32h with f attachment vs 3b w/f

[hyperbolica]

Has anyone ever put an f (or g) attachment on a 32h? I recently widened my 32h slide and now it plays great and it's not miserable to play. So of course I want to push my luck with a valve. Quintet playing really needs an f attachment, at least for me, and I like a smaller bore for quintet to stay out of the way of the horn.

I'll probably get a spare bell to do this.

I'd be willing to trade my Yamaha 350c or 455 for a 32h in good condition.

Alternatively, does anyone play a 3b w/f with a quintet? It's been a while since i had one, maybe I can avoid cutting up a horn by just using something already proven. The brighter sound might suit this group better.

Anyway, ideas welcome.

[Burgerbob]

I'd absolutely feel comfortable on my 3B/F in a lighter, smaller sounding quintet (perhaps with bass trombone on the bottom).

[sf105]

Not with an F but I’ve used a silver 3B in a quintet and it’s been fine. Hate to see a good 32h cut up.

[Vegasbound]

3b/f

[Matt K]

My 607F with a 500/525 slide would be amazing for quintet work. I’ve never used it in that capacity though.

Is the 32H neck pipe the same as some of the other Conn small bores? You might be able to set the 32H up to be modular and find a donor neck pipe to avoid doing anything terribly irrevocable to the 32H. Or, of course, get a32H bell that has neck pipe damage that you’d feel more comfortable chopping up. I’ve got a Conn corprion that I’m going to take the bell off of. I could get you the test for a good price.

Another alternate could be to make modular and have a new neck pipe fabricated. You’d still need the tuning slide receiver and the slide receiver parts. But someone like Brad Close can make a neck pipe for the smaller section that will be needed when the F attachment is present.

[MrHCinDE]

I’ve played my 3B/F in quintet and as 1st trombone in a tentet. Mine has an unlacquered bell and I think it has a bit more flexibility of sound than my straight 3B of the same vintage, which is lacquered.

3B/F should be easy to find used, if it doesn’t work out it should be as easy to sell on.

I’m thinking of using parts from a trashed Besson .525” which is compatible with a King 3B+ to get a .508”/.525” slide for my 3B+ and compatible Besson 737 Bell Section (with F valve). I’d need new inners and outers and the crook may need a bit of adjustment to accept a .508” upper slide instead of the original .525” so am not yet convinced whether it’d be worth it. If I went ahead with it, I would think that horn would work nicely for quintet.

[Trav1s]

My 607F with a 500/525 slide would be amazing for quintet work. I’ve never used it in that capacity though.

Is the 32H neck pipe the same as some of the other Conn small bores? You might be able to set the 32H up to be modular and find a donor neck pipe to avoid doing anything terribly irrevocable to the 32H. Or, of course, get a32H bell that has neck pipe damage that you’d feel more comfortable chopping up. I’ve got a Conn corprion that I’m going to take the bell off of. I could get you the test for a good price.

Another alternate could be to make modular and have a new neck pipe fabricated. You’d still need the tuning slide receiver and the slide receiver parts. But someone like Brad Close can make a neck pipe for the smaller section that will be needed when the F attachment is present.

The tenon/receiver is shared with other .522" horns. At one point I had a 32H, 50H, and 79H. The 50H slide was narrower than the 79H slide and it felt tight on the neck for me. Swapping the 32H slide as downright uncomfortable and I'm not a big guy.

I'd hunt down a 50H (or 79H) bell section and experiment with it. Even with the wider slide, I am still skeptical of neck clearance.

[harrisonreed]

While I love my 3B/F, I would never use it in a BQ setting. But you're playing pop arrangements right? Maybe it would be perfect for that.

[Matt K]

I think a 607 would be more suitable than a 3B for BQ. Between the larger bore and the unsoldered bell bead, it’s a little bit less edgy than the 3B or at least the two I compared that was my impression. Or 608 with the red bell.

[Finetales]

I've played my 3BF in a brass quintet a few times and it worked wonderfully. It can absolutely play with a light legit sound perfect for that setting with the right approach and mouthpiece. The 3BF can do everything.

Of course now that I have a 607, I would probably use that. But I had absolutely no complaints (nor did the players in the BQ I used it in) about using the 3BF in that setting.

[hyperbolica]

I think a 607 would be more suitable than a 3B for BQ. Between the larger bore and the unsoldered bell bead, it’s a little bit less edgy than the 3B or at least the two I compared that was my impression. Or 608 with the red bell.

I've already got a 79h and 32h plus the 455g and 1050. They all play dark except the 1050. I'm looking for a little brighter sound to keep out of the French horn players way. Definitely need a trigger. Maybe i can borrow a 3bf to avoid buying another horn i don't need. I am a little intrigued by the 607/8 though.

I've played my 3BF in a brass quintet a few times and it worked wonderfully. It can absolutely play with a light legit sound perfect for that setting with the right approach and mouthpiece. The 3BF can do everything.

Of course now that I have a 607, I would probably use that. But I had absolutely no complaints (nor did the players in the BQ I used it in) about using the 3BF in that setting.

Can you say why you prefer the 607?

[Finetales]

Compared to the 3BF, the 607 sounds just a bit broader and easier to keep that "light legit" sound at higher volumes, which would be good for a brass quintet that lights it up. They are pretty close though...after all, the slide is pretty much the only difference.

[Matt K]

The 79 and the Yamahas all have the larger tuning slide shared or similar to their larger bore counterpart iirc. The 607 and 3BF both have the same, smaller tuning slide. So if you’re after a little brightness, both will probably be a step in the right direction and may be why you like the 32H since it is also a smaller (and narrower as someone pointed out)tuning slide.

The tuning slide and bell throat seem to make a huge difference to me though admittedly isolating that variable is quite a tricky matter.

The 32H leadpipe is really great though. I’ve got one in my 607F with the 500 upper. The 607 pipe is pretty edgy, or at leas the one I had was. But still could be what you’re after, it works well on the 607 overall. If I still had a single bore one though, I’d probably try a Bach 36 or Shires 2 on it. Actually… a 607F with a large shank leadpipe option like a Shires MT2 might also be pretty slick… but I’m getting into pretty ridiculous territory.

[Finetales]

Not all 607/608 leadpipes are the same, as Aidan can tell you. Mine feels just like my 3BF, just a little bigger.

[Thrawn22]

Find a 50H bell section, cannibalize the valve wrap, then make your 32H modular.

[hyperbolica]

Another thing I thought of was using my newly widened 32h slide on my 79h bell. That actually works better than it used to (before the widening). It's ok, but not a big improvement on either horn. 607/608 sounds tempting, mainly because of the price you can get those for, but I don't need anything else in the 525 range.

My 32h has been buffed all to hell and back, and then relacquered. I'm not usually much for refinished horns like this, but I happened into it at a time when my will was weak... I wouldn't hesitate to cut this horn if I thought it would be an improvement because it's definitely a player more than a collector, which is why I've already widened the slide.

I think I'm going to go the 3bf route. I don't have any King horns, and a nice 3b would be a great addition.

[hyperbolica]

So I got a 3bf. Kind of rough. Valve works but should be replaced. Slide works but is rough. It came off the UPS truck straight into the shower, and then right to quintet rehearsal. Immediately the horn player heard it was a brighter instrument. I noticed i was tuning to the trumpets instead of the horn. The whole goal was to stop covering the horn with the bone because the sounds were too similar.

The 3b sound lends itself to this quintet better than any of the other much darker instruments I've played. First impressions are that the 3b seems a bit crass and hard to wrangle intonation wise. Many notes are higher than on other horns. It was very satisfying to play so connected to the trumpets. You could hear the similarities in timbre and articulation.

I'm going to have to learn how to control the 3b, its a completely different animal. Maybe a bigger mouthpiece. Maybe a brass slide instead of nickel silver.. To me it changes my whole perspective on the group. The sound moves from being very centered on the mid range to leaning toward the higher end.

The 32h is a fun horn especially with the widened slide, but it might sit in the case for a while while I figure out how to rein in this 3b.

[Matt K]

Leadpipe swap could definitely help. The 3B pipe is weirdly tight. Overall, for commercial it ends up working obviously. The 32H replica in 508 works great. For this use case, the copper would be the first thing I’d try. The description of the pipe being that it focuses an unfocused horn is true (especially the Yamaha student models) but on a 3B it’s kind of the opposite - takes a little bit of edge off while retaining brilliance in my experience.

Could join the xxx/525 King club too

[Burgerbob]

I'd just get more used to it. My 3B/F with a 5GS sounds great as is.

[hyperbolica]

Leadpipe swap could definitely help. The 3B pipe is weirdly tight. Overall, for commercial it ends up working obviously. The 32H replica in 508 works great. For this use case, the copper would be the first thing I’d try. The description of the pipe being that it focuses an unfocused horn is true (especially the Yamaha student models) but on a 3B it’s kind of the opposite - takes a little bit of edge off while retaining brilliance in my experience.

Could join the xxx/525 King club too

My under-the-bed hiding place is already spilling out into a closet. I only really need probably 3 trombones, but I've got... 12? ... now? I swore 4 horns ago that I'd stop buying stuff. Now I have all these horns I can't get rid of because they're too ~weird or customized or whatever. I don't really need a 608. But then I didn't really need any of the other stuff I have. And I do love me some 525... If I can sell my 455g and 350c, maybe I'll get a 608. I do it mainly out of curiosity, and that's a tough itch to stop scratching.

With the 3b it seems you get all the brightness without the constricted bore size of say a 24h. I still found myself needing to exhale at the end of phrases in quintet rehearsal, though. Swapping out hardware will get me to a certain point, but I'm going to have to spend some time on this horn to figure it out. It's a different beast from the darkness I've been playing.

I plugged in a DE E cup instead of the D into the 3b, and it mellowed out fine. I'm already going to have to replace the rotor and get a slide job on this horn, maybe I should just have them loosen the leadpipe while they're there. The mouthpiece you already own is an easier (and cheaper) fix than the black box the leadpipe can turn into. It's always cool to have the option to swap pipes, but I find that once I pick a pipe, I tend to stick with it. As opposed to mouthpieces, which I tend to swap out every other week.

[Matt K]

Just swap out the 455 lower for you King 3B lower! (Lengths may vary…) I think I have my 607F upper slide, w/ leadpipe in it. Not sure if lengths are different on upper and lower on the 3B. I suspect they are. But if it is useful I can send it to you at cost.

The Yamaha you have definitely are approximate the same (likely more) than a 607 or 608. Perhaps you can feed two birds with one scone and trade one out. Selling a 3BF is probably easier than a 350C or a 455.

Id be more reluctant to recommend the leadpipe swap on a 3B since it’s a two piece and can be a little tricky. Having done the exact thing to my Franken 607 and a King 3B recently though… that specific pipe is a good match. To be fair, I also picked up a 2B+ pipe for my 500/525 and it’s my 2nd choice. The 32 pipe was way better in the 3B iirc but I may have had a dud pipe. I was also comparing copper 32H to the 3B and a drawn yellow to the 2B+. Maybe I should be getting a copper 32H… what was that about an itch?

As if you need more things, Doug’s new D+ works fabulously on my 500/525 and my 525/547

[hyperbolica]

Just swap out the...

I let my wife read all of that. She feels a lot better about my affliction now. Thanks!

I think I'm going to play it for a while, see what still itches in a month. It actually doesn't play bad as it is, as long as I don't pick up the 79h.

[Matt K]

Always happy to help even if by comparison!

[Finetales]

Fortunately, 3Bs will happily work with any mouthpiece, so you can try a bunch until you get the sound you want. If you feel that you're still not gelling with it as a player in a month, 3Bs take very well to leadpipe swaps.