New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

NBischoff · Post by **NBischoff** » Mon Mar 13, 2023 2:33 pm

Here's a clip of Chris Glassman trying out the new Yamaha bass trombone prototype along with a quick write-up from his instagram.

If you were at ATW and and also got a chance to play this horn, I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on it. I'm hoping it will be available to try at ITF as well.

Post by **Matt K** » Mon Mar 13, 2023 3:54 pm

I thought the basses played pretty well. I liked all of the screw bells on the Yamaha stand more than the non screw bells… except for the basses. But the newer model, yellow brass without the screw bell played great. I loved the built in thumb supports they added too. I didn’t have a chance to swap slides. I think a 578 lower could have put it on par with my Shires to be honest. A 562/578 with the screw bell may have been good too. In the lower registers it didn’t speak as easily as I’m used to when playing quietly or at a moderate dynamic. I can’t remember, do they have sealable leadpipes? If so, it dawns on me I didn’t try any alternatives to what was in there so that might also have been a consideration. I was also playing an Elliott 10 shank, and an 8 may have been a better fit.

Finetales · Post by **Finetales** » Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:02 pm

Interesting! Hopefully they have some at NAMM I can try.

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:29 pm

Looks like Glassman normally plays a Yamaha 613H with a screw bell modification? I am really interested about what improvements they made to the valves, given that they had pretty much left their bass trombone valves the same for decades. Maybe more material machined out of the rotors?

Post by **Matt K** » Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:31 pm

That’s what the rep told me. A little bit “opened up” and a few tweaks to the geometry. They also had a new set of linkages iirc.

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:38 pm

Matt K wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:31 pm That’s what the rep told me. A little bit “opened up” and a few tweaks to the geometry. They also had a new set of linkages iirc.

Yeah, looks like they may be retiring the thumb paddle type, which was just a thing that sticks onto the bar they have used for decades. Should be interesting to see.

ZacharyThornton · Post by **ZacharyThornton** » Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:17 pm

On a different note than the horn, Chris is a beast!! Love his playing. Not many bass bone players can play bop like he can. (Can’t think of anyone right now)

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:57 pm

ZacharyThornton wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:17 pm On a different note than the horn, Chris is a beast!! Love his playing. Not many bass bone players can play bop like he can. (Can’t think of anyone right now)

He's a great player, and that is a great sound. Looks like he's playing a Pickett 1.75, which is "only" 2.81mm, but still is hitting those low notes great.

spencercarran · Post by **spencercarran** » Mon Mar 13, 2023 9:53 pm

But it looks like they kept the valve wrap from the 830, meaning no G tuning out of the box...

bassclef · Post by **bassclef** » Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:18 am

Looks like the horn Chris plays in the video has a gold tuning slide also. I know they're shipping gold tuning slides with the cut-bell 891ZD. Not sure if that's true for the 882OD but they did have a gold slide on the 20th anniversary model.

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:13 pm

bassclef wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:18 am Looks like the horn Chris plays in the video has a gold tuning slide also. I know they're shipping gold tuning slides with the cut-bell 891ZD. Not sure if that's true for the 882OD but they did have a gold slide on the 20th anniversary model.

Yamaha uses Gold tinted lacquer currently, so it can be tough to tell. The 891ZD's pictures I have seen don't seem to show a gold brass tuning slide, but it is harder to tell even without colored lacquer. The ones pictured for Chuck Levin's and Thomanns both look to have yellow brass tuning slides.

bassclef · Post by **bassclef** » Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:46 pm

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:13 pm
bassclef wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:18 am Looks like the horn Chris plays in the video has a gold tuning slide also. I know they're shipping gold tuning slides with the cut-bell 891ZD. Not sure if that's true for the 882OD but they did have a gold slide on the 20th anniversary model.
Yamaha uses Gold tinted lacquer currently, so it can be tough to tell. The 891ZD's pictures I have seen don't seem to show a gold brass tuning slide, but it is harder to tell even without colored lacquer. The ones pictured for Chuck Levin's and Thomanns both look to have yellow brass tuning slides.

That's true - the pics on Yamaha's site and the others I looked at after reading your post, don't seem to reflect this. I was messaging with a newly minted Yamaha artist recently about a mouthpiece he was selling and saw he was playing an 891ZD. He's where I got the info that they come with gold brass tuning slides now. I got the impression that was standard, but perhaps it's an option?

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:50 pm

bassclef wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:46 pmThat's true - the pics on Yamaha's site and the others I looked at after reading your post, don't seem to reflect this. I was messaging with a newly minted Yamaha artist recently about a mouthpiece he was selling and saw he was playing an 891ZD. He's where I got the info that they come with gold brass tuning slides now. I got the impression that was standard, but perhaps it's an option?

If they are a Yamaha artist it's possible they special requested it, or maybe made it just for them? It would be nice if they offer that as an option.

sirisobhakya · Post by **sirisobhakya** » Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:02 pm

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:50 pm
bassclef wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:46 pmThat's true - the pics on Yamaha's site and the others I looked at after reading your post, don't seem to reflect this. I was messaging with a newly minted Yamaha artist recently about a mouthpiece he was selling and saw he was playing an 891ZD. He's where I got the info that they come with gold brass tuning slides now. I got the impression that was standard, but perhaps it's an option?
If they are a Yamaha artist it's possible they special requested it, or maybe made it just for them? It would be nice if they offer that as an option.

The catalog (in Japanese) states that it is possible to order the tuning slide in gold brass. However it would take 4-5 month. And if you are not in Japan it can be quite difficult. I am trying to order a gold brass tuning slide for my 830 right now. Too many phone calls from Yamaha Music Thailand.

BassboneJ25 · Post by **BassboneJ25** » Wed Mar 15, 2023 4:20 pm

I thought the uncut version of this trombone was amazing. One of the top horns there for sure!

JGoldBone · Post by **JGoldBone** » Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:06 am

bassclef wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:46 pm
tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:13 pm Yamaha uses Gold tinted lacquer currently, so it can be tough to tell. The 891ZD's pictures I have seen don't seem to show a gold brass tuning slide, but it is harder to tell even without colored lacquer. The ones pictured for Chuck Levin's and Thomanns both look to have yellow brass tuning slides.
That's true - the pics on Yamaha's site and the others I looked at after reading your post, don't seem to reflect this. I was messaging with a newly minted Yamaha artist recently about a mouthpiece he was selling and saw he was playing an 891ZD. He's where I got the info that they come with gold brass tuning slides now. I got the impression that was standard, but perhaps it's an option?

The 891ZD comes with a gold tint lacquered, yellow brass tuning slide. there is a special order .500" bore slide model with the smaller 7.5" bell (897Z) that comes from the factory with a gold brass tuning slide. The new bass model and all variations will come standard with a gold brass tuning slide.

JGoldBone · Post by **JGoldBone** » Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:09 am

Finetales wrote: ↑Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:02 pm Interesting! Hopefully they have some at NAMM I can try.

Yes there will be at least one version on the NAMM display to try.

bassclef · Post by **bassclef** » Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:32 pm

JGoldBone wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:06 am
bassclef wrote: ↑Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:46 pm
That's true - the pics on Yamaha's site and the others I looked at after reading your post, don't seem to reflect this. I was messaging with a newly minted Yamaha artist recently about a mouthpiece he was selling and saw he was playing an 891ZD. He's where I got the info that they come with gold brass tuning slides now. I got the impression that was standard, but perhaps it's an option?
The 891ZD comes with a gold tint lacquered, yellow brass tuning slide. there is a special order .500" bore slide model with the smaller 7.5" bell (897Z) that comes from the factory with a gold brass tuning slide. The new bass model and all variations will come standard with a gold brass tuning slide.

Thanks for the info.

I just read your profile. Welcome, thanks for joining the forum!

JGoldBone · Post by **JGoldBone** » Wed Apr 05, 2023 1:11 pm

bassclef wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:32 pm
JGoldBone wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:06 am The 891ZD comes with a gold tint lacquered, yellow brass tuning slide. there is a special order .500" bore slide model with the smaller 7.5" bell (897Z) that comes from the factory with a gold brass tuning slide. The new bass model and all variations will come standard with a gold brass tuning slide.
Thanks for the info.

I just read your profile. Welcome, thanks for joining the forum!

Anytime! Happy to be here.

hornbuilder · Post by **hornbuilder** » Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:01 pm

Anytime! Happy to be here.

Welcome! Would you be willing to put your name in your post signature? I always find it better if we know who is making comments, as opposed to an anonymous handle. (That is the one big issue I have with this forum. But I will now get off my soapbox. As long as you get off my lawn!! Grumble grumble

)

MStarke · Post by **MStarke** » Thu Apr 06, 2023 2:21 am

This prototype seems very interesting! I live only 20 minutes away from Yamaha Europe and have never gone there. I guess I really should do it one day.

hornbuilder wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:01 pm

Anytime! Happy to be here.
Welcome! Would you be willing to put your name in your post signature? I always find it better if we know who is making comments, as opposed to an anonymous handle. (That is the one big issue I have with this forum. But I will now get off my soapbox. As long as you get off my lawn!! Grumble grumble )

Totally agreed! I also totally prefer communicating when I know the real name - and this could also help some of the non-pleasant discussions that take place here. My profile name and website are telling it already, but I will also put my full name in the signature now.

chrisglassman1 · Post by **chrisglassman1** » Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:08 pm

Just wanted to chime in with my experiences. Thanks for sharing the video, and for the kind words!

I do regularly play a 613H with a screw bell conversion from Josh Landress. I can report that these new horns have significant improvements in valve blow and response (I've always been partial to rotors myself), and the screw bell from the factory (I obviously play a screw bell mod for my main horn, so that's what I'm used to) allows for even more warmth and response in the sound. I got the chance to play both the yellow and gold brass (yellow brass in the video), and both provided a nice change of color, I may prefer the gold brass but I'd need time with both to be sure! Overall, I would be super excited to get some time with one of these when they're in production, if you're at NAMM or ITF, I would give them a spin, pop a few low Cs for me!

Chris Glassman

Finetales · Post by **Finetales** » Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:42 pm

I played the 835 (no screw bell, they only had the fixed bell model) at NAMM yesterday. Definitely a noticeable improvement over the 830, with a similar feel. Response felt especially improved. Overall still not my cup of tea, but I have a feeling that people who like the 830 are going to really love the 835. Nice improvement in the Gb paddle design as well, very comfortable.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Fri Apr 14, 2023 9:44 pm

I played it, and it honestly just felt like one of the better 830s.

Boneuphtoner · Post by **Boneuphtoner** » Tue May 09, 2023 2:10 pm

It looks like this is no longer a prototype, and the 830 has been discontinued. Interesting that the Yamaha website says the screw bell models do not include a case. They have both traditional and screw bell versions on the Yamaha USA website. The built in hand rest looks a lot like the Edwards bullet brace.

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Tue May 09, 2023 3:00 pm

Yep, some interesting food for thought in there. From the looks of it, they changed the rotors to be "D-shaped" inside instead of having round ports, in an effort to get more sound through the horn? Also they say that the mouthpiece insertion depth, which had been a thing since the 613H, has now been made "better", but there is no mention of exactly how much less the insertion depth is, or whether any real changes were made to the leadpipe design.

I'm also kinda intrigued by the use of a double ended spring on the F trigger instead of the single sided. As for the changing of the other end of the F-attachment linkage to a miniball style... I always wondered why they didn't do that years ago, instead of the weird dual-axis design they have used for decades. I wonder if this change will percolate to the other members of the Xeno line.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical ... index.html

WGWTR180 · Post by **WGWTR180** » Tue May 09, 2023 3:44 pm

9K????

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Tue May 09, 2023 3:51 pm

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:44 pm9K????

Yeah.. I saw that, which is weird because no other trombones that I looked at have an MSRP even listed... and that price is uh... what?

The detachable bell horns are only $200 more.. but... no case comes with them. Which is a damn shame because Yamaha designed some damn near bulletproof cases in the 90s.. I would have loved to see what they would come up with for a cut bell trombone.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Tue May 09, 2023 4:58 pm

Boneuphtoner wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 2:10 pm It looks like this is no longer a prototype, and the 830 has been discontinued.

Yaaaay!

What were they thinking with that design?!? Based on the video the guys mouthpiece is ether very long, built up, or they fixed the leadpipe.

"The ability to put more air into the horn"

More like, the ability for any input to actually be efficient and resonate. The 830 takes ALL the air and gives you no output lol. I hope they fixed the stuffiness when using both valves.

No bell specs. I wonder if it is unsoldered.

In any case, it would be great to try it. If they actually fixed the "efficient feel, ability to put more air through the instrument, with a more robust sound" it might be the greatest bass trombone of all time. For $9K it better be!

Post by **Matt K** » Tue May 09, 2023 5:45 pm

My recollection is it's soldered bell bead. I tried it at ATW. I didn't like the non-cut bells, but the ones that were cut were really good. I suspect the 9k is MSRP and the actual price people pay will be less than that.

The 835 also has a really nice "bullet brace" built into the linkage setup, too.

spencercarran · Post by **spencercarran** » Tue May 09, 2023 7:54 pm

That's same ballpark as MSRP on a standard rotor valve Bach 50B3, so obviously not the actual music store price.

Specs also list a new, approximately Yeo-sized mouthpiece that's supposed to come with it. Wonder what the story behind that is.

Boneuphtoner · Post by **Boneuphtoner** » Tue May 09, 2023 8:38 pm

Looks like Tomer Maschkowski had the prototype a few months ago - some really fine playing here with his Dad:

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Tue May 09, 2023 9:59 pm

Boneuphtoner wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:38 pm Looks like Tomer Maschkowski had the prototype a few months ago - some really fine playing here with his Dad:

He really is a great player, and there are videos of him playing a Cut bell 830 or maybe 830G from 3 years ago. I wonder if he was working with Yamaha on this back then (he's been a yamaha artist since 2018), or whether they saw what he'd done and decided he'd be the one to work with on the next version of the 613H/830. Also seen some pictures of him with an 830G using a Yeo mouthpiece and with one of the valve caps swapped out with the 822G style.

The new horn looks to have Brass valve caps, which is an interesting change. I wonder how much that changes things from the Nickel Silver as I usually would see on Yamaha horns.

WGWTR180 · Post by **WGWTR180** » Wed May 10, 2023 5:40 am

spencercarran wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 7:54 pm That's same ballpark as MSRP on a standard rotor valve Bach 50B3, so obviously not the actual music store price.

Specs also list a new, approximately Yeo-sized mouthpiece that's supposed to come with it. Wonder what the story behind that is.

Yes, understood, however I wouldn't pay 1 half of MSRP for a new Bach 50 these days. MSRP seems like an old way to do business. But that's just me I guess. On another point I always had problems making a 1 and 1/2G work on the Yamaha basses but if they have, indeed, "fixed" the pipe on these I'd be curious to try one.

sirisobhakya · Post by **sirisobhakya** » Wed May 10, 2023 5:44 am

Boneuphtoner wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 2:10 pm It looks like this is no longer a prototype, and the 830 has been discontinued. Interesting that the Yamaha website says the screw bell models do not include a case. They have both traditional and screw bell versions on the Yamaha USA website. The built in hand rest looks a lot like the Edwards bullet brace.

I think the 830 is only discontinued in Europe and the US. Yamaha still lists the 830 on Japanese and Thai website.

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Wed May 10, 2023 6:43 am

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:40 amYes, understood, however I wouldn't pay 1 half of MSRP for a new Bach 50 these days. MSRP seems like an old way to do business. But that's just me I guess. On another point I always had problems making a 1 and 1/2G work on the Yamaha basses but if they have, indeed, "fixed" the pipe on these I'd be curious to try one.

I'm always curious as to why people think something is "wrong" with the leadpipe used on the 613H and 830. Other trombones, such as the King Duo Gravis, were designed with a leadpipe that had a longer shank engagement as well, but no one claims that pipe needs "fixing".

WGWTR180 · Post by **WGWTR180** » Wed May 10, 2023 6:55 am

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:43 am
WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:40 amYes, understood, however I wouldn't pay 1 half of MSRP for a new Bach 50 these days. MSRP seems like an old way to do business. But that's just me I guess. On another point I always had problems making a 1 and 1/2G work on the Yamaha basses but if they have, indeed, "fixed" the pipe on these I'd be curious to try one.
I'm always curious as to why people think something is "wrong" with the leadpipe used on the 613H and 830. Other trombones, such as the King Duo Gravis, were designed with a leadpipe that had a longer shank engagement as well, but no one claims that pipe needs "fixing".

I didn't say something was wrong with the lead pipe. I was repeating what someone else said and why I put "fixed" in quotes. However many of todays mouthpieces have different shanks than what was available years ago. My favorite 1 and 1/2G goes too far into the Yamaha basses. Ask people who play Shires trombones how the lead pipes have changed since the very beginning, especially the bass pipes.

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Wed May 10, 2023 7:02 am

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:55 amI didn't say something was wrong with the lead pipe. I was repeating what someone else said and why I put "fixed" in quotes. However many of todays mouthpieces have different shanks than what was available years ago. My favorite 1 and 1/2G goes too far into the Yamaha basses. Ask people who play Shires trombones how the lead pipes have changed since the very beginning, especially the bass pipes.

I think the Duo Gravis leadpipe was an attempt to have a more continuous taper from the throat of the mouthpiece through the leadpipe. There's actually supposed to be a "step" in the receiver due to this.

I've always wondered what the reasoning Yamaha had for the larger engagement. They rarely seem to make a change without a good reason, and they made that pipe for the 613H, instead of using a pipe they already had. They also could have just taken the leadpipe, which is two piece, and shortened it from the machined receiver end. Though that's also true for the Duo Gravis design.

Now the bigger question: is the YBL-835 leadpipe really a "new" leadpipe, or did they just machine off 3-4mm from the top of the receiver on the 613H/830 leadpipe.

spencercarran · Post by **spencercarran** » Wed May 10, 2023 7:13 am

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:40 am
spencercarran wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 7:54 pm That's same ballpark as MSRP on a standard rotor valve Bach 50B3, so obviously not the actual music store price.

Specs also list a new, approximately Yeo-sized mouthpiece that's supposed to come with it. Wonder what the story behind that is.
Yes, understood, however I wouldn't pay 1 half of MSRP for a new Bach 50 these days. MSRP seems like an old way to do business. But that's just me I guess. On another point I always had problems making a 1 and 1/2G work on the Yamaha basses but if they have, indeed, "fixed" the pipe on these I'd be curious to try one.

The concept of MSRP in general does seem strange; it's not the price anyone is going to pay, it's not even a target price, it's... some marketing gimmick? I dunno. I don't buy brand-new horns so it's not relevant to me, but whatever they're doing is apparently broadly in line with industry norms.

1.5-sized pieces work fine on my 613H, despite the insertion depth being slightly nonstandard.

Digidog · Post by **Digidog** » Wed May 10, 2023 7:46 am

WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:44 pm9K????

Holy mother of cows how prices have gone insane!

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Wed May 10, 2023 8:16 am

Digidog wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:46 am
WGWTR180 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 3:44 pm9K????

Holy mother of cows how prices have gone insane!

That's just MSRP. Please stop reacting like this haha. Courtois MSRP for the original New Yorker horns was like 12k.

trombonedemon · Post by **trombonedemon** » Wed May 10, 2023 9:10 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:16 am
Digidog wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:46 am

Holy mother of cows how prices have gone insane!
That's just MSRP. Please stop reacting like this haha. Courtois MSRP for the original New Yorker horns was like 12k.

Courtois has always had a ridiculous retail price stamp. I saw one on Reverb for 2500 a bass that is, with Hagmans and an interesting looking tuning slide.

Druidman · Post by **Druidman** » Wed May 10, 2023 9:40 am

trombonedemon wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:10 am
Burgerbob wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:16 am

That's just MSRP. Please stop reacting like this haha. Courtois MSRP for the original New Yorker horns was like 12k.
Courtois has always had a ridiculous retail price stamp. I saw one on Reverb for 2500 a bass that is, with Hagmans and an interesting looking tuning slide.

Most places sell their creation bass for 7.5-8K, which is excessive

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Wed May 10, 2023 10:00 am

Druidman wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:40 amMost places sell their creation bass for 7.5-8K, which is excessive

Yeah, the Courtois stuff is definitely up there, though so is Bach, and I suspect the Courtois build quality is definitely more deserving of the price tag.

asmith · Post by **asmith** » Wed May 10, 2023 11:15 am

MAP is $5689.99
As per usual if someone is expecting you to pay MSRP for a Yamaha, then shop somewhere else that has it in stock.

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Wed May 10, 2023 3:05 pm

asmith wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 11:15 am MAP is $5689.99
As per usual if someone is expecting you to pay MSRP for a Yamaha, then shop somewhere else that has it in stock.

If only it worked that way for cars during 2022. My bank account still hurts. Do they treat you like you just paid well over MSRP for a car? NOPE.

hyperbolica · Post by **hyperbolica** » Wed May 10, 2023 3:24 pm

Boneuphtoner wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2023 8:38 pm Looks like Tomer Maschkowski had the prototype a few months ago - some really fine playing here with his Dad:

Yeah, great sound and control. Nicely done.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Wed May 10, 2023 5:06 pm

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:43 am I'm always curious as to why people think something is "wrong" with the leadpipe used on the 613H and 830. Other trombones, such as the King Duo Gravis, were designed with a leadpipe that had a longer shank engagement as well, but no one claims that pipe needs "fixing".

Because taping a mouthpiece so it sits 1/8 to 1/4 inch further out in the receiver makes the 830 play significantly better than letting the pipe eat the mouthpiece. The trigger range and low C is much less stuffy.

Even with that fix, the 830 is a very difficult and tiring bass to play, compared to, say, an Edwards 502. Especially the low C and B.

WGWTR180 · Post by **WGWTR180** » Wed May 10, 2023 5:50 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:06 pm
tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:43 am I'm always curious as to why people think something is "wrong" with the leadpipe used on the 613H and 830. Other trombones, such as the King Duo Gravis, were designed with a leadpipe that had a longer shank engagement as well, but no one claims that pipe needs "fixing".
Because taping a mouthpiece so it sits 1/8 to 1/4 inch further out in the receiver makes the 830 play significantly better than letting the pipe eat the mouthpiece. The trigger range and low C is much less stuffy.

Even with that fix, the 830 is a very difficult and tiring bass to play, compared to, say, an Edwards 502. Especially the low C and B.

Yes!!

Digidog · Post by **Digidog** » Thu May 11, 2023 3:22 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 8:16 am
Digidog wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:46 am

Holy mother of cows how prices have gone insane!
That's just MSRP. Please stop reacting like this haha. Courtois MSRP for the original New Yorker horns was like 12k.

Well I kind of did the Drama Queen stunt there....I'll admit that.

But since I'm on the lookout for an upper-tier medium bore horn, new or used, I can't help but gawk at the increases I see in both used and new horns. In just over a year, the price increase for some horns at Thomann, as a point of reference, is between (the equivalent of) $1200-3000. The later figure is for the Courtois AC551 basses, which went from slightly above €7000 to well over €10,000 (I also have to adjust for currency conversion losses, since Sweden doesn't have the Euro). Other brands, like Shires, seem to not have increased as much in prices, but nevertheless have increases of around $1500-2000.

I know you in the U.S. have, and use, the distinction between the different price quotas there are, but this is not - really - how markets work for us Europeans. Theoretically, we have room to wiggle and haggle for new products, but not in the sense and the practice you pursue across the Atlantic channel. So for me, stated and quoted prices are more firm and definitive than for you in the U.S.

Hence my drama.....