What to do with overly-loud trumpet players?

ttf_peteriley · Post by **ttf_peteriley** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:27 pm

Hi,

I'm in a jazz band with a standard setup: a line of saxes, trombones, then trumpets. The director has all the lead players lined up in the centre, which puts my ears in front of two competing lead trumpet players (I was playing bass last year, which put me nicely off to the side and in front of a nice 4th trumpet player). While trading 8's I've registered 115 dB with these two. (That was also the day that one of them passed out after his solo!) Anyway, I got some fitted plugs, but they make my horn sound strange (stranger than usual), and I can't use them. I asked the director and he suggested just using one...at least I'd save one ear! (that was the advice that his director had given him). I've mentioned this to the trumpet players, but they just smile. In fact, I think now they're angling their bells down to me (but I haven't caught them yet).

Apart from adjusting their dental structure via a tap on their bell the next time they do this, any suggestions for how to avoid getting a thumping head at the end of rehearsal?

Thanks, Pete

ttf_Pre59 · Post by **ttf_Pre59** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:56 pm

You want to get this sorted, tinnitus and hearing loss is for life.

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:01 pm

become one

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:07 pm

I find it disturbing that your director and trumpet colleagues seem indifferent (if not downright antagonistic) to your plight. If you are willing to walk away from this toxic group, that might be the best solution. If not, and the director remains unwilling to make any changes is configuration, given the choice between long term hearing loss and a couple of hours a week of strange sound through ear plugs, I'd opt for the latter.

ttf_jalapeno · Post by **ttf_jalapeno** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:17 pm

there have more than a few times when I wish I had used some ear protection, band or rock concert or otherwise.

protect your ears

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:33 pm

Get out of that band!

Several years ago I made the mistake of sitting in with a community college band that needed a bass trombone. The three trumpets were so insanely loud that it permanently damaged my ear on the side that faced them.

Three years later, it's only in the last year or so that I can play my own horn above a p without ear pain. It may go without saying that my trombone playing has declined quite a bit in the last three years, being unable to practice it in a normal manner.

I presume you are younger than I so you probably wont' notice damage as quickly as i did, but the damage is happening and accumulating until you reach a tipping point.

I've tried ear plugs. The problem with ear plugs is they make the internal sound of playing louder while diminishing the external sound you need to pay attention to.

ttf_crazytrombonist505 · Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:50 pm

IMO it would definitely be better to get out of that band, as opposed to having your hearing suffer damage as a result of staying.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:01 pm

I (52 y.o.) have significant hearing damage: severe hyperacusis in both ears and tinnitus in the right, neither of which are fun. I suspect that it was induced by playing upright euphonium for many years and exacerbated by fellow musicians playing too loudly. Once I decided I had suffered enough, I sat with my band director at the time privately and told him that I needed to be as far away as possible from the electric bass, percussion and trumpets even though I was using custom-fit Westone earplugs with -20dB Etymotic filters. He was kind enough to rearrange the entire ensemble for me. If this hadn't been the case, I would have needed to resign. He also recognized that the band was too loud in general and would tell portion of sections (trumpets in particular) to sit out until they saw the wisdom of following his directions.

I need the earplugs to make listening to any live music (which I used to do weekly), films in theaters and other events with a lot of people barely tolerable. Many times I need to walk away. Sporting events in arenas are out of the question. I am no longer able to play music with more than a couple of other musicians.

Protect your hearing while you can. If you say it's too loud, it's too loud. Period. Have a frank discussion with the director. If she/he cannot (or won't) accommodate you, walk away. It's not worth the damage and, rest assured, the damage is permanent. Take it from me. Ask any audiologist.

Almost all of the music that we play and listen to is loud enough to be unhealthy.

ttf_davdud101 · Post by **ttf_davdud101** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:03 pm

Quote from: jalapeno on Mar 21, 2017, 03:17PMthere have more than a few times when I wish I had used some ear protection, band or rock concert or otherwise.

protect your ears

T
+1 on this, seems like the simplest/best solution if everything actually sounds good to the audience

ttf_bigbassbone1 · Post by **ttf_bigbassbone1** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:07 pm

I dont understand why people get so funny about playing with earplugs..... I dont know your situation specifically, but in most bands unfortunately trumpet players are going to play loud, and are required to do so in many areas of the music. Look up videos of awesome trumpet players playing in big band. I really wouldn't want to stand in front of most of them. If you dont want to leave the band and your trumpet colleagues are not being told by the director that they are being inappropriate, just put the ear plugs in. If they make it difficult to play, practice with them in at home and get used to them.

Another thing to do is to attach each plug to a peice of string to hang around your neck. This way you can have them out in areas you do not need them, and have them ready to quickly put in when a louder section comes up.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:10 pm

Quote from: bigbassbone1 on Mar 21, 2017, 04:07PMI dont understand why people get so funny about playing with earplugs..... I dont know your situation specifically, but in most bands unfortunately trumpet players are going to play loud, and are required to do so in many areas of the music.

Why not bring the trumpets down to tolerable/healthy levels and adjust the rest of the band accordingly?

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:16 pm

Part of the problem is that there are two lead trumpets; that usually ends up with one in each of the lead trombone's ears. When there is only one, they're usually playing into the back of your head, which is marginally more tolerable.

If you really think they're responding to your request for moderation by targeting you, it is past time to leave.

ttf_bigbassbone1 · Post by **ttf_bigbassbone1** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:19 pm

Quote from: 3BF3BF on Mar 21, 2017, 04:10PMWhy not bring the trumpets down to tolerable/healthy levels and adjust the rest of the band accordingly?

In a perfect world yes, but there are gigs and situations where they will, and need to play loud.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:23 pm

Quote from: bigbassbone1 on Mar 21, 2017, 04:19PM
In a perfect world yes, but there are gigs and situations where they will, and need to play loud.

Need? I don't buy it. Audiences need to start voting with their feet.

ttf_bonenick · Post by **ttf_bonenick** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:23 pm

Quote from: 3BF3BF on Mar 21, 2017, 04:10PMWhy not bring the trumpets down to tolerable/healthy levels and adjust the rest of the band accordingly?

Normally trumpet players are not delivered with volume knobs...

ttf_bigbassbone1 · Post by **ttf_bigbassbone1** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:33 pm

Quote from: 3BF3BF on Mar 21, 2017, 04:23PMNeed? I don't buy it. Audiences need to start voting with their feet.

Its a tool that GOOD trumpet players in that style need to have. Seriously, go on youtube and type the name of any big name trumpet player who makes a living in that style and there will be videos of them playing VERY loud. The best ones are the ones who pick their moments with it though, and dont do it all the time.
You dont have to "buy it", but you not buying it doesn't mean its going to change. Unfortunately enough people do buy it that it is required and can sound very good in the right context.

The OP should Just wear earplugs for the moments you need them. We can argue about how these players "should" lower their volume but from the OP's description it doesn't sound like they will and its is not an uncommon issue to have in a band.

ttf_ALT · Post by **ttf_ALT** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:55 pm

Quote from: bigbassbone1 on Mar 21, 2017, 04:33PMIts a tool that GOOD trumpet players in that style need to have.

Sure, but the original post is about trumpet players who pass out from playing so loudly, and are allegedly pointing their bells directly at someones heads. That is not a 'tool' in any style of music.

Get used to playing with ear plugs. It's strange at first (I've heard it described as sound like you are "playing a kazoo under water"), but you get used to it. I have moulded plugs, which I wear sometimes wear slightly loosely, which, for me, takes some of the edge off. Then, in louder situations (drum/trumpet solo when you're sitting in the 2nd chair), wear them tight, when you solo, take them out a little. I keep my moulded ones in my case most of the time, and a pair of cheaper ones in my case as well.

I'm in my mid 20's, and have tinnitus already, and know several musicians my age who do...when I first started noticing it, I had a hearing test, which showed my hearing to be excellent, and a test the following year proved the same, so you can have the effects of tinnitus without necessarily having huge hearing loss. But, it's stressful when you first start noticing it, and I consider gigs I do now. I avoid playing with rough-as-guts pop/cover bands that play way too loud anymore. It's not worth the time or the money, especially when the music output is suboptimal.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:01 pm

I concur with the previous posters: get out before you suffer further damage to your hearing. The thumping head you're experiencing is your body's way of telling you it's been damaged by the sound pressure it's been exposed to.

I had an experience similar to Robcat's about 10 years ago (recruited to play euph with the Duke Univ Wind Symphony), except the culprits were the 'bones. First rehearsal, first piece up was Mars by Holst. The bass 'bonist sitting next to me turned to the tenors and said, "Oh boy! Let's blow the conductor off the stage," which they proceeded to try to do. The conductor, who was new (first year, first academic appointment), made no attempt to rein them in. After five minutes, my ears were ringing and my head was throbbing. Gutted it out until the rehearsal break then left.

In hindsight, I should have left immediately. A week later, loud conversation still made me wince, and the hearing baseline test at my annual physical showed a 12% hearing loss from the previous year.

From what you've reported, it's clear that the director and the trumpeters don't care about either musicality or the well being of others in the group. Walk away and find a group that does care about both.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:04 pm

Quote from: ALT on Mar 21, 2017, 04:55PMI'm in my mid 20's, and have tinnitus already, and know several musicians my age who do...when I first started noticing it, I had a hearing test, which showed my hearing to be excellent, and a test the following year proved the same, so you can have the effects of tinnitus without necessarily having huge hearing loss. But, it's stressful when you first start noticing it, and I consider gigs I do now. I avoid playing with rough-as-guts pop/cover bands that play way too loud anymore. It's not worth the time or the money, especially when the music output is suboptimal.

Hearing damage doesn't necessarily result in loss. It can also result in hyperacusis (i.e., over sensitivity) which can accompany tinnitus. In fact, tinnitus retraining therapy is used to treat both conditions. Severe tinnitus can be devastating psychologically and should be avoided at all costs. While therapy has helped me 'tune out' my tinnitus, hyperacusis has a significant impact on my quality of life. Every day.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:05 pm

Quote from: bonenick on Mar 21, 2017, 04:23PMNormally trumpet players are not delivered with volume knobs...

Or musicianship. Apparently...

ttf_fsung · Post by **ttf_fsung** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:08 pm

Quote from: bigbassbone1 on Mar 21, 2017, 04:33PMIts a tool that GOOD trumpet players in that style need to have.
Yes, it's a toolone of manythat GOOD trumpet (and trombone) players in that style need to have.

The problem is that, more often than not, it's the ONLY tool that BAD trumpet players (and trombone players) have.

ttf_ntap · Post by **ttf_ntap** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:26 pm

Good, custom-fit ear plugs. Make that investment asap.

ttf_Burgerbob · Post by **ttf_Burgerbob** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:29 pm

Just wear the plugs. It's a good skill to have anyway.

I'm not sure I would stay in the band (I've been in similar groups), but I would get accustomed to the plugs in any case.

ttf_ALT · Post by **ttf_ALT** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:26 pm

Quote from: 3BF3BF on Mar 21, 2017, 05:04PMHearing damage doesn't necessarily result in loss. It can also result in hyperacusis (i.e., over sensitivity) which can accompany tinnitus. In fact, tinnitus retraining therapy is used to treat both conditions. Severe tinnitus can be devastating psychologically and should be avoided at all costs. While therapy has helped me 'tune out' my tinnitus, hyperacusis has a significant impact on my quality of life. Every day.

Totally. Tinnitus is a (sometimes) permanent sign that we need to be more careful, before we start losing hearing and doing more damage.

ttf_LowrBrass · Post by **ttf_LowrBrass** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:33 pm

Quote from: bigbassbone1 on Mar 21, 2017, 04:33PM...The OP should Just wear earplugs for the moments you need them. We can argue about how these players "should" lower their volume but from the OP's description it doesn't sound like they will and its is not an uncommon issue to have in a band.

+1
Just because it sounds terrible from 6 inches in front of their bells doesn't mean it sounds terrible from the back of the concert hall.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:08 pm

I've got a low-level tinnitus, not necessarily entirely due to the trumpet incident, but in the past few years it has gone from an occasional thing to a nearly continuous thing. It would indeed be maddening if it got louder.

Odd things I notice... it's loudest when my head is horizontal, like on a pillow, trying to sleep. When my head is upright I can almost make it disappear if I open my jaw to a certain angle.

ttf_ALT · Post by **ttf_ALT** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:41 pm

Quote from: LowrBrass on Mar 21, 2017, 07:33PM+1
Just because it sounds terrible from 6 inches in front of their bells doesn't mean it sounds terrible from the back of the concert hall.

Sure, but that's a separate issue. Big bands can require some powerful playing from the musicians who play in them, especially lead trumpet, lead bone stands in front, and should do something to protect their hearing.

However, the OP says he has two lead trumpet players playing either side of his head, and are deliberately point their bells at his head, which is incredibly malicious, if true.

One of these lead players has passed out from playing. Doesn't matter if he sounds great at the back of a concert hall if he can't stay conscious for an entire gig.

We're not talking about the great lead players we can find on youtube, we're talking about some stupid trumpet young trumpet players who are acting like idiots in a rehearsal, and not being reprimanded for it by their director. Ear plugs aren't going to fix this situation.

ttf_bigbassbone1 · Post by **ttf_bigbassbone1** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:55 pm

Quote from: ALT on Mar 21, 2017, 08:41PM
Sure, but that's a separate issue. Big bands can require some powerful playing from the musicians who play in them, especially lead trumpet, lead bone stands in front, and should do something to protect their hearing.

However, the OP says he has two lead trumpet players playing either side of his head, and are deliberately point their bells at his head, which is incredibly malicious, if true.

One of these lead players has passed out from playing. Doesn't matter if he sounds great at the back of a concert hall if he can't stay conscious for an entire gig.

We're not talking about the great lead players we can find on youtube, we're talking about some stupid trumpet young trumpet players who are acting like idiots in a rehearsal, and not being reprimanded for it by their director. Ear plugs aren't going to fix this situation.

Yeah I guess the loud trumpet discussion is for another thread.
Yeah... I think the only options the OP has have been mentioned. Get ear plugs and learn to play with them at the required moments, or simply leave the band. The trumpet players dont care if they are too loud and it sounds like the band director is not overly concerned with the way the trumpets are playing so chances of the volume dropping sound thin.

As for the trumpet players pointing right at you maliciously.... yeah thats not cool. I would tell the director that they were terrible players negatively impacting my performance as well as bring down the standard of the band, and explain that was why I was leaving the band. If they are in fact as bad as the OP says, then replacement players will have the same problem and probably leave in the same way. If that happens enough times something might change.

ttf_Piano man · Post by **ttf_Piano man** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:57 pm

I've quit bands because they were too loud on stage. Hearing is for more than music, and nothing is worth losing it for.

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:35 pm

If nothing else, wear earplugs AFTERWARDS for an hour. Giving your ears a rest after exposure to loud sounds actually does help them to recover.

I hate wearing earplugs while playing, but sometimes it's necessary and you can get sort of used to it. Or leave. I've walked out of concerts and movie theaters when it was uncomfortably loud.

ttf_ALT · Post by **ttf_ALT** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:21 am

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Mar 21, 2017, 11:35PMIf nothing else, wear earplugs AFTERWARDS for an hour. Giving your ears a rest after exposure to loud sounds actually does help them to recover.

I hate wearing earplugs while playing, but sometimes it's necessary and you can get sort of used to it. Or leave. I've walked out of concerts and movie theaters when it was uncomfortably loud.

Doug makes a good point. I know a guitarist who wears ear plugs in between sets on loud pub gigs. Gives his ears a chance to have a quick rest, rather than being caned by music played through the PA during breaks as well as stage sound during sets. Says it makes a huge difference for him.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:30 am

You won't get used to them in the 30-60 minute off-and-on intervals playing with the group. You need to practice with them in all the time until you get used to it. Record yourself with them in to hear how you're sounding and get used to how to get that without the feedback that you get without them in. I occasionally play in Ska/Rock/etc bands. I wouldn't dream of doing them without hearing protection. I swear its 120db just in between sets alone when there isn't any music playing sometimes. It isn't the most musically rewarding style to play, but I can say that I feel much more comfortable knowing what sound is coming out of the bell based on what it feels like on my lips and with the amount of air coming out and not based on the sometimes misleading feedback I'm getting from the room.

ttf_afugate · Post by **ttf_afugate** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:36 am

A couple of years back, I took some students to see a performance of Stan Kenton's mellophonium-era music featuring Joel Kay. The venue where we were going to see the performance is rather intimate. As we entered the building, I handed each one a new pair of foam earplugs. The kids all asked, "is it going to be loud"? I just smiled and said, "trust me".

We thoroughly enjoyed the evening. Fabulous performance by the band. And, we left that evening with our hearing intact.

--Andy

ttf_MikeBMiller · Post by **ttf_MikeBMiller** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:29 am

I am in the same boat with my big band. We have a Maynard Ferguson clone playing lead. The guy is really good and really loud. I got a pair of these and they really help:

https://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Research-Protection-Earplugs-Standard/dp/B0044DEESS/ref=sr_1_5_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1490189221&sr=8-5&keywords=ear%2Bplugs%2Bfor%2Bmusicians&th=1

Another option would be to change the seating arrangement for rehearsals so that you are not directly in front of the trumpets.

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:45 am

A big band I play with started putting milk crates full of foam on stands right behind the bone players heads. I've seen plexiglas guards behind the trombones as well, like the ones they put around the drums sometimes.

I don't mind loud so much as long as it's in tune. Often the intonation hurts as much as anything else. Plus, it's hard to play music that requires a lot of energy softly. We get unwanted lectures from a bass guitar player of all people on volume. Knobs are so much easier than lungs and ears.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:48 am

Quote from: peteriley on Mar 21, 2017, 02:27PM...I've mentioned this to the trumpet players, but they just smile. In fact, I think now they're angling their bells down to me (but I haven't caught them yet)...

Rearview spy glasses!

ttf_fsung · Post by **ttf_fsung** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:33 am

Quote from: hyperbolica on Mar 22, 2017, 06:45AMA big band I play with started putting milk crates full of foam on stands right behind the bone players heads. I've seen plexiglas guards behind the trombones as well, like the ones they put around the drums sometimes.

Plexiglass shields work ... to an extent; however, as Doug Yeo point out:

QuotePlexiglass shields - tend to "blunt" the direct impact of brass "force" but because they are placed immediately behind a player's head, they tend to act as sound collectors and actually can INCREASE sound focused on the ears.
Now a parabolic shield that reflects and focuses the sound back at the source ...

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 11:55 am

Quote from: MikeBMiller on Mar 22, 2017, 06:29AMI am in the same boat with my big band. We have a Maynard Ferguson clone playing lead. The guy is really good and really loud. I got a pair of these and they really help:

https://www.amazon.com/Etymotic-Research-Protection-Earplugs-Standard/dp/B0044DEESS/ref=sr_1_5_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1490189221&sr=8-5&keywords=ear%2Bplugs%2Bfor%2Bmusicians&th=1

Those are the best non-custom ear plugs I've been able to find, and I've tried dozens of brands & styles.

ttf_peteriley · Post by **ttf_peteriley** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:21 pm

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all the great comments. Since I posted one of the trumpet players has said that he's trying to point his bell away, so at least it's moving in the right direction. I'll try to get used to the plugs. I have the Etymotic Research ER20's and I've also some molded ones. It's the latter ones that were such a shock to playing. I'll try the ER20's again. I know which songs are the main culprits so I can anticipate things.

About moving things around: I suggested that. We could fit trombones and trumpets in a single line since we're a 'bone short and one or two saxes too heavy. But that didn't fly.

Of course, I could always fix the problem by taking up trumpet!

-Pete

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:47 pm

Wireless mic setup for your horn. Strategically placed Marshall stack behind the trumpet players. Plug wireless receiver into Marshall Stack. Have Nigel turn everything up to 11. Play loudly. Offending trumpet players will bow to your alphaness.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:07 pm

This does not apply to the original posters question, but was a life changing experience for me and the rest of the band so I will tell the tale;

Our band was known for how loud we played. We bought time in a nice recording studio to record a CD.

The first take was AWFUL. When played back we could hear every mistake. The tone was UGLY. The balance was non-existent. AWFUL. I felt ashamed.

The band leaders and studio engineer talked, while band members (including trumpets and drummers) discussed if we were wasting our money on the recording. Our egos were crushed.

The directors came back into the studio and said we were going to do some more takes. First, everybody was to play the right (expletive) notes. Second was to reduce the volume from ff to f.

We did the second take and it was better, but still not good.

For the third take we took it down to mf. The tone was so much better!

The fourth take was at mp. Sounding good! You could hear every part, in balance. In tune. The fortepianos sounded great.

The fifth take was as soft as we could play. Mufflers on the drums. Trumpets (and the rest of the band) using their softest, prettiest tone. Keeper!

The directors decided to buy more studio time and we recorded a good CD.

Lessons learned:

[li]Softer is better.[/li][li]Every note counts.[/li][li]The audience does not like "music" that hurts the ears.[/li][li]Play with "big heart", not big volume.[/li]

I wish I could take your band into the studio and let them (the band, the director, the two trumpets) hear what they sound like.

Rich Manning

ttf_savio · Post by **ttf_savio** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:08 pm

Maybe make a wall like Trump do

....Fact is in many orchestras they protect the players in front of the brass players with a "little" wall made on stands. (Many trumpet players and conductors claims about too loud trombone players...I think it was Strauss who told "never look at a trombone player when you conduct")

Leif

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:24 pm

It's not just trumpets:

ttf_HuskerTX · Post by **ttf_HuskerTX** » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:43 pm

Hi. Recently finished Legally Blonde. Brass section 2 Trumpets, 1 trom Me. Due to the small pit I was just in front of the 1st trumpet. After years of music I have hearing aids and In situations like that I take one hearing aid out on the side of the loud trumpet and put an ear plug in that ear and if its a big band I can turn them both down. Works for me. Cheers Max.

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:53 pm

Quote from: RMTrombone on Mar 22, 2017, 03:07PMThe fifth take was as soft as we could play. Mufflers on the drums. Trumpets (and the rest of the band) using their softest, prettiest tone. Keeper!

The directors decided to buy more studio time and we recorded a good CD.

Lessons learned:

[li]Softer is better.[/li][li]Every note counts.[/li][li]The audience does not like "music" that hurts the ears.[/li][li]Play with "big heart", not big volume.[/li]

I wish I could take your band into the studio and let them (the band, the director, the two trumpets) hear what they sound like.

Rich Manning

Great story.

Years ago a community band (a good one) was asked to play for the wedding dinner of a band member's relative. (I think that was the occasion anyway, it was a couple decades back.) But, we were asked to play everything pp so that they could still have speeches and conversations.

Never tried that before.

But, no problem with chops wearing out. For the first time ever we could hear all the parts. We balanced better. We played cleaner.

I think I made it through Radetzky on one breath.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:15 pm

Quote from: RMTrombone on Mar 22, 2017, 03:07PMThis does not apply to the original posters question, but was a life changing experience for me and the rest of the band so I will tell the tale;

I would wager that every musician, ensemble and conductor/director would benefit from reading this story. Performances (included those by professional musicians) are almost always too loud. I attended live performances (jazz, classical, pro, amateur - you name it) in NYC almost weekly for several years and can count on one hand the number of musicians, groups and sound 'engineers' that knew what they were doing, volume-wise.

ttf_stephenkerry · Post by **ttf_stephenkerry** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:38 pm

If the situation isn't changing, and the band director supports the trumpets (maybe he was a trumpt player) then, seriously, consider leaving. You should not have to endure this sort of abuse in rehearsals. The trumpet players will know what they are doing. And it will sound crap in any case.

ttf_LeoInFL · Post by **ttf_LeoInFL** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:52 pm

Our music organization (CFC Arts) has a jazz band, almost all of the members play with the symphony orchestra also. Same setup as the OP described (saxes, bones, trumpets), but the exception being the trumpets stand while everyone in front of them sits. I guess the thought is that the trumpet section sound would pass over the heads of the people in front of them. Would your group be open to this slight setup change??

ttf_peteriley · Post by **ttf_peteriley** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:44 pm

Quote from: sowilson on Mar 22, 2017, 12:47PMWireless mic setup for your horn. Strategically placed Marshall stack behind the trumpet players. Plug wireless receiver into Marshall Stack. Have Nigel turn everything up to 11. Play loudly. Offending trumpet players will bow to your alphaness.

Hah, I was thinking along these lines. More to just switch the rows. I don't think the sax players would stand for it and I'd enjoy blasting into the trumpet ears.

On a related note, perhaps the trumpet players are reading this thread. We had a concert last night and after one solo I asked them to pull their stands up. They did and it helped. I am going to use the ear plugs at rehearsal today though.

ttf_peteriley · Post by **ttf_peteriley** » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:48 pm

Quote from: LeoInFL on Mar 23, 2017, 01:52PMOur music organization (CFC Arts) has a jazz band, almost all of the members play with the symphony orchestra also. Same setup as the OP described (saxes, bones, trumpets), but the exception being the trumpets stand while everyone in front of them sits. I guess the thought is that the trumpet section sound would pass over the heads of the people in front of them. Would your group be open to this slight setup change??

They are standing. They're just still too loud. Raising the stands has helped in two ways. First, they're not pointing the bells down when reading the charts. And second, the sound is passing more over my head.