A47BO Gooseneck design problem

[Model34]

Recently acquired a Bach A47BO. Very nice horn, great Bach sound etc. It doesn’t have the fit and finish of my Shires Gilkes, nor the Getzen Bousfield horn. But it is the sound and weight I bought it for. Much lighter physically than the 88HGSXCL it replaces! But the CL valve is more open. Since I’ve played straight tenors almost all my life, 68 years on slide so far. I ordered the gooseneck accessory for my new A47. I have fairly large hands, XL glove size. I swapped the gooseneck into place. Using the brace in the normal tenor trombone manner would require me to have the left hand thumb of an orangutan. Not to mention this leaves the horn utterly unbalanced. ABSOLUTELY NOT RECOMMENDED!!!

[Burgerbob]

Like with most straight horns, you need a counterweight to play it that way.

I do have to agree though, I actually just found it to play worse than the valve section and never used mine.

[Matt K]

A lot of people prefer the way Shiresbhandles this where the brace is straight rather than “S” shaped and then another device is added to position where the thumb naturally fits for the individual. I happen to like the “S” brace but I do agree that on a large bore I wouldn’t want to ply without a counterweight. I had such a brace added to a Shires valve section and now play an Edwards neckpipe which has it as the default. It almost sounds as though the bell brace on the A47 is too high to make this work and they took an off the shelf part and just used it. But I can’t think of another trombone CS makes that has a “S” shaped brace.

If you did want to go that route I don’t think you’d have too difficult a time of it. You can get something like a bullet brace or a shires thumb rest for around $130 and I don’t imagine a good tech would have too rough a time at swapping for a straight brace. But that’s also probably more I’m labor than you paid for the neckpipe unless these things have radically gone up in price (the whole neck pipe assembly used to perplexingly be $150 from Hickeys).

[hyperbolica]

If you did want to go that route I don’t think you’d have too difficult a time of it. You can get something like a bullet brace or a shires thumb rest for around $130 and I don’t imagine a good tech would have too rough a time at swapping for a straight brace. But that’s also probably more I’m labor than you paid for the neckpipe unless these things have radically gone up in price (the whole neck pipe assembly used to perplexingly be $150 from Hickeys).

Even my 8h requires a double jointed thumb (which I have), but it's still uncomfortable. A bullet brace or similar is next on my list. Or I've often thought a thumb ring interrupting the main bell brace would be a cool thing to have. Bullet brace will be simpler, cheaper, and reversible, however.

The Conn 78h (straight) and 79h (f attachment) are essentially the same horn but the slides are built differently, such that the stationary slide brace on the 78 slide is closer to the mouthpiece to match the thumb position which is further back. This means that the slides aren't really interchangeable. The 78h slide on a 79h will feel like it's made for kids hands, and a 79h slide on a 78h will feel like you mention, the orangutan grip.

[Matt K]

I think the problem with a ring is that the bell posts are typically brazed (I would not at all be dogmatic about that assertion though). Something like the Shires is probably ideal if I’m being honest. It’s soldered but adjustable.

I like mine to be very sturdy so I tend to have whatever solution soldered or brazed in place if possible. But that also means probably unsoldering if I went to sell. Although I’ve been using the Greenhoe ones so maybe not. They seem pretty straightforward. Another benefit to the Shires is they come with the neoprene sleeve. Something I wished mine had but I did the next best thing and had a tech add some thick cork to where it makes contact with my skin so it’s quite comfortable.

[Thrawn22]

Even my 8h requires a double jointed thumb (which I have), but it's still uncomfortable. A bullet brace or similar is next on my list. Or I've often thought a thumb ring interrupting the main bell brace would be a cool thing to have. Bullet brace will be simpler, cheaper, and reversible, however.

The Conn 78h (straight) and 79h (f attachment) are essentially the same horn but the slides are built differently, such that the stationary slide brace on the 78 slide is closer to the mouthpiece to match the thumb position which is further back. This means that the slides aren't really interchangeable. The 78h slide on a 79h will feel like it's made for kids hands, and a 79h slide on a 78h will feel like you mention, the orangutan grip.

Elkhart 8Hs and 78Hs from what i can tell have the same length neckpipe which is shorter than modern 8Hs. I think the shorter neckpipe kept the bell brace and flange in the same spot as an 88H (though i haven't tested that theory yet). I agree the grip is a bit uncomfortable even for my big hands.

I've been wanting to get an Axe Handle from Instrument Innovations for my 8H but i don't think they make one that fits the thickness of an 8H/78H bell brace.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Many times the problem of a “long thumb reach” is not in the bell section. It can actually be in the slide section.

I resurrected a 1920s Conn 8H a few years ago. I mated it with a 1960s Elkhart 8H/88H slide that I rebuilt. The thumb reach was very uncomfortable. I found this perplexing because the bell brace was as far forward as it could be. The bell brace flange actually barely allowed the bell lock nut to come loose to separate the bell from the slide.

I decided to remove about 1/2 inch of lower inner slide between the cork barrel and the tapered tenon. Actually, most the tubing was from the tenon piece, but it was the straight tube part on the other side of the threads. The results were great and made the left hand grip much more comfortable. It did alter the slide positions relative to the bell, but actually made it more congruent with what I normally estimate 3rd and 4th position to be when I first play on a trombone.

I know that the OP probably doesn’t want to alter the slide. However, if the F-attachment seems to be a long reach back, it could be a beneficial option for both the F-section and the straight gooseneck.

[Model34]

Just for kicks, my mod for the problem on my 88HSGXCL.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Hey Model34,

The OP is concerned about the reach on a straight gooseneck, not an F-attachment horn. However, I guess a ring like that could be attached to a straight gooseneck bell section……is that what you are suggesting?

There would not be any room on the slide receiver. It would need to be attached to the bell brace.