Small mouthpiece,big hole

[henrysa]

My Griego Artist 7B small bore was recently purchased for my new classic Getzen 3508. Coming from a Bach 12 this was heaven in all ranges. On a lark, I rolled it into my King 4B f large bore. The shank disappeared completely, I think it went all the way up to the stock leadpipe. Buzzed it, it buzzed back a little, but the immediate appearance of an almost limitless, and solid high range, shocked the heck out of me....Flash back...Where were these notes while fighting through the King 29 that came with my King, 50 years ago. As a young pedestrian bandsman, I used to play that 29 until I needed to play higher, then I would snap in my small bore Bach 12C onto my King adapter and ignore the stuffy low notes as I reached any high notes I needed. Got me through college and a little longer. Then a career and family. 35 years later, now I'm back. Now I have time and money in my pocket. Have rapidly progressed? through a Bach 6 1/2 AL. Then tried a Denis Wick 5ABL and a 4AL. Went back to the 6 1/2 and had a fighting chance. But not prepared for my Griego surprise. Now what do I do? Tried putting it into the King adapter, pretty good, but that adapter leaves the mouthpiece shank way far away from the receiver and leadpipe, feels wrong in my head. Then experimented with different thicknesses of tape to allow small bore to nest closer to the leadpipe. Now I'm getting somewhere. Great high notes and adequate middle and low range. The best results are still when the Griego shank completely disappears into the receiver. Now what do I do? If Griego makes a large bore 7B can I expect a happy ending, or "not so fast, rookie"? Whole lotta money to find out. Or are there other mouthpieces you seasoned veterans could suggest. This old fat guy is happily led or mislead. I'm having a ball on TBC, thank you to everyone.

[Posaunus]

A small-shank mouthpiece will never work properly in a large-shank trombone receiver, and I'm skeptical about using small-to-large shank adapters. You need a large-shank mouthpiece.

I've never played a Griego 7B so I don't know what are some near-equivalents in large shank. You may have to experiment with a few likely candidates. TromboneChat will not be short of suggestions!

[Burgerbob]

Pretty sure you can just get that in large shank.

[henrysa]

Thanks, does it follow that the large bore would perform about the same? Real money for those Griegos.

[henrysa]

Gosh, it is right there on Griego website.

[TromboneTallie]

Large and small shank versions of that series are completely different

[henrysa]

Ouch. Same number and model. Not helpful when one is trying to grasp a straw. Thanks for the heads up.

[Burgerbob]

Different throat, I'm not sure the rest is that different. Might be worth hitting up Christan.

[henrysa]

I did, two emails, no response. Surprised since I just bought my 7B small shank directly from him after he recommended it for my Getzen. Ignoring a customer argues against loyalty.

[TromboneTallie]

I did, two emails, no response. Surprised since I just bought my 7B small shank directly from him after he recommended it for my Getzen. Ignoring a customer argues against loyalty.

They are not good about returning emails. Call them.

[henrysa]

Yes right on it.

[Matt K]

The farther in the shank goes into the leadpipe the more "open" it feels. You can get a shank threaded with sleeves to reduce or increase the insetion depth; these are called "sleeves". I'm a little curious about your setup. The way you describe it doesn't make much sense to me. I'd imagine it would sound awful because air is leaking out the receiver but obviously it is no if you are playing it and it works better than when you have tape or the adapter on it. Could you post a picture of this piece inserted into your 4B?

I'm not one to immediately dismiss a small -> large shank adapter. They should obviously not be used in every situation; however, consider that the large shank 6.5AL (the one with the "teutonic" sound*!) is... essentially a small shank 6.5AL but with a really think shank. Essentially a small shank piece with an adapter built into it. And large shank 6.5AL from the Mt. Vernon or earlier eras are probably the most expensive pieces you can get outside of Almont pieces. Several high quality copies of the piece retain the thick walls, including the Shires copy.

By all means, try the Griego 7B in large shank, but I suspect it won't work for you if the adapter you tried did not as well; it won't make you stick out in any meaningful way (or at least it shouldn't). I also suspect that either 1) you're doing something with the 4B or the 4B is of some kind of divergent design than I'm used to or 2) the super inserted 7B isn't working quite as well as you think due to something that you might not be noticing. (I don't mean this to demean your abilities either, sometimes these things can be deceptive). Figuring out which one of these it is, someone might have a good answer for what to try next to get what you're after.

[henrysa]

I will get couple pictures. Not near the horn now. As is often the case, I mis-wrote. The first time I inserted just the naked 7B small shank,
all the way up the wazoo, yes some buzziness, but it still revealed the amazing high notes. Then I started my dog and pony show with tape bandaids. The thinnest layers of tape that would still be snug enough in the receiver and still allow the entire shank to be inserted ALL the way in resulted in best quality and highest notes. So I can certainly live with it that way. I would just buy another small shank 7B for my Getzen 3508. But it sounds like a bandaid solution(second lame attempt at punnery). This is when I shot up a flare on the TBC about the idea of the G Artist large shank 7B option. Now I hear here that it might not same result. BTW English really is my first language.

[Kdanielsen]

The Griego Artist large shank B cup is deeper that the small shank B cup. I’d think a large shank 7A would be a good one to try for the King 4B. I don’t think it’s the same cup, but it might feel/sound close. Just a guess on my part without measuring etc but I have had a lot of these Griego mouthpieces over the years.

[henrysa]

Maybe this time I get one from a dealer who allows returns. Thank you