Playing fast on euphonium

[ChuckTbone]

Hey guys I’ve recently started playing euphonium and have been working on it everyday for quite some time and I was wondering if there was any way that could help speed up my fingers in fast sections? I know the fingerings but always have to go slow in faster sections and do not know the best way to be able to go at tempo or faster.
Thanks

[WilliamLang]

fingers go brrrrrr

but i'd recommend working a lot on scales and chromatics. if there's a euphonium version of the Clarke studies that trumpet players do, they can help you build facility. otherwise, just practice with a metronome and speed it up when you are comfortable and consistent at any given speed on any given exercise.

[BGuttman]

fingers go brrrrrr

but i'd recommend working a lot on scales and chromatics. if there's a euphonium version of the Clarke studies that trumpet players do, they can help you build facility. otherwise, just practice with a metronome and speed it up when you are comfortable and consistent at any given speed on any given exercise.

Practice the Clarke studies. Euph players need to learn transposed treble anyway.

There are also great scale and arpeggio studies in Arban's

If you must use bass clef, try out the Mantia Trombone Virtuoso.

You need to build up muscle memory. I found that starting painfully slow and going faster and faster was the biggest help. But it's going to take more than a couple of days.

Note also: if you tongue every note like we do on trombone, that's going to slow you down a lot. The fast Euph players let the valves do the articulations. I have this problem myself. I'm never going to be a speed demon on Euph.

[BrassSection]

Another option is learning the alternate fingerings. Some work great, others require a little lipping to be on pitch, but they are good to know and come in handy on occasion.

[Vegasbound]

As others have said, Clarke, Arban etc lots of alternate fingerings and lip flex and a metronome always play in time, set the metronome and a tempo then increase as you can comfortably play at a tempo

Muscle memory takes time and practice, Euph is a different instrument and the great players such as Glynn Williams, Steve Mead etc don’t double on trombone, remember you blow around a euph not through it

[timothy42b]

Moving a slide fast requires relaxation.
Same for your fingers.
Some of the books say to slam your fingers down. Well, okay, they have to move fast, but they need to stay relaxed, and so does your forearm where most of those muscles are.
When a pianist trills, it looks like only their fingers move, but actually some of the speed comes from forearm rotation, and I think that's true on valves too.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

I was a euphonium player first, then switched to trombone. I also teach a great deal of euphonium players in my studio. Learning fast technique takes time, and every player must approach many things differently depending on the skill sets they currently possess.

There are two things that I emphasize with all of my euphonium students at all levels. If they stick with these concepts consistently, they usually do very well and technique develops naturally and steadily:

1. Your FINGER POSITION and FINGER STROKE TECHNIQUE can greatly impact your quickness on the instrument. These are the things that I emphasize with finger technique:

*Hand/finger position must create a downward stroke, not a diagonal or sideways stroke. The downward stroke is created by making sure ALL of the knuckles are above the valve finger buttons and the CONTACT POINT for the finger button should be exactly between the center of your finger print and the tip of your finger.

I have attached three photos below of my right hand on a King 2280 euphonium (it just happened to be the closest euphonium). The first photo shows the proper hand/finger position....notice that all knuckles are above the finger buttons and the only point of contact is just a bit in from my finger tips. The second photo shows playing with middle of fingers....usually very slow. The third photo shows all of the knuckles either even or below the finger button level (sorry, this is tricky to show in a photo).....in addition to being slow, this can sometimes cause the valves to stick because they are being pushed sideways instead of straight down and up. A student who has this hand position can easily create a better hand position by moving the hand up and slightly forward so that the knuckles closest to the finger nails are almost directly above the finger buttons.

*All knuckles should be angled outwards at ALL TIMES. This includes when the piston is engaged. When knuckles invert (like a double jointed finger), the technique will usually slow down.

*Think about the fingers you are not using! When you are pushing down 2nd valve, are your other fingers contorting and moving away from their assigned finger buttons? If yes, your technique is very inefficient. Practice moving individual valves (all three or four of them) down and up repeatedly and DO NOT ALLOW the other fingers to move at all! If you do this consistently, each finger will develop its individual muscle group and your finger muscles will have great independence.

Granted, I have seen many professionals who have "less than perfect" hand position and technique and they are still able to play quickly. At least with proper hand/finger position and technique, a student should have a better chance of advancing quickly without obstacles.

2. The fastest way to develop fast fingering technique with steady rhythm is to EMPHASIZE SLURRING IN YOUR PRACTICE ROUTINES. Why? When you slur long flourishes, the inconsistencies and unsteadiness in your rhythm/technique are much easier to hear. Thus, practicing a lot of slurring automatically makes your fingering, rhythm and technique more consistent. Yes, you will need to practice the coordination of tonguing and fingering, but at least the fine-tuning of fingering and rhythm steadiness is already built into your routine. These are the patterns that my euphonium players play regularly, ALL SLURRED! Also remember that the finger position and finger independence discussed in #1 should be a big priority.......

*One octave chromatic scales up and down in one breath. Practice these starting on EVERY CHROMATIC PITCH. These should be practiced with two different feels......three sets of 16ths and four sets of triplets in each direction.

*Small clusters of chromatics with many repetitions in one breath. Four pitch clusters felt in triplets. Five pitch clusters felt in 16ths. Do this starting on EVERY CHROMATIC PITCH.

*FIVE PITCH major scales and minor scales. I prefer that my students slur up and down four times in one breath. Again, all pitches should be used as a starting point. This means all 12 majors and all 12 minors. Since it is a five pitch scale, there is only a one pitch (third note) difference between major and minor.

*Eventually, I like to have my students play 2 octave major and harmonic minor scales in slurs and marcato. The goal is to do all of them in rapid 16ths and DO NOT play the tonic (first step of the scale) longer than the other pitches.

I am sorry that my entry is so long. It's just when I see a system work for many years with dozens of students, I feel like it is worth sharing. I hope this is helpful.


https://trombonechat.com/download/file. ... w&id=15828

https://trombonechat.com/download/file. ... w&id=15827

https://trombonechat.com/download/file. ... w&id=15826

[greenbean]

Thanks, Brian. Some great ideas here!

[BrassedOn]

LTTP;

I hope the Euph-ing is going well.

As above…
And I’d add playing actual euph band parts etc. not just etudes.

The “play 1000 times sloooow, before you try a passage fast” strategy is an oldie but a goodie. Just remember monitor your technique.

You’ll see it, the fingers flying up on the upstroke, or far above valves or curled out of position when not in use, but for a lot of players this ultimately causes some slow down. So be sure when playing passages slow, the fingertips stay on or just a mm or so above the buttons.

Video yourself, close up of valves, then playback slow-mo and check your hand position (described above) and how much extra throw is in your fingers. What you do at slower tempos are often magnified at faster tempo.

[hyperbolica]

I don't want to contradict anything anyone has said, because I'm a pretty bad valve player, but I learned trombone from someone who started on valves.

The fastest way to play anything is to not do it or do less of it. On trombone that means alternate positions. Keep moving the same direction as long as you can for a string of notes.

On valves that means moving as few fingers as possible. Alternate fingerings don't sound so bad when they are flying by quickly. Plus, if you can get notes without moving fingers (a string of 12 or 13 notes even if some of them could be played open) will be faster.

Someone already mentioned slurring. You can move notes faster if you don't have to coordinate chops, tongue and fingers.

[PhilE]

Thanks Brian
That's very helpful

[robcat2075]

Has anyone mentioned "fast practice" also-known-as "add a note"?

If you have a particular passage at stake...

[HTXPosaune]

+1 for Jason’s approach here!

I’d also not shy away from being very deliberate and energetic when you push the valves down and up. It’s easy to not fully engage the piston 1. Out of fear of making too much noise or causing too much movement with the horn or 2. Trying to “get through” the technique.

Moving the valves should be audible and and felt as you play. Being accurate with this allows the air to flow the vibration of your lips and the air column to be continuous.

TLDR slam the valves down.

[AndrewMeronek]

I am not any kind of competent euphonium player, but in times when I've had to wing it, I found it much, much easier to deal with a euph. that had the 4th valve on the bottom of the horn (engaged with a left hand finger) instead of in the main right-handed set.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

I am not any kind of competent euphonium player, but in times when I've had to wing it, I found it much, much easier to deal with a euph. that had the 4th valve on the bottom of the horn (engaged with a left hand finger) instead of in the main right-handed set.

It all depends on what you are accustomed to. Many trombone players that pick up a 3+1 euphonium take to it very quickly because they relate the left hand valve to the left hand thumb on an F-attachment trombone.

I spent years of my life playing on a non-compensating 4 valve (all on the right hand) euphonium and then switched to a 3+1 compensating instrument in my 20s. Since I logged in thousands of hours on the 4-on-right model as a teenager, I can get around very quickly on it with almost no practice time, even with the odd fingerings below the staff. Strangely, it is the compensating model that takes me longer to get acclimated on when I start up playing euphonium for a season with a concert band or brass band. After about 2 or 3 hours of slurred scales, the compensating horn gets pretty comfortable and everything flows.