What to do after your beginner book?

[comebackplayer]

I'm a comeback player on trumpet and am starting trombone. I've done a rough read through Essential Elements and have played probably 60% of the tunes. It seems to go from the A at the bottom of the staff up to the C just above it. It only seems to have one scale (Bb) but introduces songs in F and E.

I have a hymnal and a book of intermediate solos, but those are both too hard for me now. What do you normally do after the very first trombone book? I guess there is an Essential Elements 2. I've also ordered Standard of Excellence.

Grateful for advice on:
-core texts
-free resources
-scales
-simple tunes (jazz standards, hymns, etc.)

[harrisonreed]

Arbans is a pretty great place to start, especially for a trumpeter. Get the real, Alessi edited version, not the abridged one.

Beyond that, it's difficult to know what to suggest workout really working with you. Without a teacher it will be difficult to make a lot of progress on your own.

[BGuttman]

Essential Elements and Standard of Excellence are both intended for in-school group instruction of different instruments in the same class. The fact that they are so popular indicates they are good for what they are, but for individual instruction I'd go to something else.

You are probably familiar with Arban's being a trumpet player and we trombone players get an Arban's as soon as we have some basic knowledge of the instrument. In the Bad Old Days we had a bass clef one by Charles Randall and Simone Mantia that was missing a few sections from the original and included a bunch of weird keys due to transcribing the Bb trumpet parts into C (who sees double flats much? Where is 5 sharps since I get it a lot in Orchestra?). I knew some teachers who used trumpet Arban's but after the student learned Tenor Clef (a common requirement in orchestra, and the notes are in the same positions on the staff as trumpet music). The Mantia-Randall version has been supplanted with a newer "translation" by Joe Alessi and Brian Bowman that restores some of the missing parts of Arban and uses a set of key signatures more relevant to trombone parts.

As you know, Arban's generally gets used after some basic methods to teach you what is music, the positions, and at least 7 or 8 major scales. You can get a lot of this stuff from the Rubank methods (Beginning, Intermediate, and Advanced). Again, since you know what a scale is and how to read music (if in treble clef), you may find that you can skip a lot of this stuff. Some of the very early exercises in Arban's (that you probably skipped as a kid) will cover this fine.

When you get a bit more advanced (part way through Arban's), look on IMSLP for something called "School for Trombone" by Blazhevich. It is a sort of Russian Arban's, but it includes all the clefs used in orchestral trombone writing, including tenor and alto. many of us used this book to learn the clefs, but it is really an advanced method book.

Recently I made friends with Carl Hampe, whose great-grandfather (also Carl Hampe) was principal trombone of the Boston Symphony. Carl had a copy of his great-grandfather's method book (he wrote it). I scanned it into a PDF. If you are interested, please send me an e-mail or PM and I'll see if I can send it to you.

Another book commonly used by trombone players is the Rochut Melodious Etudes. These are actually by Marco Bordogni and were for voice, but Rochut transcribed them into bass clef and graded them by difficulty so the beginning ones should be easy to play but you have to be pretty good to get to the back of the first book. Rochut is good for teaching phrasing and interpretation but pretty thin on technique. Arban's is for technique.

Good luck. Trombone can be fun.

[comebackplayer]

Thank you both for the advice. This is already a big help. Bruce, I will look at Rubank; it's probably the best bet for me. I found Ernest Clarke's intro online, which seems more thorough and might help me work on fundamentals. Hampe sounds interesting also--I would enjoy seeing it.

The band-style books may let me play with my kids too. I have two starting on trumpet and this would let me play along with them. They're doing the Standard of Excellence books, but are just in book 1. With them I've tried some of the first lines of more advanced methods, but range is a big limitation for them. For me, I'm pretty comfortable on range, but I haven't learned the positions or gotten them in my head yet. I don't aspire to be a symphonic player. I'd like to be able to play trios with my kids or play trombone in a community band or church (I was in a community band with too many trumpets and almost no trombones, and I've love to be able to help in a situation like that).

Arban's is still probably beyond me. I have the Alessi version and can definitely do some of the exercises (11, 48, etc.). Arban's moves immediately to all 12 keys and assumes knowledge above and below the staff, and I'm not really there yet. As an example, because of background on trumpet/flugabone I can play several intervals above the C above the staff, but my beginner book doesn't teach what those positions are or give me exercises to slowly build them. I'm kind of hoping to move into lower brass as a hobby. I would like to use my flugabone to also learn to do lower brass fingerings and understand transposition better, but that's still in the future. For now I'm looking to build basic competence in a way that is somewhat fun.

I will look for a teacher, but with work and kids I have limited hours now. Curiously, only one teacher lists in the classifieds here, and they are pretty high level. I'm hoping eventually to find someone who'd teach me, but I'm also based abroad and time zones can be challenging.

This is such a friendly board! Thank you again for the help.

[robcat2075]

I have previously taken a look at the trombone method books available for free on IMSLP.

They all have some omission or unstated presumption that would make them troublesome without a teacher to say, "What this means is..." or "we come back to this part later..."

In the absence of a teacher to give you better advice, my short-term suggestion is to get that #2 of the "Essential Elements" series you mentioned and work through it, as you have the first.

It probably doesn't go very far, but that is better than too far, too fast.

[BGuttman]

You probably know more than you think. You probably can play trombone in transposing treble clef (or treble clef baritone horn). Just learn these equivalences:

1st position = no valves
2nd position = 2nd valve
3rd position = 1st valve
4th position = 1+2 valves
5th position = 2+3 valves
6th position = 1+3 valves
7th position = 1+2+3 valves

D (line and space above bass staff) plays like trumpet E (4th space in the staff) - 1st position
Eb (2 lines above bass staff) plays like trumpet F (top of staff) - 3rd position
F (2 lines and space above bass staff) plays like trumpet G (space above staff) - 1st position

I think you can figure out some more on your own.

[Mamaposaune]

You mentioned the Earnest Clarke book, and I would highly recommend it. You'll progress through all the key signatures, and the full-page etudes are tuneful and fun to play.

[Chatname]

The Intermediate Trombonist: Building Blocks for Tone and Technique, by Brad Edwards
Not for free but very good nonetheless.

[JLivi]

Some books that I love and would recommend:

Rubank Elementary and/or Intermediate
I use these with all of my beginner and middle school students and have had a lot of success with them. This is also what I played in middle school.

Beeler Method for Trombone
I've never worked out of this, but it was recently recommended to me by a friend that I trust.

Technical Studies H.L. Clarke
I'm sure you're familiar with this coming from trumpet

Schlossberg Daily Drills
This was recommended to me by the same friend that recommended the Beeler book, but I've been working out of this for the past 6 weeks and absolutely love the exercises in it. It's more of a maintenance technique builder, but it would be great if paired with an etude book or something like the Beeler or Rubank.

[comebackplayer]

Great suggestions! Spent some time on Edward Clarke and think it'll take me a few steps farther, but I'll also get the Rubank. I know often Qpress has sales at Christmas, so I may keep an eye out for a trombone method bundle. It's a fun hobby. Trombone just has a really nice sound.

[BGuttman]

In your travels, look for a series by Andre LaFosse. There are 4 books to his method. The first one is really basic, while the fourth one is really advanced. It used to be on IMSLP, but probably got taken down due to copyright issues (Publisher owns what is left of the copyright).

Some others: Main Method by Roy Main. Stamp method. Breeze Easy was Essential Elements before there was Essential Elements. Look for books by Reginald Fink, who published his "Studies in Legato" book as a "pre-Rochut".

[OneTon]

If you have an interest in jazz, Aebersold has both technically oriented scales and stuff, and lead sheet books with cd’s transposed for a cross section of instruments in each book. Ballads are a good introduction, give you some long tones, and are fun.

[harrisonreed]

My trumpeter friend says that we should just start new students in the back of the Arbans book and tell them that that is the easiest stuff

[BGuttman]

My trumpeter friend says that we should just start new students in the back of the Arbans book and tell them that that is the easiest stuff

Why not? That's what they do to each other

How do two trumpet players greet each other? "Hi. I'm better than you."

[comebackplayer]

Honestly, low brass does seem more chill. I like trumpet, but there's a lot of ego.

[Vegasbound]

Have a lesson or two with a trombone teacher

[Vegasbound]

Honestly, low brass does seem more chill. I like trumpet, but there's a lot of ego.

How many trumpet players does it take to change a lightbulb?

Four, one to change the bulb and three others to say how much better they would have done it!

[PaulT]

I was in your shoes three years ago. Looking for good instruction books to move me beyond what I recalled from being a lazy trombone player in high school darn near forty years ago. I bought nearly everything there was that I could find. Arban's, Rubank's, Essential Elements, Beeler... and the one that I came to greatly prefer over all others, Brad Edward's "The Intermediate Trombonist".

https://www.hickeys.com/search/products/sku120239.php

I admittedly struggle with exaggeration at times, so I am trying to contain myself, but with all brakes in place, I will begin by saying the Edwards book is a hundred times better than the others mentioned here and I am biting my tongue to keep from saying a thousand.

The Edwards book is visually accessible with clean pages and typeface that is friendly to eye (unlike the overly busy eyesore that is Arbans, a grim thing that contributed to my misspent trombone youth). And the Edwards book offers more guidance (instruction and useful tips) than the others, guidance and tips I found helpful even with a teacher and essential when without.

The Edwards book is laid out as it says, in clear progressive building blocks for tone and technique (I returned to its section on legato and natural slurs after I had thought I was done with the book and was working on Rochut's Bordogni Etudes). And, something especially cool, the last section of the book contains songs appropriate to the same progressive skill set levels the rest of book is built around AND each song is presented in two different keys. The same song in two different keys, what a great way to gain familiarity with playing in different keys.

And finally, the Edwards book (as all of his instruction books) is spiral bound. Using a stiff glue binding on a music book that will used to the point of endearment is absurd, ridiculous, and inexcusably cheap.

If it isn't clear by now, I will simply state, I highly recommend Brad Edward's "The Intermediate Trombonist" .

(and no, I am not related)

[DominicaSanchez]

I'm a comeback player on trumpet and am starting trombone. I've done a rough read through Essential Elements and have played probably 60% of the tunes. It seems to go from the A at the bottom of the staff up to the C just above it. It only seems to have one scale (Bb) but introduces songs in F and E.

I have a hymnal and a book of intermediate solos, but those are both too hard for me now. What do you normally do after the very first trombone book? I guess there is an Essential Elements 2. I've also ordered Standard of Excellence.

Grateful for advice on:
-core texts
-free resources
-scales
-simple tunes (jazz standards, hymns, etc.)

Try to find some video practices on web.

P.s. I'm using programm online to practice my skills (link in signature)

[tedthetrumpet]

My first posting here! I couldn't resist: as it happens I'm *also* a recent comeback to the trumpet who also plays a bit of trombone, and I was *also* looking for book suggestions. So this is helpful, thanks

[Rusty]

Learn to play the Trombone by Charles F. Gouse are good books, Book 1 will take you up to a high F so you could start at the back of that and then work through Book 2, Book 2 has a lot of great little tunes and exercises and deals with stuff like slurs in a clear way.

From here I’d also recommend the Intermediate Trombonist book by Brad Edwards, not free but very substantial.

[Ozzlefinch]

Everyone gave good suggestions about books, but I would like to say that method books will only get you so far. What you need to do is find a group to play with and start honing those skills into actual performance. Nothing else will build your skills faster than actual playing.

Don't worry about being "good enough " to play in an ensemble. You have the desire and some basic skills to build on, and that's 90% of it right there. I have confidence in you, I know you can do it.

[ArbanRubank]

The Rubank system, followed by Arbans! Whenever you are able, take a standard ballad and play it over & over so many times on successive days, you can't help but start to improv on it - out of sheer boredom, if not inspiration. And listen to how other musicians on various instruments play a given ballad. There's no one right way, as long as it sounds good. Play it in different keys as well. It's surprising how a ballad can jump out at you in a given key - maybe b/c it lays so well on a trombone in one key vs another. Best of luck!

[CalgaryTbone]

As far as lyrical stuff to work on, the Fink - Introducing Legato (I think that's the correct title) might be a good intermediate step before tackling the Bordogni/Rochut books. Shorter etudes and more mid-range. Better to get skills together and then follow them up with Rochut, book 1.

Jim Scott

[bwanamfupi]

There are some good play-along video resources available. I lucked into this series by Will Baker, a trombonist in the Bay area. He's not putting out any new material, but there's a wealth of content there that spans pop, classical, and film. It's usually fairly short pieces, but he writes them in all twelve keys, and he plays them for you. He also makes the music available for lots of different instruments. I used this quite a bit when my daughter was between 8th and 9th grade. She was bored with middle school french horn and needed something to engage her interest. I'm a hobbyist so I don't play a ton, and I definitely don't play much in lots of keys. It was a fun way to play together - her on french horn, and me on trombone.

https://www.willbakermusic.com/getfluent/

[PhilTrombone]

Another good resource would be "The Trombone Virtuoso" by Simone Mantia.

As aspirational title indeed, as it is more of a basics and intermediate book
Title notwithstanding, it's a good place to review before moving up to the Arban's book.

It's where I first learned tenor clef, and B-flat treble reading as well.

You can find it for free on IMSLP.

[BGuttman]

I liked the Mantia book as well. When I got mine, they didn't have IMSLP so I paid for it. I hope Mantia's heirs got some royalties out of it. It's a much gentler introduction to clefs than Blazhevich (which is what I had to learn on) since you have exercises all in 1 clef. You can start Blazhevich after you can recognize the notes since the constant switching of clefs becomes a bit of a hindrance in the beginning.

Blazhevich, which originally was called "School for Trombone" has some really basic exercises starting only in 1st position and then adding 1 position per section. The crazy clef stuff starts after that introductory part. It's kinda an "advanced" beginner method. I don't know if Russian trombone students started with it. It would be pretty daunting after the first month or two for a rank beginner.

The Fink "Studies in Legato" adds something that Arban's seems to ignore in the beginning: music. Arban concentrated on "nuts and bolts" technique, something that is very needed, but didn't introduce melodic playing until the very end. Before Fink we used to go right to Rochut 1. Fink is a nice "introduction" to Rochut/Bordogni melodic exercises.

[PhilTrombone]

I liked the Mantia book as well. When I got mine, they didn't have IMSLP so I paid for it.

Bruce, Ha! Yes, I am old enough to have had to PAY for my Mantia book. I still have it, though it is extremely well-worn.

[sacfxdx]

since you mentioned old. Me and this Arban's book. I had to pay an outrageous $7.50 for this.

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[BGuttman]

Yeah, an old friend. Nice picture of Mantia with a Conn 44H inside. Now they are all gaga over the Alessi-Bowman version. Maybe they have a point. I had a colleague who made his students buy the trumpet version (Goldman, ed.) and learn transposing treble to play it. There's more good stuff in that one, but transposing treble is pretty uncommon outside the British Brass Band.

[ArbanRubank]

I like the Alessi-Bowman version. My issue is with the publisher, who decided to split pages in awkward places on some of the selections in the back. I know they are "only" studies, but still, it would be nicer to have page breaks in logical places to maintain the continuity of the study, for their musical merits.

The accompaniments I bought for the fantasies are pretty much at coronet speeds. That's a problem for me on a single-trigger bass trombone, so I tend to play though them acapella at speeds I can handle.

[comebackplayer]

OP checking back in after 4.5 months. So I went with Standard of Excellence and am through book one, which got me to four scales. I'm starting book 2. In the meantime, I bought a 4 valve euphonium and started euphonium lessons. For euphonium I'm just starting the Canadian Brass book of intermediate solos and am going to try to do them on both euphonium and trombone. I've upgraded to a stork 4.5 mouthpiece. I feel like I'm making good musicality progress.

Adding euphonium is helping me to make several connections that were eluding me on trombone: bass to treble, fingerings to slide positions, Bb to concert pitch. I don't totally have these, but now I can look at the Eb scale and realize it would be F on trumpet, and have a reasonable chance of working it out by ear if I start on the right note. If I do that, then I can play music with four flats, which was hard at first.

I will probably be slow, and it may take me several years to sound like, say, a high school student who has been playing for several years and is in no danger of making first chair. I may never learn minor scales or get deep into Arbans. That said, I am really enjoying the instrument a lot. I think for beginners a mix of fundamentals, tunes from a student book, and longer songs is a good daily routine. Thank you everyone for the comments.

[jorymil]

Don't be scared to learn all your major and minor scales. If you can play Jingle Bells and Greensleeves (insert other simple tunes here) in all 12 keys, that's a pretty good way to learn them without boring yourself stiff, and you'll always have something to play from memory for family or friends. I'm learning to play the trumpet and doing exactly that. I once randomly ran into a violin player at a birthday party, so "Happy Birthday" in D it was!

Another neat tool for it is 12-sided musical dice. Or just get a regular 12-sided die and say Ab=1.

[Sunbeam21]

Book 2 Essential Elements is good and the solo books that correlate with Essential Elements
Film Favourites, Movie Favourites etc are really well placed for beginner intermediate level.
Brad Edwards is also great, I like his Lip Slurs book which would be a great investment to see you through many years of playing. As would the Arban.

[comebackplayer]

Hi Everyone, checking back in now after 11 months. In this last year, I:
-Worked primarily on euphonium and got through the first three Standard of Excellence books
-Used Rubank for some really nice exercises it has as well as lots of tunes
-Played some out of Arbans (beginning pages listing fingerings, some of Art of Phrasing songs, a little of the first characteristic study). Arbans was helpful once I'd gotten some basics down better.
-Coming over from trumpet I'm pretty fluent on treble clef and transposing Bb to C
-Found a great low brass teacher who is helping me work on all of this
-One of my kids has been doing euphonium with me, which is fun

I am going to start back in on trombone (and take a breather on euphonium). I find that while before I didn't naturally match positions-to-valves, now I can do that and it helps a lot. I find the trombone requires less air. I still make lots of stupid mistakes, because my middle age brain struggles to relate articulation to slide position while maintaining rhythm and intonation. I'm hoping that improves with time.

I'm super, super, super tempted to get more equipment. I'm on a Jupiter f-attachment ML horn now and am tempted by both large bores and more jazzy, small bore trombones. I think I need to resist the Urge to Buy More Instruments, but the struggle is real

Anyway... this is all to say thank you to the community for getting me started a year ago. I may come back for advice on music on technique. I've struggled to find good church bass music or a fake book with the standard tunes. I'm going to try to be at a legit intermediate level and then start looking for some chances to join a group.

[HTXPosaune]

In addition to skill building with tone/technique that others have suggested, I’d suggest the Voxman “Selected Studies for Trombone” book - this puts an post beginner student on the path towards playing longer etudes/pieces while not being too overwhelming with range and patterns.

[heldenbone]

I'm rather enjoying working my way through Brad Edwards' "Trombone Craft" and "Bass Trombone Craft."