Aging’s impact on “Speaking” rapid articulations

[Crazy4Tbone86]

I will turn 60 later this year. With each year, I do feel a few more aches and pains and my body is definitely less flexible than it was years ago. Sometimes I feel the only advantage to growing older is the wisdom that can be gained.

In the past year or so, I have noticed one particular thing about my body that has struck me. When I “speak” rapid single tonguing patterns as demonstrations for my students, I have definitely lost some speed. Fortunately, I have not lost speed when I play! It is only when I SPEAK the rapid articulations. The good news is that I am able to increase my speed of speaking (and get back to my normal maximum speed) with a couple of minutes of rapid speaking “ta ta ta ta ta” etc……warm ups. Thus, I try to do those before every round of lessons.

I am aware that people lose speed in their articulations as they age. I remember reading articles by professionals that described patterns that they performed with single tonguing in their 30s and 40s turned into double and triple tonguing patterns in their 60s and 70s. I am wondering……are my “speaking” articulation issues just a precursor to actual articulation issues that I might experience on the instrument in the next few years? Has anyone else had similar experiences?

[baBposaune]

It's the air flow that aids the speed of your multiple tonguing while playing, hence the difference. Students hearing the articulations spoken clearly (a bit slower than played on the instrument) is helpful to them. I'm 62 and understand what you are talking about but I would say that it's not really a huge problem since you warm up before. In other words it's not a real cause for concern. There are ways to overcome or at least work around most things involving age related changes.

At 62 and I've had to really work to find ways to sustain long phrases now that my vital lung capacity is less than it was in my 30s. Being forced to find solutions and then incorporating those solutions into my daily playing and performing are interesting and worthwhile challenges.

[Bach5G]

I’m turning 68 this year. I’ve definitely noticed this in both playing and speech. I try to work on articulation every day.

[Doug Elliott]

I never had a fast single tongue so I learned early to multiple tongue pretty much everything. I haven't noticed any slowing of speed, but I wouldn't.

I agree with "It's the air flow that aids the speed of your multiple tonguing while playing," but really the same is true of single tonguing. If you keep the air flow constant, the tongue can go faster and smoother.

[Burgerbob]

I'm just a young gun here, but I can play articulations way, way faster than I can speak them.

[trombonedemon]

I'm just a young gun here, but I can play articulations way, way faster than I can speak them.

Agreed.

Also I'm thinking has your breathing changed, mine had increased since my younger years?

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Thanks everyone. I agree with two concepts that have been brought up here:

1. Air flow helps with speed of articulation. I try to practice fast tonguing a few times every week and I always focus on the air flow when raising the metronome to the higher speeds.

2. A musician can play faster articulations on the instrument than they can speak. It’s just that I now notice a bigger difference, especially the first spoken rhythms of each day.

I guess I will probably notice if with tongue twisters as well. Time to practice saying “She sells seashells by the seashore” rapidly!

It has not been a huge problem when teaching because, as someone already noted, most of the spoken rhythms demonstrated at lessons are for rhythmic accuracy (not speed) and articulation clarity.

[johntarr]

Another aspect to consider is that when we do something the same way for years and years, we can become “stiff.” Think of long time runners or people who sit in chairs for long periods, over the years, the body’s structures change to accommodate those movements or positions.

In an interesting video with Joe Alessi and an Italian trombonist (his name escapes me, speaking of aging) talked about their experiences with recovering from Bells Palsy. The Italian said he continues to do the exercises the doctor prescribed for him, one of which is buzzing the mouthpiece on different places. He said his range increased a sixth! I’m wondering if adding the new and novel stimuli of those exercises has something to do with that.

Maybe some variations in your tongue movements would losen things up a bit.

[baBposaune]

I never had a fast single tongue so I learned early to multiple tongue pretty much everything. I haven't noticed any slowing of speed, but I wouldn't.

I agree with "It's the air flow that aids the speed of your multiple tonguing while playing," but really the same is true of single tonguing. If you keep the air flow constant, the tongue can go faster and smoother.

Yes! Without good airflow it's very difficult to articulate. I think of the "denting the water hose" or the RainBird sprinkler analogy when blowing and tonguing. It's what I teach my students.

[Doug Elliott]

I think the speed is because the air blows the tongue out of the way, so there only needs to be effort in one direction.

[baileyman]

I think the speed is because the air blows the tongue out of the way, so there only needs to be effort in one direction.

And it can elastically recoil and repeat indefinitely seeming with only a little tension effort. I have not found this to boost my speed, though.

[imsevimse]

I have always had troubles with fast single tounge, but kan speak faster. My solution to this has been to play ta-da-ta-da instead of da-da-da-da or ta-ta-ta-ta. The alternation helps me loosen up the jaw and tonge I guess. Now when I have been doing this for years I can single tongue repeatad sixteenths at 120. When I didn't do this I could hardly do 96. The articulation also have become more close to the same with practice, somewhere between ta and the da, it's now more like ta-ra-ra-ra-ra. If you get stuck with problems with fast single tounguing you could give this a try. It took a while but now it sounds okay when I do it.

/Tom

[johntarr]

I never had a fast single tongue so I learned early to multiple tongue pretty much everything. I haven't noticed any slowing of speed, but I wouldn't.

I agree with "It's the air flow that aids the speed of your multiple tonguing while playing," but really the same is true of single tonguing. If you keep the air flow constant, the tongue can go faster and smoother.

Yes! Without good airflow it's very difficult to articulate. I think of the "denting the water hose" or the RainBird sprinkler analogy when blowing and tonguing. It's what I teach my students.

The airflow can only do so much, if the tongue can’t relax quickly enough articulation will be slow. There are interesting studies with athletes that show that differences in performance between really good athletes and Olympic athletes are related to the ability to relax more quickly, not necessarily greater strength. As we age, our abilities to relax can diminish but those abilities can also be influenced by shortening of the muscles and systemic/habitual tension.

[baileyman]

I have always had troubles with fast single tounge, but kan speak faster. My solution to this has been to play ta-da-ta-da instead of da-da-da-da or ta-ta-ta-ta. The alternation helps me loosen up the jaw and tonge I guess. Now when I have been doing this for years I can single tongue repeatad sixteenths at 120. When I didn't do this I could hardly do 96. The articulation also have become more close to the same with practice, somewhere between ta and the da, it's now more like ta-ra-ra-ra-ra. If you get stuck with problems with fast single tounguing you could give this a try. It took a while but now it sounds okay when I do it.

/Tom

I've tried this kind of thing trying to understand whatever the heck Andy Martin does, and I made a bit of headway then gave it up. On your mention though, I will give it another try. One movement I tried was "dither dither dither" and it seemed to have possibilities, for one who started doing it with a 16 year old brain, perhaps!