Rim Buzzing - Useful?

ttf_peteriley · Post by **ttf_peteriley** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 11:35 am

Hello y'all!

I watched a video with Toby Oft promoting "rim" buzzing. I've read a lot about the pros/cons of free buzzing, and MP buzzing. It seems like "rim" buzzing is a compromise between the two. I would like to find activities that can help me improve everything and anything about my trombone playing, especially when I can't play the actual trombone (like driving, lying in bed (don't go there!), sat at work). Is it something that might be useful, but only in small doses?

I do have a shelf full of old mouthpieces and a hacksaw (and a Bach MP tool) so I wouldn't need to even purchase one of the specially-made rims.

Thanks in advance, Pete

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:15 pm

I had Rim buzzing mentioned to me by a friend sometime last year who encouraged me to watch the Oft video. Personally, I really like it. I do mostly scale and arpeggio patterns on the rim, and find it easier to hear if there is a particular place I lose some resonance or if my air isn't consistent. I find it helps with my legato playing, as well as connecting my low register to high.

As for being a compromise between free and mouthpiece buzzing.... I dunno. I think it feels much more like free buzzing, so if free buzzing doesn't work for you then I wouldn't think rim buzzing would either. Having said that, before I started buzzing on just the rim, I couldn't get any benefit from just free buzzing in the low register. With the rim, I can connect my low and high registers in a way that is beneficial to my trombone playing. Its one of those things thats worth giving a go.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:26 pm

What is the source of your rim for buzzing? Does it match the rim on your mouthpiece exactly? Just curious. Thx.

Quote from: bigbassbone1 on Mar 24, 2017, 12:15PMI had Rim buzzing mentioned to me by a friend sometime last year who encouraged me to watch the Oft video. Personally, I really like it. I do mostly scale and arpeggio patterns on the rim, and find it easier to hear if there is a particular place I lose some resonance or if my air isn't consistent. I find it helps with my legato playing, as well as connecting my low register to high.

As for being a compromise between free and mouthpiece buzzing.... I dunno. I think it feels much more like free buzzing, so if free buzzing doesn't work for you then I wouldn't think rim buzzing would either. Having said that, before I started buzzing on just the rim, I couldn't get any benefit from just free buzzing in the low register. With the rim, I can connect my low and high registers in a way that is beneficial to my trombone playing. Its one of those things thats worth giving a go.

ttf_bigbassbone1 · Post by **ttf_bigbassbone1** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:30 pm

Quote from: 3BF3BF on Mar 24, 2017, 12:26PMWhat is the source of your rim for buzzing? Does it match the rim on your mouthpiece exactly? Just curious. Thx.

Yup its identical. I play a stock laskey 93D normally but also own a mouthpiece "set" with a seperate laskey 93D rim that screws onto an 85md cup, a bach 2g cup and bach 4g cup.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:43 pm

That's cool. I'm interested in this... Where might I obtain a rim that matches my mouthpiece (Bach 5GS) rim? I know that Bach made separate underparts (actually one on eBay now), but I haven't located a source for compatible rims.

Thanks to anyone who can chime in.

Quote from: bigbassbone1 on Mar 24, 2017, 12:30PMtuae
Yup its identical. I play a stock laskey 93D normally but also own a mouthpiece "set" with a seperate laskey 93D rim that screws onto an 85md cup, a bach 2g cup and bach 4g cup.

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:45 pm

Do you have a public library handy?

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:47 pm

Quote from: timothy42b on Mar 24, 2017, 12:45PMDo you have a public library handy?
??

ttf_peteriley · Post by **ttf_peteriley** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:04 pm

Quote from: 3BF3BF on Mar 24, 2017, 12:43PMThat's cool. I'm interested in this... Where might I obtain a rim that matches my mouthpiece (Bach 5GS) rim? I know that Bach made separate underparts (actually one on eBay now), but I haven't located a source for compatible rims.

Thanks to anyone who can chime in.

Here are some options:

1. Saw the rim off your MP

(or get an old used one that's dented in the shank and cheap)
2. Get just the rim from a MP maker (e.g.,Doug Elliot)
3. Get a Bach MP tool, which just happens to be about a size 5 on one side
4. Order one from the Toby Oft website ($40)

It seemed like there was an extra part on the rims by Toby Oft, but he was quite upfront about just sawing off an old MP to get a rim.

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:11 pm

Quote from: 3BF3BF on Mar 24, 2017, 12:47PM??

It would take you about ten minutes on Tinkercad or 123Design to draw a mouthpiece rim and handle.

email or bring a thumb drive to a public library and they can often 3D print it for you.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:15 pm

Quote from: timothy42b on Mar 24, 2017, 01:11PMIt would take you about ten minutes on Tinkercad or 123Design to draw a mouthpiece rim and handle.

email or bring a thumb drive to a public library and they can often 3D print it for you.

Ahhh... My wife's school has 3-D printers in their 'maker space' that are just for publicity and used for virtually nothing relevant (NYC schools in case you're wondering). Now they might have something to do. Thanks!

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:16 pm

Quote from: peteriley on Mar 24, 2017, 01:04PMHere are some options:

1. Saw the rim off your MP

(or get an old used one that's dented in the shank and cheap)
2. Get just the rim from a MP maker (e.g.,Doug Elliot)
3. Get a Bach MP tool, which just happens to be about a size 5 on one side
4. Order one from the Toby Oft website ($40)

It seemed like there was an extra part on the rims by Toby Oft, but he was quite upfront about just sawing off an old MP to get a rim.

I'll check with my tool-hoarding neighbor to see if he has a band saw. Thx.

Edit: I always forget that I have a Dremel tool. And a vise.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:11 pm

Quote from: 3BF3BF on Mar 24, 2017, 01:16PM...

Edit: I always forget that I have a Dremel tool. And a vise.

Cutting the rim off with a Dremel tool will take a lot of time. A band saw is easiest, but a small hacksaw or jeweler's saw will be a good alternative.

ttf_peteriley · Post by **ttf_peteriley** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:21 am

Quote from: timothy42b on Mar 24, 2017, 01:11PMIt would take you about ten minutes on Tinkercad or 123Design to draw a mouthpiece rim and handle.

email or bring a thumb drive to a public library and they can often 3D print it for you.

Sounds like we could have a kick-starter project here? If someone could print a 4G or 5G rim for me, I'd be happy to paypal you something reasonable!

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:23 pm

Quote from: peteriley on Mar 25, 2017, 10:21AMSounds like we could have a kick-starter project here? If someone could print a 4G or 5G rim for me, I'd be happy to paypal you something reasonable!

What if I draw an SVG and post it here? You can then print it anywhere you want. I'm just learning the software and struggling a bit but this is a simple shape.

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:27 pm

I will be in a position soon to offer rims on a stick in any size you might want.
Let me know if you'd be interested. I haven't figured out a price yet.

However I'm much more a fan of freebuzzing... IF you do it right.
I have been almost 100% successful at teaching every player I've worked with to freebuzz correctly for their own face.
I just had one who had the right formation and could blow air through it but didn't get an actual buzz. I consider that to be OK too, and infinitely better than buzzing on a bad formation.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:48 pm

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Mar 26, 2017, 10:27PM
I just had one who had the right formation and could blow air through it but didn't get an actual buzz. I consider that to be OK too, and infinitely better than buzzing on a bad formation.

How was this player on the instrument?

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:00 pm

I was just at a University this past week and I worked with about 50 or more brass players, from beginners in a brass methods class to professionals, on trumpet, horn, trombone, and tuba. I don't actually remember how that particular student played, but every player needed help in some way and ended up playing significantly better. There was one who was as I described above, and I know he benefitted from having a better formation whether it buzzed or not. I taught everybody else I worked with to buzz successfully, including the brass methods students who were pretty much total beginners who played other non-brass instruments.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:38 am

I swear by rim buzzing for my own practice and my students embouchure development. Here's a short synopsis on rim buzzing as a part of a Rochut video: https://youtu.be/skkxMbglvvA

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 11:38 am

I swear by rim buzzing for my own practice and my students embouchure development. Here's a short synopsis on rim buzzing as a part of a Rochut video: https://youtu.be/skkxMbglvvA