Bach 50B2 and 50B2O tunes to F/Eb

[Fireinthebones]

So I currently am playing my schools 50B2O Dependent bass trombone tuned to F and Eb, surprisingly the horn plays wonderfully and has no major dents but it has some questionable lacquer on it. I’ve seen that D extensions are sold for them but I am not about to go out and buy one when I don’t even own the horn. The triggers on it have been split but what makes no sense to me is why Bach makes their dependent basses tunes to F/Eb as Stock? Their independent basses are F/Gb/D. I could understand if an independent bass was tuned to F/G/Eb as that makes complete sense with the versitality of a G valve so it would have advantages and disadvantages of a higher tuning with both valves pressed but on a dependent horn this tuning makes absolutely zero sense. I am curious if anyone knows why Bach chooses to do this instead of adapting to the accepted dependent tuning of F/D.

[spencercarran]

Bach has some random spurts of laziness in instrument design. The first dependent basses they made had short second slides, and they've not bothered to change the default. (See also: about 70 years of using the wrong-sized rotor on the 42B, bc they initially just grabbed the 36B rotor from the parts bin)

[elmsandr]

Well, part of the deal with selling to Selmer was ‘don’t change things and screw up classic designs.’ Taken to an illogical extreme leads you to keep selling dependent basses tuned in the wrong key with bad levers for about 30 or 40 years longer than makes sense.

Given the choice, I’d rather they keep this up than look for stupid changes that cut cost but ruin the horns, so there is a blessing in that trade off, but nothing is promised on that either.

Cheers,
Andy

[ithinknot]

Tbf, I can't imagine they get many orders for the dependents, so it's probably more a question of using 30 yr old catalog photos and text than evidence that they're churning out lots of ferociously obsolete horns. (Anyway, if such an order ever did come in, a dealer would specify D slide and split triggers.)

The replacement slide from Bach is way overpriced for what it is, and it might not arrive before you turn 40, but a tech with a decent parts bin could make you a pair of extenders very easily and cheaply... inner ID .594 / OD .632ish, outer ID .634

[tbonesullivan]

Just remember that their 50B2 STILL comes stock with the double thumb trigger. You know, the one that other makers abandoned on their dependent horns decades ago. They are also the only one who still makes them stock Bb/F/Eb without including a D crook, which Yamaha does on their YBL-620G.

The Conn 62H is in the Conn-selmer website as Bb/F/Eb, but EVERY picture I can find of the current production is Bb/F/D.

[Burgerbob]

They're mostly sold to schools, so why change?

They make probably 6 bass models that they should just drop, but if they keep selling...

[Finetales]

New for 2023: Bach 50B2 Legacy in Bb/F/E with a Glantz bar!

[ithinknot]

New for 2023: Bach 50B2 Legacy in Bb/F/E with a Glantz bar!

supplied in the Selmer coffin (large enough for three trombones and a lifetime supply of ham, and guaranteed to crease the upper edge of the bell) along with a 7lb tub of Pond's cold cream and a carton of Virginia Slims

[brassmedic]

Bach has some random spurts of laziness in instrument design. The first dependent basses they made had short second slides, and they've not bothered to change the default. (See also: about 70 years of using the wrong-sized rotor on the 42B, bc they initially just grabbed the 36B rotor from the parts bin)

It's not really just a matter of "the wrong valve", The 42 was designed identically to the 36, with only a larger slide and bell flare. The 36B and 42B are actually identical from the valve through the tuning slide. The bell is the same except the flare is cut shorter on the 36. The F attachment was similar in bore to other .547 trombones. If anything, that valve section was too big for the 36.

[elmsandr]

Tbf, I can't imagine they get many orders for the dependents, so it's probably more a question of using 30 yr old catalog photos and text than evidence that they're churning out lots of ferociously obsolete horns. (Anyway, if such an order ever did come in, a dealer would specify D slide and split triggers.)

The replacement slide from Bach is way overpriced for what it is, and it might not arrive before you turn 40, but a tech with a decent parts bin could make you a pair of extenders very easily and cheaply... inner ID .594 / OD .632ish, outer ID .634

Based on used markets, still plenty of dependents made and sold. I would be VERY curious to see a breakdown. They also make a ton of single 50B and 50BO… most probably get sold to schools so they probably often select the cheapest option of a bass trombone of the brand they want.

Also, I am not a betting man, but I would bet you a steak dinner that the vast majority (75%+) of 50B2 and B2O’s ordered do not leave the factory with a D slide. Again, the school pipeline and the fact that most of the people in the handling of the orders only have a passing idea of what a trombone is, let alone a bass trombone and valve configurations. Those are just letters on the order chart to most of them, and the D option probably looks like they’re trying to be charged for pin striping or something to them.

Cheers,
Andy

[ithinknot]

I would bet you a steak dinner

I'm sure you're right; I don't want to have to send you beef in the mail

[bellend]

Having only played dependant bass trombones I would say that there is nothing wrong with the Eb tuning on these.
Once I got my head round it I found many things seemed to lay easier with it.
Another added bonus is that it plays slightly freer than the D pipe being a little shorter , at least on the horns I had.

BellEnd

[gbedinger]

I am wondering what the collective would say to my experience (although some of you will remember these days). In 1972, I became the owner of a Conn 62h configured Bb/F/E. Try that on for size!

[LIBrassCo]

Not sure why the hate on Bb/F/Eb. That's what I play daily. As for the linkage, ya, an update would be nice.

[whitbey]

The old Bach linkage, my Cerveny oval euphonium and the metal mini balls all seem to do well with this method of lube.

Place large glob of Vaseline on socket. Warm without flame hitting stops ect. let Vaseline melt into ball. Be happy for a few months with the performance.

[boneagain]

I’ve seen that D extensions are sold for them but I am not about to go out and buy one when I don’t even own the horn.

Someone above mentioned that a good tech can probably cobble D extensions up faster and for fewer $ than the "genuine Bach" article.

That being said, do you plan to keep playing bass trombone? Maybe get your own some day? Perhaps have your own while you still have access to the school horn for things like pep bands?

You are early on in your bass trombone journey. Do you want to establish Eb (or maybe even just flat E) fingering patterns that you will have to UNlearn later? Or do you want to start establishing the technique that will stick with you as long as you play bass?

Just askin'...

[whitbey]

I’ve seen that D extensions are sold for them but I am not about to go out and buy one when I don’t even own the horn.

Someone above mentioned that a good tech can probably cobble D extensions up faster and for fewer $ than the "genuine Bach" article.

That being said, do you plan to keep playing bass trombone? Maybe get your own some day? Perhaps have your own while you still have access to the school horn for things like pep bands?

You are early on in your bass trombone journey. Do you want to establish Eb (or maybe even just flat E) fingering patterns that you will have to UNlearn later? Or do you want to start establishing the technique that will stick with you as long as you play bass?

Just askin'...

I have four pipes / 2 sets of extensions from years ago. with both sets I was able to do the C. They are still sitting in a box someplace.