Any Advise for playing I'm Getting Sentimental Over You?

[frankgalante]

Hi Everyone , this is my first post here, i discovered this forum a couple of days ago, and i ve spent hours reading post about techniques and tips for playing.
I wanted to ask to those of you who play a lot of Jazz: is there any advise for playing the Tommy Dorsey Solo of Im Getting sentimental over you? a few weeks ago i decided i wanted to learn how to play that solo (i im not that used to play that high, im 3rd trombone in my band) and i m struggling with those high notes, especially cracking that high Db in 2nd position, also im getting some trouble phrasing between 6th and 7th partials.
maybe this is more of a "high register tips" post, but focusing on this solo because i think its a very unqiue, soft, and expressive stlye of playing, and also to put an example.
i have a Yamaha YSL-354 trombone and a Bach 7C mp

Thank you for those of you who answer and i ll be taking note of your tips!

[BGuttman]

There are actually two "official" solos: one in the key of D and one in the key of Bb. The Bb version tops out at high A an might be a better starting point.

The solo should be really smooth; no strong articulations within a phrase.

Try making a very gentle crescendo as you go up.

Your regular high range should top out at least a third above the highest note for control.

Good luck.

[Enelson]

There’s a lot you can get out of that solo stylistically without having to play it in Dorsey’s key.

Learn to sing it so you really can hear the intervals and then start on a lower note so you feel comfortable in the higher parts. Listen to the phrasing, vibrato and legato style. Try playing with no tongue or very little tongue to make it as smooth as possible.

As you work up in range, play with very soft dynamics and don’t force the high notes. Focus on control not volume.

Rest as much as you play. If you keep missing a high note, stop and go back to it another day. Have patience! And have fun digging into the style!

[frankgalante]

There are actually two "official" solos: one in the key of D and one in the key of Bb. The Bb version tops out at high A an might be a better starting point.

The solo should be really smooth; no strong articulations within a phrase.

Try making a very gentle crescendo as you go up.

Your regular high range should top out at least a third above the highest note for control.

Good luck.

Thanks! I didnt knew that was another version of that solo (i ve listened to that song a lot). i will search for it and im more certain that i ll be able to handle those "not so high notes" better than the D Version in the mid term.
Although, i still have some trouble in that flat partial. i can play it with a good sound, but it feels quite unstable. especially ab. I take the point of the smooth the crescnedo (i suppose you refer the first phrase) i guessing it should be so soft to the point of barely noticing it, but im sure ill discover it as i try to play it.

Thank you once again, i for sure be trying out that Bb version and see how it goes.

[baileyman]

The really big problem I run into is a too slow tempo. It's a dance--it moves along. Any difficulty with it gets magnified at a slower tempo. Encouraging the leader to get the tempo up would be a good idea. (This is even more important with Song of India.)

[BGuttman]

The really big problem I run into is a too slow tempo. It's a dance--it moves along. Any difficulty with it gets magnified at a slower tempo. Encouraging the leader to get the tempo up would be a good idea. (This is even more important with Song of India.)

The nice part is that the soloist here can set the tempo with the 4 lead-in quarters. When I did it I tried to get a nice buckle polisher pace. It's no Lindy.

[timothy42b]

There are actually two "official" solos: one in the key of D and one in the key of Bb. The Bb version tops out at high A an might be a better starting point.

I think there's a video out there with Doug playing it in F.

[GGJazz]

Hi Frankgalante.

In my opinion , does not matter how high you play it , rather than how beautiful you play it .
So , I think that could be better if you play this tune in a key that allow you to perform the top high note in a really comfortable way . This key will be related to your' personal high range , of course . The top note of the melody should not be around your limit .

This piece can be played in many ways , as others Jazz standards tunes.

Here a Jack Teagarden' take , in the key of C . Very slow tempo , Jazz ballad style , added improvised lines , etc.



Regards
Giancarlo

[frankgalante]

There’s a lot you can get out of that solo stylistically without having to play it in Dorsey’s key.

Learn to sing it so you really can hear the intervals and then start on a lower note so you feel comfortable in the higher parts. Listen to the phrasing, vibrato and legato style. Try playing with no tongue or very little tongue to make it as smooth as possible.

As you work up in range, play with very soft dynamics and don’t force the high notes. Focus on control not volume.

Rest as much as you play. If you keep missing a high note, stop and go back to it another day. Have patience! And have fun digging into the style!

Thank you for your asnwer, i m starting to learn now the Bb version which is a third below the original key and it feels way much comfortable, altohugh sometimes i miss some noted due to i still have ht other version on my head. But i ll come toghether, i felt identified with this answer since i always fall into forcing high notes which is clearly not the way. Im focusing now in control as you said. Also adding a soft crescendo when i go up.

Thank you once again for your answer!

[frankgalante]

The really big problem I run into is a too slow tempo. It's a dance--it moves along. Any difficulty with it gets magnified at a slower tempo. Encouraging the leader to get the tempo up would be a good idea. (This is even more important with Song of India.)

I Agree, sometime when i try to play the original version a little bit more faster, results are generally better, as i m not able to mantain that high Db for now, and as you mentioned in Song of inda that even more crucial. I ll try to work a faster version on Bb and see how it goes!

[frankgalante]

Hi Frankgalante.

In my opinion , does not matter how high you play it , rather than how beautiful you play it .
So , I think that could be better if you play this tune in a key that allow you to perform the top high note in a really comfortable way . This key will be related to your' personal high range , of course . The top note of the melody should not be around your limit .

This piece can be played in many ways , as others Jazz standards tunes.

Here a Jack Teagarden' take , in the key of C . Very slow tempo , Jazz ballad style , added improvised lines , etc.



Regards
Giancarlo

Thank you so much for answer! Sometimes its diffcult to assume you cant play the original version limited by your range, but in the end, it all comes down to practie and taking the time to increase it, before playing a song in that register. I didint know of this version of Jack Teagarden. Its beautiful! very jazzy and with more coloru than the TD version. and it sounds very good in C!

Thank you for your answer and taking the time!

[AndrewMeronek]

There's a sax soli in the middle of the tune (at least, the original) that needs to be basically a medium bounce-like tempo. The saxes will thank you if you set that up right from the start with your 4 quarter notes. Those 4 quarter notes need to be in tempo, otherwise the rhythm section will have to "recover" from a more "rubato" start, which would need to be practiced as an ensemble. Conversely, if the rhythm section misinterprets a "rubato" trombone start as the actual tempo, the tempo will end up being all wrong. There's plenty of time to push and pull with the melody after it gets started.

[afugate]

I think there's a video out there with Doug playing it in F.

Possibly this?


--Andy in OKC

[Doug Elliott]

Possibly.
I learned it when I was in about 8th or 9th grade, in D. I never liked it in Bb.
I think the comments about dance tempo are a bit misplaced for a kid just starting to learn the melody.
My suggestion is to play it down an octave, in D. There's plenty of important "trombone stuff" to learn that way, and you can still play it with a Dorsey recording. Meanwhile, some lessons would be in order, to learn how to play high range.

[BrassSection]

In the just for fun department after getting comfortable playing it on trombone I tried it on trumpet. Dropped an octave and put a mute in, wow, I liked it! Actually like playing it on my euph best though.

[tbdana]

This is a deceptively hard tune to play well and in style. People don't realize what a badass Tommy Dorsey was. Truly elite player. And this tune is iconic and requires more technique than is obvious, so you've chosen a project that will be a challenge.

For me, hitting the notes is the least of it. If you're struggling to play the notes, you may not be ready for this tune. Probably good to play it in a lower key, for now.

Style is the whole thing with this tune. It's what makes or breaks it. Anyone can bang out the notes. But it takes a good player to play this tune in style. First thing about it is the totally liquid sound. Play it as if you are singing it; play it as a singer would sing. Use as little tonguing as possible, and the tonguing you do should be very soft. To truly play that style you need a fast vibrato that goes above and below the pitch, and is done entirely with the wrist and fingers. And unlike modern usage, vibrato needs to start right away and be used on every "long" note (even quarter notes on slower tempos). A more modern interpretation uses a slower vibrato only on notes longer than two beats.

Do NOT crescendo. I disagree with Bruce on this issue (though he gets the rest right IMHO). A crescendo is stylistically wrong, and it's a crutch. The key to playing this tune well and in style is by playing the whole thing softly, smoothly, and the same volume. That high C# should be no louder than any other note, and indeed you need to think of just gently touching it, not powering it out. It's all about good control. Indeed, to anyone who knows the trombone, playing that first phrase evenly and without a crescendo is much more impressive. It's more about solid breathing, and maintaining consistent air flow right to the ends of the phrases. Support that C# with your diaphragm and air speed, not with a crescendo.

Good luck! Great choice, and will knock 'em dead once you get it down.

[VJOFan]

Listen a lot. The slide vibrato of Tommy Dorsey is very particular. That sound is also dependent on a small bore set up or understanding that it has to sound delicate and unstrained.

However, after many years of thinking of this song in just one way, I bought my first Jimmy Knepper album.

His version is quite revelatory- there are more ways to beautifully skin a cat than one. Still, learning it the Dorsey way is like learning an orchestral excerpt. You gain a particular "trombonistic" ability.

[Macbone1]

I think there's a video out there with Doug playing it in F.
[/quote]

I can believe it.
This advice is probably too advanced for you at this point, but if you can play it HIGHER than the required key, the original will feel "easy". At home I play this solo in Eb and I even play "Marie" in D, just to toughen myself up for the off chance I might have to perform them.

[BrassedOn]

Before playing Getting Sentimental work on Marie. And use a lot of natural slurs instead of tonguing everywhere possible, this helped me get smoothness and control. And even though I might legato tongue in performance most of Marie and Sentimental, shedding just with lip slurs and fast slide movement really helped me.

Some descending lines like bar 5 are about all lip slurs in long positions, even in performance to get the smoothness.

Oh and play D in 4th a lot so you can really work the vibrato.

Listen and sing to get the pitches in your head.

Memorize as soon as you can 4 bars at a time, get off the paper

To work up endurance, When you’re practicing along to the recording or a YouTube background track, play 2 bars and rest 2 or play 4 bars and rest 4, then rest. Then rest 2 play 2 or rest 4 play 4 next time to cover all,the passages.

Once that gets going, then try playing it out of thin air, like stop what ever you’re practicing for your regular stuff, and try to play the bridge from memory with not much mental prep. Eventually you’ll want to be able to play it cold staring anywhere in the song.

[boneapart]

Here's the Bb version that you'll hear most community big bands playing. This arrangement by Johnny Warrington is out of print, but I can advise you how it may be obtained:

[Vegasbound]

I’m with Doug, never liked it in Bb, sounds turgid …. Good thing about YouTube is you can listen to recordings of the great players and their interpretations of it, if your trying to play it as TD then as others have said it’s harder to play than it sounds or people think…