Duo Gravis price expectations?

[EriKon]

So, I'm currently play testing a Duo Gravis (King 6B) (should be from 1970 with the serial number). The horn plays absolutely amazing, valves are perfect, slide is great with no wear at all, optional linkage to make it Bb/F/D AND it simply looks amazing. There's absolutely nothing on it, not a single dent, ding, nearly no scratch at all, engraving in perfect condition.
I could buy it though I'm not sure about the price, I'll have to ask again. I think it was something like 3000€. I don't know about the prices for those, but what do you think about the price? I know that horns are usually much cheaper in US than in Europe and especially Germany.
I've checked a few classified threads in here via search and it seemed like there was quite a wingspan of prices for those. So looking forward to your input. Thx in advance!

[Matt K]

That does seem high. For a little more you could pick up that super tricked out Duo Gravis with II thayers and a screwbell case that's for sale by one of the other TBC members in the classifieds here.

[EriKon]

That does seem high. For a little more you could pick up that super tricked out Duo Gravis with II thayers and a screwbell case that's for sale by one of the other TBC members in the classifieds here.

I've seen this one. Astonishing horn. With shipping, taxes, fees and everything it will be at around 4,5k, maybe even 5k. Which is a lot more than I would want to spend. Also, not a super huge fan of the thayers anymore. But the horn surely looks amazing.
Thanks for your input. What would be your price expectation for a non costumized 6B in nearly mint condition over there? 2k?

[WGWTR180]

That does seem high. For a little more you could pick up that super tricked out Duo Gravis with II thayers and a screwbell case that's for sale by one of the other TBC members in the classifieds here.

A Duo Gravis with Thayers would be a total waste of money in my opinion.

[BGuttman]

I bought a brand new King 7B (the inline horn) for $960 in 1984. That translates to $2500 in today's money. The Duo Gravis and 7B were comparably priced at that time.

So I think your price of 3000 Euros is a tad high, but not excessively so.

[Matt K]

I think I was under the impression the conversion rate was much more favorable at the moment. Id agree with Bruce’s assessment. I sold one with a trade for around $1600ish a few years ago. $2k USD i would say is on the low but reasonable end now but maybe they’re more in demand than I’m thinking.

Also disagree about the Thayer. For one thing, this particular horn has a 562 F and a 593 G attachment so it still resembles a dependent taper rather than being comical 593 like many of the larger Thayer horns. Secondly, the configuration is not much different than some of the popular Edwards and Shires models other than the valve, which has smaller valves and tubing. I expect it to play differently than a dependent set of King rotors but I also would expect a Thayer King to play very well.

[MrHCinDE]

I was pretty sure I’d seen one recently for around that price and Google came up with this:

https://m.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anze ... 941-74-811

It seems to be around the same price you’re talking about. You can look at the various horns available from that seller and form your own opinion about their pricing strategy. I haven’t seen a lot of excellent condition Duo Gravis in Europe I suppose so direct comparisons of that horn are more difficult.

€3000 would work out about $2300-$2400 plus shipping and import taxes and when you put it that way you might not find one in excellent condition (from a shop) for much cheaper if going the import route and wouldn’t have as easy an opportunity to test it out etc.

With a bit of luck and patience you can probably find one cheaper in Europe, maybe not in the condition you describe though and not without a lot of the aforementioned patience!

It comes down to having had it for a while whether you think it is worth €3000 to you? Maybe try and negotiate a little if you basically like it but think the price is just a bit high?

[2bobone]

You have found a rarity in the Duo Gravis world ---- a mint example. Consider this ; If you bought a cheaper example of this horn and then sent it to a shop to put it in top shape you'd wind up having spent the same amount of money anyway. It is only "original" once ! Trust me --- once you start playing it in ensembles someone will offer you more than you paid for it ! It is my all-time favorite all around bass trombone and I still treasure my SS version. Go for it !!

[dcslideman]

For what its worth, there's one in my area been trying to sell for quite awhile for about the same price. Of course, no one has shelled out the cash.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... 259f07e838

[EriKon]

Thanks for all the input so far. If I see it correctly it's a bit high for American standards, but that makes it probably 'on the spot' for European and especially German standards. I'll continue testing it and think about it. As a doubling bass trombone this one is so much easier to play than any other bass trombone I tried (especially the one that I already own) and that's what I'm mostly doing on btb nowadays.
I'll try to attach some crappy images I took a few days ago for those who are interested. (The optional D pipe was made by Lätzsch in Germany and therefore isn't original).

[Matt K]

Wow that actually might be better than new condition lol That doesn't look like the thick, baked on King lacquer. I retract what I said that is probably worth that price, certainly if it equates to $2400 in USD. Especially with the paddles already split.

[glenp]

Have you had someone with good ears who you trust listen to you on this horn? If they say you sound great on it, and it works in the groups you’re in, and you like playing it, then it’s worth more than fair market value. To some, that combination would make them willing to spend significantly more than they would otherwise.

[MrHCinDE]

€3000 would work out about $2300-$2400 plus shipping and import taxes and when you put it that way you might not find one in excellent condition (from a shop) for much cheaper if going the import route and wouldn’t have as easy an opportunity to test it out etc.

I’m going to have to correct myself on this, it would equate to a bit higher than $2400. I’d assumed we were still at €:$ parity but it’s actually slipped back about 5% so actually about $2500 + shipping and taxes would be closer to the mark.

[Bach5G]

That strikes me as a very reasonable price based on the photos. Beautiful horn.

[bassclef]

I've had 5 of those horns pass through my ownership over the years.

I would not hesitate to pay $2500 for that one. I've spent that much on a couple examples which had a lot more miles on them than the one in the photos.

1970 is a great vintage for those in my experience as well.

[Posaunus]

Buy it. Play it. Love it.

If you fall out of love, re-sell it and treasure the memories of when you were in love.

[DougHulme]

They are also getting harder to get hold of and as the years pass from the last production run, they will get rarer and more worn. They are such fantastic playing horns that have a character all of their own, not really reproduced by anyone else. Therefore to get one in this condition has to be a great investment and one you are not so likely to encounter again. Anything is only worth what someone wants to pay for it but I'd say get it, you gave all the reasons why by describing how you find it to play... invest!! The return will come in your playing if not a more impressive offer to buy it from someone who cant find one as they become rarer. Its a tad expensive by UK prices but the cndition justifies that... Doug

[greenbean]

I agree. That is a very special horn. DG are generally a dream to play. Buy it right now!

[Kevbach33]

If that model was available to me for that price in that condition, I'd kick myself if I let it walk. You might not get this kind of opportunity again. Do not have regrets about not buying it.

I am curious about the excellent work Lätzsch did on the D tubing. Is that gold plate? Or just gold tinted lacquer? It's quite the contrast to the clear lacquer on the rest of the horn.

[Digidog]

Living in Sweden, I'd say that €3000 for a bass trombone in that condition is fair. These DG's are not easily found in Europe, and certainly not as well preserved.

If it fits your playing, feels right, plays as good as you say: Buy it.

Elbblech had a couple of DG 7B's for sale a couple of years ago. They were not in as good condition as yours, but were about €1000 more expensive, so I don't find the €3000 for that out of line.

Just for the heck of it, you could throw out an offer of €2800 and see what happens .

[MrHCinDE]

I bought from these guys before, looks like an interesting alternative for less than €2000 from an EU shop with returns period etc.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/bass-trombone- ... 129-2357-0

[boneagain]

I bought from these guys before, looks like an interesting alternative for less than €2000 from an EU shop with returns period etc.

https://www.ebay.de/itm/bass-trombone- ... 129-2357-0

Nice... but the horn the OP hosted has:
1) all metal linkage pieces
2) 2nd lever converted (very nicely) to middle finger
3) adjustable plate under the stop arm

In short, it's the original version, looking either well refinished or beatifully maintained.

I know a lot more folks who like the split trigger than the original. The guy the horn was designed for really likes the original trigger setup. I don't.

[MrHCinDE]

Fair enough, there are some differences and the one the OP posted looks really excellent.

I’d personally be less than enthusiastic about spending the price difference of €1000 to get the trigger split and new linkages, based on a couple of quotes I got for splitting a Reynolds trigger in the past. The work could probably end up costing that much if someone wanted to spend that much but I’m quietly confident it could also be done cheaper.

I just thought it was mildly amusing that I haven’t seen that many DGs around here recently but just after the OP’s post another one pops up! If the OP was looking for something to help in a negotiation, another horn for €1k less might support his discussions.

As far as I see it, both look like pretty nice options.

[EriKon]

Thanks everyone on the input about this! And also thanks for sharing that beautiful Silversonic Duo Gravis. I'm 95% sure that I'll buy the horn that I'm currently testing. It feels right, it plays great and I love the look. So what else could I wish for? The Silversonic is for sure a great horn, but I don't want to go through the process again of buying a horn blindly without having tested it before (even if there are return policies/I'm just too lazy and often don't find the time to test it in the testing period).
Hopefully this one will get a happy new owner as it looks like a dream horn for some, I'm sure. However, I think I've found my favorite bass trombone for now

[2bobone]

Don't bother looking for a DG-SS in the same condition of the brass one you've shared with us on TC. All of those have been loved to death and need everything from valve rebuilds to lacquer. Enjoy! You've found a winner !

[Silverbee]

I believe I mistakenly believed that the exchange rate was currently considerably more advantageous.

[afugate]

Thanks everyone on the input about this! And also thanks for sharing that beautiful Silversonic Duo Gravis. I'm 95% sure that I'll buy the horn that I'm currently testing. It feels right, it plays great and I love the look. So what else could I wish for? The Silversonic is for sure a great horn, but I don't want to go through the process again of buying a horn blindly without having tested it before (even if there are return policies/I'm just too lazy and often don't find the time to test it in the testing period).
Hopefully this one will get a happy new owner as it looks like a dream horn for some, I'm sure. However, I think I've found my favorite bass trombone for now

I don't think the ebay listing is for a Silversonic? It doesn't look like it and the description says silver plated, not Silversonic (sterling silver bell).

--Andy in OKC

[EriKon]

Thanks everyone on the input about this! And also thanks for sharing that beautiful Silversonic Duo Gravis. I'm 95% sure that I'll buy the horn that I'm currently testing. It feels right, it plays great and I love the look. So what else could I wish for? The Silversonic is for sure a great horn, but I don't want to go through the process again of buying a horn blindly without having tested it before (even if there are return policies/I'm just too lazy and often don't find the time to test it in the testing period).
Hopefully this one will get a happy new owner as it looks like a dream horn for some, I'm sure. However, I think I've found my favorite bass trombone for now

I don't think the ebay listing is for a Silversonic? It doesn't look like it and the description says silver plated, not Silversonic (sterling silver bell).

--Andy in OKC

Oh yeah, you're right! Overlooked that. Thanks for the heads-up!