Double trigger notes on Bass Trombone

[martinong]

Whenever I see a double trigger note, be it C or B, I would get very scared especially if is a quaver with an accent. I’m more comfortable with longer notes. How do I work on it?

I play a Greg Black 1G.

[Matt K]

I'm normally not the type to simply say "practice your scales", but in this case, scales & arpeggios are a great way to build fluidity in the context of the tonal center you may be playing in when reading. Practicing with a drone will help you feel confident about playing them in tune too since where you'd be on the slide with your F, Gb, or both will be different (because the total length of the instrument is longer, the distance between positions is greater). If you have a little bit of muscle memory combined with knowing what it should sound like, you'll start to be able to play in the lower registers at quicker tempi.

[imsevimse]

I think everybody who change to bass after a while struggles with attack in the trigger range and to get to the pitch centre down there fast. You don't want the note to come late or wobble, you want a solid bite as fast as possible. Attacks and a steady comfortable sound production in the trigger register takes some time to learn. The C and B on double triggers are even more difficult because of more resistance. I guess you will get many different suggestions to practice this. I can only tell what I believe helped me the most and that is the skill of false tones on the open horn, first on a tenor and later on the bass. To master that technique you need to set your emboushure for the note more accurate compared to if you use the trigger. With the trigger the horn helps the lips to slide into the right frequency a lot but as a false tone you really need to be more accurate or else you will not get a decent sound or not even a descent pitch. To get that bite with the false tones is what helped me most to get to a note fast and especially the C and B both on the single as factitious notes and on the double as real notes. An important help is also to back off from the face with the mouthpiece or else it will be hard. You could add some practice on those factitious notes on your daily routine. I know a lot of players who do that even if they do not use them for concert music but only use them for practice.

/Tom

[GabrielRice]

Start with what you CAN do.

Tap your foot to establish a pulse. Play a long note for a few beats, let it stop for one beat rest while you keep your mouthpiece in place, then re-articulate. Do this starting at about mp. The goal is for the new note to start with your embouchure in the same formation as the long note.

Another thing I've found very helpful for tone production in the valve register is to play the same kinds of lip slurs - 3, 4, 5, 6-note slurs - that I do on the open horn with the valves down. Make those slurs as smooth as you can get them, going up and down from the low D, Db, C, B to the partials above while keeping the valves down.

And one more thought: it is even more important in the low register than anywhere else for articulations to be more about the air than the tongue.

[BigBadandBass]

Sounds to me you have issues with short notes and attacks. Long notes don’t seem to bug you? Without hearing you, seeing you or any of those important things my guess is the embouchure isn’t setting right away.

My technique for this is something I call “reductive long tones”. Play a long note, a bar long, with an accent, do this 3 times once it’s centered and strong, brick like. After this is consistent, subtract an eighth note (sorry, american, I do not under the quaver system) and repeat. Keep getting rid of notes and make sure that brick of sound is consistent no matter the length.

That and scales and lip slurs. This is an additive lifelong process, it’ll take time to get the stability physically and even longer to get it mentally

[Burgerbob]

Set-Breathe-Play

Sometimes we need a reminder or primer in what the "set" is- in extreme ranges it's easy to rely on a embouchure formation that might not be quiiiite right or understood. All the above comments are great ways to dig into what that "set" is for you.

[Doug Elliott]

I was just working on this with somebody in a Skype lesson this morning.
One of the most common problems I see with this is the articulation combined with the oral cavity. To start a low note cleanly, your oral cavity needs to ALREADY be set for it. Practice without the horn saying TAW or TOH or DAW or DOH without moving your jaw at the same time. Then do it on the horn. Do not accept TEEAH, your tongue needs to go directly to the AW. Longer notes are more forgiving but short notes need an instant proper response from everything being set for it, both embouchure and tongue.

[2bobone]

This is difficult to put into words but realistically a "short" note is a "short long note". In other words, the mechanisms that are necessary to achieve a well-balanced long note such as sufficient air, open oral cavity and just firm enough embouchure must be in place for success. Kleinhammer used to advocate taking a full breath preceeding the release [NOT attack], holding it without closure of the throat and then taking another tiny breath just before the release even though you think you cannot possibly hold any more air. [you can !]. The air stream is therefore "supercharged" and subsequently you have the fuel to sustain the note fully. Work backwards from whole notes to 1/16th notes keeping the same approach and you will be amazed at the result. Doug Elliott's comments are excellent and more concise than mine. I worked for a conductor who never gave an upbeat so that you knew where to take a breath before playing. Using Kleinhammer's technique I was able to sit primed and ready for that sudden downbeat. The conductor was a cellist and never realized that wind players NEED to breath before playing ! His beat was the simple dropping of a bow onto a string. Try it ! You'll like it !!

[Doug Elliott]

I have a slightly different method of dealing with breathing for an unknown downbeat. I cycle a small amount of breath in and out, so I'm always prepared but not "holding" the air statically, which can be destructive in several ways.

[baileyman]

Take this with a grain of salt as I have no trigger on my horn.

I've been swinging my slur practice and there seem to be a number of benefits. One is the plain old rhythm. But another is that since the notes are long-short some of the slurred notes get pushed to speak in less time. And if one then turns the slur upside down, the other notes get short practice.

For me typically the practice is a variation on that old standard flex (in partials): 4 3 5 4 6 5 4 3 4. Start on partial 2 and you get great pedals practice. Turn it upside down 3 4 2 3 1 2 3 4 and the other notes get short practice.

If I had a trigger I'd do what Gabe said and run the partial all the way to its end triggers down.

[2bobone]

Quoting Doug Elliott : "I have a slightly different method of dealing with breathing for an unknown downbeat. I cycle a small amount of breath in and out, so I'm always prepared but not "holding" the air statically, which can be destructive in several ways."
I totally agree with Doug's comments and was remiss in stating that Kleinhammer referenced "rocking the breath in and out" so that a static air situation never occurred . On the surface it sounds like a very complicated process, but in reality is no more complicated than our natural pattern of normal breathing patterns with conscious control more fully realized. Regarding the "destructive in several ways" of Doug's comments : Any attempt to stop a natural process requires you to release from that "caesura" and return to a normal breathing pattern which requires time and effort. All a waste of your resources ! We're both on the same page here but just describe it in different terms. Try it ! You'll like it !
Take a moment here to embrace the joy that music provides to our existence. We are VERY lucky people !

[hyperbolica]

When I first started playing bass, I had a similar trouble. Lots of good advice already here, but this is what worked for me. First, I worked on scales and arpeggios down. Long and then short. Arpeggios are probably the most important. You can move between valve regimes - no valves, one valve, both valves, pedals. Moving in and out of the various regimes will help you be confident in all of them.

Also, I worked on the lower notes (pedals) that I could hit, and practiced getting the attacks on those correct, and then moving up. Then I would work on notes above that I could play, and make sure the attack was correct, and move down.

[Savio]

Aahh, my favorite topic. Because I can't quite do it myself. Articulate, legato, staccato, accent. Low register? One way is to try to imitate good players, another is to imitate a tune you like a lot. Take a song, it doesn't matter if it's Taylor Swift or a Puccini aria. Play it down around pedal Bb and trigger C. Try to make it sound the way you want. Give it some time? I think you will make it!

Leif

[boneagain]

Great advice above.
I'd like to emphasize Matt's comment about "drones."

If you are not playing the right note (i.e. the slide is not in the right spot for the desired pitch) you will NOT get a short, clear, sharp articulation.

Play medium long tones with a drone. Medium would be maybe half notes at 60 BPM.
Record the results. Listen carefully.
Most of the folks I hear having trouble nailing that first millisecond of the long tone are searching for the note by "lipping" it to fit.

If you shift your SLIDE on the long tones until the out-of-tune beating stops in the body of the long tone.
Rinse and repeat.
If you have formed a habit of playing trigger notes "closer in" than they really are, it will take some doing to get a good, relaxed, in-tune note in the right place.

Once you have THAT in hand, the advice above will do wonders at improving your attack.