How does a Bach 7c compare to a Bach 6 1/2 AL?

ttf_crazytrombonist505 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:49 am

Hey everyone,
How does a Bach 7c compare to a small shank Bach 6 1/2 AL? In what ways does it feel different from a 6 1/2 AL? I currently use a 6 1/2 AL as my main tenor mouthpiece, and I'm wondering about maybe trying a 7c. Any feedback would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
Zach

ttf_sabutin · Post by **ttf_sabutin** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:30 am

Quote from: crazytrombonist505 on Apr 14, 2017, 06:49AMHey everyone,
How does a Bach 7c compare to a small shank Bach 6 1/2 AL? In what ways does it feel different from a 6 1/2 AL? I currently use a 6 1/2 AL as my main tenor mouthpiece, and I'm wondering about maybe trying a 7c. Any feedback would be much appreciated!

Thanks,
Zach

A 7C is decidedly brighter than a 6.5AL...stronger, more pronounced attacks; gets brighter...to the point of nastiness on many lightweight horns...earlier in the dynamic range, easier high range, less good sound down through the 2nd + 3rd partial, not as flexible, smaller diameter rim, more resistant (smaller throat), harder to articulate rapidly at volume (Backs up for many people.) and many 7Cs seem to have a harder bite on the inside of the rim than other Bachs...

If you are switching to a smaller m'pce, like your general sound and playing on a 6.5AL but you're having endurance and control problems it the upper register...welcome to the club. Many of my contemporaries came to NYC playing 6.5ALs and switched to 6.5As, myself included. Try one. Also try a 6 3/4C. If they are still too big, lots of fine players get really good results out of 11Cs. Urbie Green once said that Bach really only made 2 small shank m'pces, the 6.6AL and the 12C. Everything else was a compromise from one of those. The 11C is like a small 6.5AL stylistically; the 7C is like a larger 12C.

Roughly speaking...

And of course, there are hundreds of other m'pces out there.

Good luck...

S.

ttf_Bellend · Post by **ttf_Bellend** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:17 am

Good advice from Sam.

I would chuck the Yamaha Nils Landgren model mouthpiece in to the list.

You can here the man himself describe it here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkvmlAppYn8 at around the 7 minute mark.

For me, a much better take on the 6 3/4 C

FWIW

BellEnd

ttf_watermailonman · Post by **ttf_watermailonman** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:59 am

Quote from: sabutin on Apr 14, 2017, 07:30AMUrbie Green once said that Bach really only made 2 small shank m'pces, the 6.6AL and the 12C. Everything else was a compromise from one of those. The 11C is like a small 6.5AL stylistically; the 7C is like a larger 12C.

True.

When I switched to 6 3/4C and got used to it I found it easy to play 11C's and 6 1/2 AL and all the Hammond mouthpieces. The mount Vernon 12C and the 12E (for alto) both works. Strangely the 7C has never worked for me. It is something with the rim that makes it awkward. The 4C is a strange piece, I don't like that one either.

/Tom

ttf_chipolah · Post by **ttf_chipolah** » Fri Apr 14, 2017 10:27 am

I played a 6-3/4C for many years(45 years) and I loved it. I now play a 6-1/2A (not AL). When I played mostly lead, the 6-3/4C was perfect for me. Since I don't play much lead now, I went to the 6-1/2A. I feel that is a comfortable change for me. I very highly recommend the 6-3/4C. (I played a Bach Corp.)

ttf_crazytrombonist505 · Fri Apr 14, 2017 11:18 am

Thanks for all the replies so far! That's exactly what I wanted to know!

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Mon Apr 17, 2017 5:19 am

Is the rim on a modern VB 6.5 curved or more like my Faxx 6.5AL, which has a more pronounced "bite"? I like it a lot but I play long sets all over the range and the sharper rim could be a problem.
The spec's for the 6.5A looks interesting, I'm a bit sceptical about the rim though.

Also, does anyone have any experience with a Josef Klier 8.E lookalike. I got one with my K+H tbn, and it plays very well but sticks out of the receiver more than any other m/p that I own. I can adjust for tuning but I don't like the horn being further from my face..

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:46 am

Quote from: sabutin on Apr 14, 2017, 07:30AMA 7C is decidedly brighter than a 6.5AL...stronger, more pronounced attacks; gets brighter...to the point of nastiness on many lightweight horns...earlier in the dynamic range, easier high range, less good sound down through the 2nd + 3rd partial, not as flexible, smaller diameter rim, more resistant (smaller throat), harder to articulate rapidly at volume (Backs up for many people.) and many 7Cs seem to have a harder bite on the inside of the rim than other Bachs...

If you are switching to a smaller m'pce, like your general sound and playing on a 6.5AL but you're having endurance and control problems it the upper register...welcome to the club. Many of my contemporaries came to NYC playing 6.5ALs and switched to 6.5As, myself included. Try one. Also try a 6 3/4C. If they are still too big, lots of fine players get really good results out of 11Cs. Urbie Green once said that Bach really only made 2 small shank m'pces, the 6.6AL and the 12C. Everything else was a compromise from one of those. The 11C is like a small 6.5AL stylistically; the 7C is like a larger 12C.

Roughly speaking...

And of course, there are hundreds of other m'pces out there.

Good luck...

S.

It looks like the 6.5AM inhabits the middle ground between the AL and the A, and is there no love for the AM? I took my Faxx 6.5AL out last night for the first time, and even though it was great at home, I hated it in a band.. Great articulations, and sure footed but an air hog.

ttf_Dukesboneman · Post by **ttf_Dukesboneman** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:31 am

For me, and it`s just my opinion, The 6 1/2 series are kind of air hogs. I`ve played either a 7C or a 7 since 1978 and it lets me
do what ever I need. The sound can be huge or I can channel my inner "Watrous" when ever. I`ve found that the 7C blends better in a section than some of the larger mouthpieces

ttf_slide advantage · Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:17 am

Quote from: chipolah on Apr 14, 2017, 10:27AMI played a 6-3/4C for many years(45 years) and I loved it. I now play a 6-1/2A (not AL). When I played mostly lead, the 6-3/4C was perfect for me. Since I don't play much lead now, I went to the 6-1/2A. I feel that is a comfortable change for me. I very highly recommend the 6-3/4C. (I played a Bach Corp.)

And I thank you for that 6 3/4C! I had it replated and I play it today

I went with the 6 3/4C a few years ago. Before that I played a 7C that was hand reamed to .234 on the throat. I still use that one sometimes when I am playing lead in a loud band. It cuts through a bit easier than the 6 3/4C

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:56 am

I tried my VB 7C Artisan today, nice articulations and a clear sound, I imagine that it would be a nice lead m/p. Unfortunately I only play in a B/B once a year max, and then I'm usually on 3rd or so.

The piece that I like the most is the Bart v Lier 8E that came with my K+H horn, but it sits a little too high in the receiver for me. It looks like a JK 8E so I might get one sent over from Thomann.de on sale or return.

Looks like I'm back on the M/P trail again, sigh..

ttf_Le.Tromboniste · Post by **ttf_Le.Tromboniste** » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:25 pm

I'd add the Yamaha Alain Trudel in the list of mouthpieces to try as well. It has a slightly smaller diameter than a 6½, a rim that some (myself included) find very comfortable, a very deep V cup and a fairly open throat. Great all-around mouthpiece. I find it much, much easier to play than my Bach 6½AL, while it serves pretty much the exact same purpose and suits the same styles of playing.

To you original question, there are many differences between the 7C and 6½AL. It is not that much smaller, but the cup profile is very different, much shallower and throat is less open. Has very little in common in terms of playing characteristics.

ttf_afugate · Post by **ttf_afugate** » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:17 am

Quote from: chipolah on Apr 14, 2017, 10:27AMI played a 6-3/4C for many years(45 years) and I loved it. I now play a 6-1/2A (not AL). When I played mostly lead, the 6-3/4C was perfect for me. Since I don't play much lead now, I went to the 6-1/2A. I feel that is a comfortable change for me. I very highly recommend the 6-3/4C. (I played a Bach Corp.)

Chip, I assume the 6-3/4C mp shipped with the Wessex .525 is modeled off the 6-3/4C mouthpiece you mentioned? My daughter sounds great with this mp on her Wessex.

--Andy in OKC

ttf_chipolah · Post by **ttf_chipolah** » Sun Apr 23, 2017 1:36 pm

Quote from: afugate on Apr 19, 2017, 09:17AMChip, I assume the 6-3/4C mp shipped with the Wessex .525 is modeled off the 6-3/4C mouthpiece you mentioned? My daughter sounds great with this mp on her Wessex.

--Andy in OKC
Hi Andy... Yes, the Wessex 6-3/4C is a copy of the Bach Corp. 6-3/4C I played for many years. Glad you like it. I thought it would be a good match for the .525.

ttf_Davidus1 · Post by **ttf_Davidus1** » Tue May 09, 2017 7:19 pm

I will also give kudos to the Wessex 6 3/4C. I own two. I love them. Great pieces! You can't beat the price and the quality is great too.

ttf_Posaunus · Post by **ttf_Posaunus** » Tue May 09, 2017 11:24 pm

Quote from: Davidus1 on May 09, 2017, 07:19PMI will also give kudos to the Wessex 6 3/4C. Great pieces! You can't beat the price and the quality is great too.

ttf_Posaunus · Post by **ttf_Posaunus** » Tue May 09, 2017 11:24 pm

Quote from: Davidus1 on May 09, 2017, 07:19PMI will also give kudos to the Wessex 6 3/4C. Great pieces! You can't beat the price and the quality is great too.