.525 Small or large bore Leadpie?

[ATXBassBone]

I know Shires has the Ralph Sauer model with a set of large shank and small shank leadpipes for the .525/.547 slides.

I'm looking at picking up a used Edwards and want to know if the leadpipes are large or small shank. I think it's small?? Does Noah Gladstone/ Brad Close make a large bore leadpipe for an edwards 525?

[Matt K]

I'm not sure if I've ever seen a large shank Edwards, but they may exist. If it does and you want small shank, it wouldn't be hard to acquire some small shank Edwards (or other pipes). The other direction can be tricky... sometiems medium bore slides do not have sufficient width to hold a large shank mouthpiece. I know Rath R3 and Shires medium bores do.

Brassark will make a large shank MV36 pipe, but they can only do drawn yellow brass (I know because I just ordered one a few weeks ago!). I'll review in a few months when I get it in hand!

[brassmedic]

I assume you mean small or large shank rather than bore, since .525 is the bore. I think you should be able to use either kind on an Edwards .525 bore. [EDIT: Someone else is saying they only take small shank, so at this time I will say I don't know.] I believe the outer diameter of the ring is the same. I can't make large shank .525 pipes in nickel silver; it splits practically every time. I don't recall saying I couldn't do seamed copper or seamed yellow brass, but maybe I'm remembering wrong. I think those might be possible. But definitely not nickel. Drawn yellow brass definitely works for that. Email me if you want to discuss.

[Kdanielsen]

Its my understanding that the edwards 525 slide can’t accommodate large shank leadpipes.

[Matt K]

I asked Noah when I put the order in, it's okay since I would have gone with drawn yellow anyway!

[brassmedic]

Its my understanding that the edwards 525 slide can’t accommodate large shank leadpipes.

Oh. I've made those leadpipes before for customers, so I assumed they fit. I don't own an Edwards .525 trombone to test one, though.

[muschem]

I don't have a separate threaded collar to test my .525 Edwards slide, but I was under the impression that the OD for all of their collars is the same. I know my .508 and .525 collars thread into my .562 barrel just fine. They issue the same size acrylic protector for all of the leadpipes they make. I've always assumed that an Edwards large shank collar fitted to a .525 pipe would work in the slide fine, but I've never tried one made that way. Brad was kind enough to attempt a drawn nickel .525 pipe with a large shank collar in my last order, but as he mentioned above, nickel tends to split when stretched that far, so it didn't work out.

[CalgaryTbone]

Its my understanding that the edwards 525 slide can’t accommodate large shank leadpipes.

I have an Edwards .525 slide - just small shank. You can use either .525 and .547 slides with the same bells, but there are not any large shank leadpipes for the .525 bore slide that I am aware of.

Jim Scott

[Kdanielsen]

Its my understanding that the edwards 525 slide can’t accommodate large shank leadpipes.

I have an Edwards .525 slide - just small shank. You can use either .525 and .547 slides with the same bells, but there are not any large shank leadpipes for the .525 bore slide that I am aware of.

Jim Scott

I haven’t tested it but I remember discussing this several years ago and the consensus was that it won’t work. Something about the clearance in the cork barrel?

It’d be great to get some hard evidence. Ive always wanted to try large shank in my medium slide but haven’t had the chance.

[PhilE]

I have one of Brad Close's 0.525 leadpipes with large shank receiver for my Bach 36,

It is threaded in with the usual threaded receiver added to the top of the cork barrel.

It works just fine.

[ATXBassBone]

Wow!

Thanks for the responses.

I'll probably end up sending Brad an email here in the next few weeks right after TMEA.

Thanks!

Luke

[Matt K]

I don't have a separate threaded collar to test my .525 Edwards slide, but I was under the impression that the OD for all of their collars is the same. I know my .508 and .525 collars thread into my .562 barrel just fine. They issue the same size acrylic protector for all of the leadpipes they make. I've always assumed that an Edwards large shank collar fitted to a .525 pipe would work in the slide fine, but I've never tried one made that way. Brad was kind enough to attempt a drawn nickel .525 pipe with a large shank collar in my last order, but as he mentioned above, nickel tends to split when stretched that far, so it didn't work out.

The collars should be the same, but what might happen is the leadpipe might be >.525" on the outer diameter (for the mouthpiece receiver portion)... and the inner slide and/or cork barrel may not be sufficiently wide or tall enough to accommodate the chamber.

[MrHCinDE]

FWIW the Conn X leadpipe, for use with the .525” slide with 8h/88h, accepts large shank mouthpieces. The threaded ring/mouthpiece receiver on the leadpipe sticks out a few mm further than the same part on the Conn small shank pipes for the same slide (H and T). I would speculate that this design is to accommodate the larger shank but it would be interesting to hear from anyone who knows for sure.

In principle, it should be possible to get the screw threads filed down on a Conn X leadpipe and use it as push fit on other slides. It might also be possible to get the ring swapped for one with Edwards thread (could be a tight fit to get the receiver end of the leadpipe through the ring though, anyone tried?).

[Matt K]

Yes, that’s mostly right. The Conn X pipe is weird. I like it for some playing on one of my setups, but I’m gravitating towards a 1.5 for large shank stuff with some mouthpieces changes a an horn stuff I’ve changed.

At any rate… the X is a two piece leadpipe where the threads and mouthpiece receiver are one single, nickel piece soldered to the actual Venturi. As such, what it does is make the whole setup like .25” longer but it will fit in some slides that don’t normally accept large shanks.

For example, my 525/547 Frankenslide has a YSL646 upper slide with a shires threaded receiver, but the original YSL8820 cork barrel. Even with the cork barrel intended for large shanks, a Shires MT1.5 will not fit all the way (it needs an extra 3/8” of length to seat properly). I suspect that if I had a Shires cork barrel it would be slightly longer than the custom monstrosity I have.

To accommodate, I had a tech file off the threads and solder a set of shires threads to it. The depth is the same as stock, but now fits my frankenslide. I suspect that if one were to do this, it would likewise fit in an Edwards slide.

There are a few caveats… the first is that it will be a little long. It’s not a big deal for me. I play with my tuning slide almost all the way in anyway. The other is that the pipe is kind of an unusual blow. It worked great for me when I was using a Bach rotor on my otherwise Conn-esque setup. However, with a dual bore rotor and a regular rotor, it is a little too “open” for me. On an Edwards I suspect you might have a similar issue. Especially if it’s with a Thayer.

Fortunately, the X pipe is pretty cheap and the threads actually fit initially so it’ll screw in enough to try before you have your tech take a torch to it.

I’m having a custom collar built for my 1.5 that has shires male and female threads that is 3/8” so I can use the Shires leadpipe. I told Matt Frost, who has done several such odd jobs for me, that this might be something others want, so you can order it with Shires threads. He could make one with Edwards threads w/o too much effort too.

[Posaunus]

It's already been said. In a nutshell:
The Conn SL2547 slide (0.525"/0.547" dual bore) is supplied with 3 interchangeable leadpipes, models H, T and X.
The H and T leadpipes take small-shank mouthpieces.
The X leadpipe takes a large-shank mouthpiece. Sort of awkward, and not perfect, but it does allow use of a large-shank mouthpiece in the 0.525" bore upper slide.

[MrHCinDE]

Thanks @MattK for the detailed information of his experience about tinkering with the Conn X pipe.

I used to own one with a Conn .525“ slide and liked it but never loved it. My main use was to keep it in the case for when I inevitably turned up somewhere with my .525“ slide and wish I‘d brought my .547“ slide. I always felt it narrowed the difference (and for me actually the benefits) of the medium bore slide relative to the large bore slide. That‘s a matter of personal taste though.

[Matt K]

Thanks @MattK for the detailed information of his experience about tinkering with the Conn X pipe.

I used to own one with a Conn .525“ slide and liked it but never loved it. My main use was to keep it in the case for when I inevitably turned up somewhere with my .525“ slide and wish I‘d brought my .547“ slide. I always felt it narrowed the difference (and for me actually the benefits) of the medium bore slide relative to the large bore slide. That‘s a matter of personal taste though.

X is super open. It would be like Shires offering like a M2, M2.5 and a MT4!! Maybe a touch of hyperbole.

If they just offered the large receiver on their H or T or, IMO even better (assuming there's a difference, because there might not be) of their 52H pipe they'd have something fantastic.