American trombones - what an international market

[Macbone1]

I was stationed in Europe for a few years, and of course the internet has opened the world up for free-flowing communication since then.

It seems the good old USA can be proud to be the apparent world leader in trombones. All over Europe for example (except MAYBE for Germany which has excellent makers), most players seem to crave the American brands.

Incidentally, Germans really love Bach products. Brits LOVE Conns. But has anyone ever heard of a desirable Italian trombone? French, except for Courtois? Spanish, Polish or Portuguese model? Yes, they have Haag and Willson in Switzerland. That's about it though. Yamaha also has wide international appeal, but that's' probably the only competition at that level.

[Burgerbob]

Big country, band culture, mass production... it all adds up.

[Rob1662]

I was stationed in Europe for a few years, and of course the internet has opened the world up for free-flowing communication since then.

It seems the good old USA can be proud to be the apparent world leader in trombones. All over Europe for example (except MAYBE for Germany which has excellent makers), most players seem to crave the American brands.

Incidentally, Germans really love Bach products. Brits LOVE Conns. But has anyone ever heard of a desirable Italian trombone? French, except for Courtois? Spanish, Polish or Portuguese model? Yes, they have Haag and Willson in Switzerland. That's about it though. Yamaha also has wide international appeal, but that's' probably the only competition at that level.

You've failed to mention the excellent instruments made by Mick Rath in Yorkshire, England

[Kbiggs]

Keep an eye on China: Jupiter, Wessex, and the like.

And these M.I.S.O. (musical instrument shaped objects) companies: https://www.made-in-china.com/manufactu ... ments.html

[hyperbolica]

Eastman (China), Stomvi (Spain)

[walldaja]

Courtois now assembling in Germany

[Mamaposaune]

Adams, made in the Netherlands is up-and-coming in the high-end market.

[pedrombon]

Sonas Trombones in Spain, small workshop that builds high-end trombones.

[Macbone1]

Excellent responses all. Didn't mean to slight Mick Rath....woops.

[JohnL]

At one time, Weril in Brazil was producing some pretty respectable trombones (the Gagliardi/GG series comes to mind). I've run into a couple people who Weril trombones and they're happy with 'em. Not sure if they're offering anything of that caliber today.

[EriKon]

Kühnl & Hoyer is big in the Netherlands, if I might add

[Bach5G]

Adams Brass. Also in Netherlands.

[MaevenDeadcloud]

Kühnl & Hoyer is big in the Netherlands, if I might add

Although I live there, I don't know much about popular brands since I only play in my school concert and jazz bands. However, I do know they're a German brand, and they make damn good instruments.

I got one of their models, the .563 Bb/F/Gb/D model, in order to have my own trombone instead of continuing to borrow my school's bass bone (an old Bach 10.5"), and I absolutely love it. It sounds beautiful and plays amazingly. When I was trying out trombones at the Thomann showroom, I narrowed it down to the K&H and the Yamaha YBL-830 Geno (the yellow brass version). The difference between the two was very big. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to play any other good quality trombones, so I can't say much, but I can say that Kühnl & Hoyer makes very good intruments.

[HermanGerman]

Bach trombones are big in Germany? No, some love them, many don´t..

Schagerl, Austria, another respected builder..
Inderbinen, Suisse

[EriKon]

Bach trombones are big in Germany? No, some love them, many don´t..

Schagerl, Austria, another respected builder..
Inderbinen, Suisse

That's what I was wondering as well. I know like 3 players out of hundreds that play Bach instruments (no matter which style or gerne).

[EriKon]

Kühnl & Hoyer is big in the Netherlands, if I might add

Although I live there, I don't know much about popular brands since I only play in my school concert and jazz bands. However, I do know they're a German brand, and they make damn good instruments.

I got one of their models, the .563 Bb/F/Gb/D model, in order to have my own trombone instead of continuing to borrow my school's bass bone (an old Bach 10.5"), and I absolutely love it. It sounds beautiful and plays amazingly. When I was trying out trombones at the Thomann showroom, I narrowed it down to the K&H and the Yamaha YBL-830 Geno (the yellow brass version). The difference between the two was very big. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to play any other good quality trombones, so I can't say much, but I can say that Kühnl & Hoyer makes very good intruments.

I've never played one actually, but I'm pretty sure they're great instruments. Yeah, they're a German company. But since they had cooperations with Dutch trombonists, especially with Bart van Lier, I've met many young players in jazz who played the Bart van Lier line of instruments.

[MStarke]

In Europe there are as already mentioned numerous small workshops, largest amount probably in Germany, quite a few in Austria and Switzerland, some others spread over the continent.

The bigger ones that I remember right now are the Buffet Crampon group including B&S, Courtois, Besson (not completely sure who owns what ), Kühnl&Hoyer, Adams and Rath. Not to forget also Amati and Lidl - though I am not sure if/what they still produce today and how big they are. And Miraphone, but I assume trombones are only a comparably small part of their business.

And then there are some that are probably in the middle, e.g. Schagerl, Voigt, maybe Willson.

All of them making purely or mostly American-style trombones, with just some very small exceptions. Really German-style instruments from my knowledge all come out of very small workshops.

[officermayo]

At one time, Weril in Brazil was producing some pretty respectable trombones (the Gagliardi/GG series comes to mind). I've run into a couple people who Weril trombones and they're happy with 'em. Not sure if they're offering anything of that caliber today.

Played a friend's Weril euphonium borrowed for a pit gig a couple of years ago. It was excellent.

[MaevenDeadcloud]

Although I live there, I don't know much about popular brands since I only play in my school concert and jazz bands. However, I do know they're a German brand, and they make damn good instruments.

I got one of their models, the .563 Bb/F/Gb/D model, in order to have my own trombone instead of continuing to borrow my school's bass bone (an old Bach 10.5"), and I absolutely love it. It sounds beautiful and plays amazingly. When I was trying out trombones at the Thomann showroom, I narrowed it down to the K&H and the Yamaha YBL-830 Geno (the yellow brass version). The difference between the two was very big. Unfortunately, I haven't had the chance to play any other good quality trombones, so I can't say much, but I can say that Kühnl & Hoyer makes very good intruments.

I've never played one actually, but I'm pretty sure they're great instruments. Yeah, they're a German company. But since they had cooperations with Dutch trombonists, especially with Bart van Lier, I've met many young players in jazz who played the Bart van Lier line of instruments.

Interesting, I never knew that. Then again, like I said, I don't know much about popular brands. On second thought though, I do know about the collaboration between Ben van Dijk and Thein. Are there many who play a Thein instrument as well?

[MStarke]

My first bass was a Weril (independent open wrap, probably Bach copy, large gold brass bell, exchangable leadpipes):
Great sound, response and intonation were fine - and very adaptable with the leadpipes. Just a little bit sticky valves.

Currently I own a Weril alto (tuning-in-slide, relatively large bore, gold brass bell?):
Great sound, good response, intonation is a bit difficult.

And my euphonium is also from Weril (4 valves non-compensating, Yamaha copy?, large shank):
Sound and response are good (although on the smaller end). Had been pretty beaten up, but after some tech work the valves are okay. Intonation is as bad as on any other euphonium

[Macbone1]

K&H and Thein do make fantastic trombones

[Druidman]

I've never played one actually, but I'm pretty sure they're great instruments. Yeah, they're a German company. But since they had cooperations with Dutch trombonists, especially with Bart van Lier, I've met many young players in jazz who played the Bart van Lier line of instruments.

Interesting, I never knew that. Then again, like I said, I don't know much about popular brands. On second thought though, I do know about the collaboration between Ben van Dijk and Thein. Are there many who play a Thein instrument as well?

I don't think many players here in the US play Thein, but they have a few artists, with the most recent being Brian Hecht switching over from Shires. They're rather pricey horns (a quick look at Houghton Horns for their universal bass has it at 9500). Not an insignificant amount more than a custom Shires, M&W, Rath, etc.