Removing Oversleeves from a Conn Slide

[Mamaposaune]

Has anyone removed the oversleeves from a Conn 88H slide? What effect did it have on playability? Is it a difficult modification? Would it be sacrilege on a late Elkhart vintage slide?
My favorite horns have lightweight slides. Nickle outers on my Bachs; brass outers with no oversleeves on my Courtois bass. I just like the feel, response, and overall balance of the horn.
Recently I picked up a very responsive newer 88H bell section to pair with my vintage slide, and I like almost everything about it, especially the tone.
However it is a little slide-heavy, meaning it requires extra effort to hold it in a horizontal playing position. I even put a counterweight on it, which helps but it makes the horn heavier and (maybe my imagination) a bit less resonant.
In addition, there is quite a bit of wear on the oversleeves while the rest of the slide looks pretty good - cosmetically remiving the oversleeves will be a better match to the near-new bell section.

[JohnL]

Are you talking about ferrules or oversleeves?

[Burgerbob]

Are you talking about ferrules or oversleeves?

Oversleeves, I would think.

[Doug Elliott]

"there is quite a bit of wear on the ferrules while the rest of the slide looks pretty good"
Which is one of the reasons they're there... I have one old horn with no sleeves, and the brass tube is worn all the way through.

Sound, balance, and structural integrity are all important in their own ways

[tbonesullivan]

If you like the sound with it as it is now, removing the oversleeves will generally change the response a bit due to the reduced weight. Also depending on how much wear there is on the outer tubes, you could compromise the structural integrity of the slide.

There's also the question of whether the sound coming out of the horn is affected that much, or just whether it feels more "alive" to you less weight on the outer slide. Also there is a difference with Nickel Silver outers and Brass, regardless of whether there are oversleeves (soldered or drawn in) or not. It's a harder material and definitely does respond differently.

[Mamaposaune]

Yes - the oversleeves are what I meant. Post corrected! I should have known better.

[Mamaposaune]

If you like the sound with it as it is now, removing the oversleeves will generally change the response a bit due to the reduced weight. Also depending on how much wear there is on the outer tubes, you could compromise the structural integrity of the slide.

There's also the question of whether the sound coming out of the horn is affected that much, or just whether it feels more "alive" to you less weight on the outer slide. Also there is a difference with Nickel Silver outers and Brass, regardless of whether there are oversleeves (soldered or drawn in) or not. It's a harder material and definitely does respond differently.

I think I would expect a change in sound, and I realize it's hard to predict whether I will like it more or less. I am sure that I will like the lighter weight and better balance.
I like my Courtois bass, which came with a lightweight brass slide (no oversleeves)

[dj4eagle]

For posterity, I had this done to my stock 88HO's .547 slide. The horn did feel somewhat different after the surgery, but I can't recall in what way (I was also using a different mouthpiece than I was used to at the time), and it plays great today when we'll adjusted.

100% worth it. Slide feels much closer to the LW one on my 48H. The tech also installed a smaller diameter outer slide grip which further reduced weight.

[hyperbolica]

Two things to consider. The slide-to-bell balance ratio is built into the 88h. Light bell, heavy slide is actually part of the success of the 88h. Most light slides are made from the stiffer nickel silver, which changes the sound, and is usually accompanied by a different bell design to balance those changes.

On the other hand, I have a 525 slide for my 88h with no oversleeves, and I love how it plays.

If you're having wear problems, you can try a leather wrap. Also consider asymmetrical oversleeves - long on bottom short on top or none on top. I've seen both.

I don't think this mod would ruin an 88h except maybe in the eyes of a collector. If you're playing the horn, i wouldn't worry about what other people think.

[Matt K]

I found that on my setup that was closely resembling an 88, I found a shallower mouthpiece worked really well. I was using usually an E cup but sometimes C+. Megumi Kanda uses a D cup on her Greenhoe “C”, which is their take on an 88 style horn. The leadpipe on these tends to be fairly open, like a 2.5 in shires terminology, or so I’ve been told… so you can put a little more “resistance” or shallowness to lighten up the sound a little.

[BoNeLife]

Hi. I’ve played slides like this before.
Without over sleeves the sound becomes more broad, slightly less efficient. It’s a fun sound.
Make sure to make a guard so you don’t wear a hole through the tubes.

[Elow]

I enjoy lightweight slides. If you have reactive sweat I would cut out part of the oversleeves to make a guard. I don’t understand the need for oversleeves besides the protective aspects. I think my lighter bells play even better with a lightweight slide. My tubes are gold brass, that might be the reason why. Everyone who has played my bass with any setup has really liked it.

[dukesboneman]

During COVID I decided to do some surgery on one of my Bach 12`s
I contacted the great local tech and said what I wanted to do.
The horn had a standard weight slide. He removed the sleeves from the slide.
I search the entire country for a light weight nickel silver Bah 12 hand slide crook. NOBODY had one !!!
except Brad Close .
The slide feeels great . SOOOOO light and fast. Lighter than a Bach nickel slide

[jjenkins]

One of my Bach 42s with Rotax valves has a Corp slide which I had the Michael sleeves removed. I absolutely love the way the slide plays and feels. Very resonant and quick.