Tell me what horn(s) to consider please

[Model34]

All I want is a great modular that plays great as a straight tenor and also plays great with the valve section installed!

Recently I bought a Bach Artisan Strad A47BO. Produces a good Bach sound. Valve is good, but not as good as the valve on my 88HSGXCL. This STERLING BELL Conn has very good tone quality, but is very heavy and difficult to hold. I’m old. I want to covert to a light straight horn when the trigger isn’t really needed. Naïvely, I thought I could do just that by adding the straight gooseneck to my A47! To my utter shock and dismay I’ve discovered swapping to the gooseneck produces a very bad straight trombone! I just can’t believe a gooseneck can do so much damage to the sound from tuning Bb and up! Not to mention the ergos are horrible! Bach is not the answer to my quest!

I would really like to hear from those of you whom are delighted with the sound on both sides of your instrument, straight and triggered. Since I’m old, 78, but not dead yet, ergonomics are important to my old arthritic hands. Also I’m a caregiver for my wife, so overnight trips to boutiques are out.

I eagerly await your advice.

[Matt K]

If you have an 88 already and you generally like it, I’d probably co sister getting an 8H bell section instead of getting something modular.

[ithinknot]

As you own it already, it might still be worth trying the straight 47 with a counterweight and grip aid of some sort. It's possible that at least some of the 'very badness' comes from a different horn angle and it not landing on your face the way you'd expect.

But it might just stink in that configuration. I picked up a used straight neckpipe for the Rath R4F I've had since 2006. No alignment/fit issues, ergonomics are fine. Just awful. Like, 'absolute nope' bad. My teacher way back played a terrific straight (premodular) R4, and I have a TR156 that plays great. I have no doubt you can spec a straight R4 that plays well, but this isn't it.

Modularity is a great way of trying out combinations, and some things are predictable, but it's still surprising how extreme the best and worst can be.

Matt's right - in your shopping situation, it might be easiest to just buy a straight horn that you like. I'd be intrigued to hear from people who love both versions of a convertible horn equally, but you'd still need to try ergonomics for yourself.

[Finetales]

The convertible K&H Slokar trombones might be exactly what you're looking for. Very ergonomics-minded, and apparently extremely comfortable as a result.

[Reedman1]

Butler carbon fiber trombones are really nice. I play the JJ .508 model; it weighs 1.5 lbs. it’s a little front-heavy, but not terribly so. And I get unsolicited compliments on my sound.

[Burgerbob]

2nd an 8H.

[brassmedic]

The straight Bach 42 neckpipe doesn't play the same as the valve neckpipe because the neckpipe they use with the valve is a much larger diameter. I developed a replacement straight neckpipe that is a larger diameter, which solves that problem. But what I think you should ask yourself is why you want a "lighter" instrument. I've always maintained that it's not overall weight that determines the ergonomics of a trombone, but rather the balance. When you take the valve off to make it lighter, it becomes front-heavy, and is even more difficult to hold. So then you have to put a counterweight on to balance it, so you are adding back the weight that you just removed. So what's the point?

[Matt K]

I have had a similar experience to the Rath mentioned above. Although to be fair, the neck pipe is per usual for me, a Frankenstein part. Originally Edwards, I had a spare tuning slide receiver and bell mounting hardware so I converted it to shires. I’ve done similar before and been quite lucky. First dud I’ve really had. Alignment is good too because I had the tuning slide and bell at yhe local tech where I used to live. I think it might bed too “open” but I’m not sure of that. I would be surprised if Edwards tapers were undersized. But I’ve been surprised before

[atopper333]

A third for the 8H. I just picked up and 8HT and love the response. It feels rather light and plays very well. Also had a Holton large bore straight tenor, a TR107 that became a present for the old man as he loves Holton horns. Also another good pick…

[hyperbolica]

Yeah, 8h. Modular looks good on paper, but it turns out to be a bad compromise. I've had an '68 88h Elkhart since the 70s (got it second hand), and a '58 8h bell section to go with it has been one of my better purchases. Not sure how it's going to compare to your SGX, but 8h is glorious. You might be able to get just a bell section.

Actually, being older you might also enjoy it with an sl2525 slide. Fantastic combination. Lightens the weight and the blow, still a glorious and flexible instrument. Unless I need a small bore, my 8h and 79h are my go-to horns.

[greenbean]

Piling on, I guess…

An 8H would probably make you happy.

[Model34]

Thank you for your replies, but alas, I’ve decided to try one more time to get a convertible that works. To wit: I ordered a QAlessi from Dillon, and a gooseneck & counterweight from Milano. I’m pitting this model against the standard Q30R which Music&Arts is getting in for me to try next week from one of their stores that had it in stock. Thank you again. I’ll let you know how it goes next weekend, if everything gets here I want to try.


I’m going to go three ways: 1. Taking your consensus, changed the title of this post and putting a parameter on it. 2. As stated immediately above. 3. Can my sterling bell SGX convert to a straight tenor? Is the bell itself the same whether straight horn or valve? If so, whom could I trust to do it right?

[greenbean]

You are in TX? I would use Eric Edwards. He is in Highland Village.

972.795.5784
[email protected]

[OneTon]

I am 69, have had arthritis since the 7th grade and had it in my hands for the last few years. I have a left shoulder injury that no one wants to fix. I was also one of the last buck sergeants in the USAF before they eliminated the rank. For me, total weight and ergonomics compete to adversely aggravate pain. A King duo Gravis lights things off pretty quickly. Perhaps it is the worst of all possible worlds. If things are acting up a King 2B can get painful in a rehearsal too. The Ergo Bone works but is awkward.

I have a straight Bach LT42G that is easier on the joints than my Bach LT42AG Hagmann. The LT42G gets a great sound that competes with an 88H that got stolen in the mi 1970’s. I picked up a Conn 79H that is better ergonomically than the Hagmann valve for me. It gets a little bright and splashy up high but not fatally. It is manageable. Curiosity got the better of me. I am waiting for parts to complete a Shires 0.525 double string valve tenor. I don’t know if I will spring for a straight gooseneck or not.

On those occasions when I exhibit a perfect storm of symptoms, I keep my chops up on an Olds Ambassador cornet and use a YSL-697 at rehearsals. The cornet does not seem to mess me up. I have Wycliffe Gordon Pickett trombone size mouthpiece adapted for cornet but I have not used it enough to comment yet.

In any case, getting old is not for wimps.

[musicofnote]

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[Model34]

Thank you Tom Rice! I contacted Eric, he has the gooseneck on order and will covert my 88HSGXCL to a straight 8H with a sterling silver bell soon. Did Conn ever make an 8H w/sterling bell? I’ve never seen or heard of one. So step 1. Above doesn’t need to be done any longer, step 2. Dillon Shipped today, and waiting for M&A to let me know their horn is in. step 3. Will begin soon. Things are zipping right along.

[Burgerbob]

Don't forget a counterweight!

[Model34]

Gooseneck & counterweight are here from Milano. New: Ordered a ns leadpipe for my MG from Husonics in Tampa today. It sounds interesting per another post about it. I wish Shires offered ns bell options. Had an R3 w/ns bell. It offered a dark, clear, crisp sound that was quite pleasing. Another horn I should have kept. M&A called. I’m going to try out the TBQ30R Friday, and compare it side by side with the TBQALESSI. Will report on my findings.

[Doug Elliott]

The convertible K&H Slokar trombones might be exactly what you're looking for. Very ergonomics-minded, and apparently extremely comfortable as a result.

That is exactly what I have, actually an extra slide and the convertible parts for two complete horns. It's fantastic both ways, and by far the most ergonomically comfortable large bore.