Olds Collection Growing

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:20 pm

Newest addition: 1955 Standard.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:02 pm

Beautiful. Original lacquer? How does she play?

Kevbach33 · Post by **Kevbach33** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:05 pm

Boy, that's nice. If only the Olds Standard got the love that the Super and Recording do...

When was this version of the Standard introduced? When was it discontinued? Does it take the old Olds mouthpiece shank? Are the inners round or duo-octagonal? Other specs of note?

This certainly looks like the real competitor to the Conn 6H of the era. I'd love to noodle on it or a similar Standard. They must not be that common since this is the first one I've heard of from the 50's.

Lisa2 · Post by **Lisa2** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:07 pm

I have an Olds trombone, serial number M1021 that I believe dates it back to the late teens. An unusual item is that it has a wooden handle on the slide that appears to be factory made. I can't find any information relative to this feature. Do you know if this was an option in the catalogs at that time?

Regards,

Jeff
Lisa2
[email protected]

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:12 pm

I've never seen an Olds Standard in the wild. This one may be unusual. I thought most standards were tuning-in-the slide, but these instruments were far from "standardized!" Bell sizes apparently ranged from 6", 7", 7½", or 8" and bore sizes also varied (0.485"/0.500", 0.495"/0.510", 0.510"/0.525" w/ F-attachment). I guess Standard was a bit of a catch-all name.

I'd also be interested in the specs of this one. I'm a little confused about the manufacture date of 1955, since Olds' factory moved from Los Angeles to Fullerton in August 1954, but the bell is clearly engraved Los Angeles.

Post by **BGuttman** » Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:37 am

Lisa2 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:07 pm I have an Olds trombone, serial number M1021 that I believe dates it back to the late teens. An unusual item is that it has a wooden handle on the slide that appears to be factory made. I can't find any information relative to this feature. Do you know if this was an option in the catalogs at that time?

Regards,

Jeff
Lisa2
[email protected]

There were after market handles added to slides to help younger players reach the outer positions. My 1925 Olds has tuning in slide, and is labeled LM with an 8" bell but has no handle on it.

If it's in G, it would have a handle on the slide, but I'm not aware of Olds making G bass trombones. If it's really a G Bass, the slide would be VERY long (too long for any human to reach the outer positions).

Maybe a couple of pictures could help. Our Olds expert (JLowe) could be a big help.

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:31 pm

Posaunus wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:12 pm I've never seen an Olds Standard in the wild. This one may be unusual. I thought most standards were tuning-in-the slide, but these instruments were far from "standardized!" Bell sizes apparently ranged from 6", 7", 7½", or 8" and bore sizes also varied (0.485"/0.500", 0.495"/0.510", 0.510"/0.525" w/ F-attachment). I guess Standard was a bit of a catch-all name.

I'd also be interested in the specs of this one. I'm a little confused about the manufacture date of 1955, since Olds' factory moved from Los Angeles to Fullerton in August 1954, but the bell is clearly engraved Los Angeles.

I used the serial number list at Horn-u-Copia to date this one. If there's a better reference I'd appreciate a link.

According to that list the number 15000 was originally used in 1947. It was used again in 1955 when the bone/trumpet serial numbers were combined (in 1954). I know this horn is NOT from 1947 because I have one (see attached photos) and the bell engraving is much different on this "newer" horn.

As to the date of 1955 and LA, all I can guess is that the move from LA to Fullerton that began in August of 1954 took a while and/or this horn was left over from LA after the move. If anyone has more info I'd sure appreciate it.

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:36 pm

Posaunus wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:02 pm Beautiful. Original lacquer? How does she play?

Yes, all original and it plays wonderfully.

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:40 pm

Kevbach33 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 10:05 pm Boy, that's nice. If only the Olds Standard got the love that the Super and Recording do...

When was this version of the Standard introduced? When was it discontinued? Does it take the old Olds mouthpiece shank? Are the inners round or duo-octagonal? Other specs of note?

This certainly looks like the real competitor to the Conn 6H of the era. I'd love to noodle on it or a similar Standard. They must not be that common since this is the first one I've heard of from the 50's.

I don't have any information on this horn other than what I originally posted. I've never seen a Standard with this particular engraving so it's a bit of a mystery to me. As to specs it's got the duo-octo inner slide and is dual bore. The bell measures 7.5". Besides the bell engraving, the first thing I noticed about it was that the bell section braces are straight and completely round whereas on my 1947 Standard they're in a shape I can't describe other than saying they're "twisted".

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Fri Nov 12, 2021 2:44 pm

officermayo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:31 pm
Posaunus wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:12 pm
I'd also be interested in the specs of this one. I'm a little confused about the manufacture date of 1955, since Olds' factory moved from Los Angeles to Fullerton in August 1954, but the bell is clearly engraved Los Angeles.
I used the serial number list at Horn-u-Copia to date this one. If there's a better reference I'd appreciate a link.

According to that list the number 15000 was originally used in 1947. It was used again in 1955 when the bone/trumpet serial numbers were combined (in 1954). I know this horn is NOT from 1947 because I have one (see attached photos) and the bell engraving is much different on this "newer" horn.

As to the date of 1955 and LA, all I can guess is that the move from LA to Fullerton that began in August of 1954 took a while and/or this horn was left over from LA after the move. If anyone has more info I'd sure appreciate it.

The engraving is unfamiliar to me. I know Olds used that engraving at some point, but I thought that it was late Fullerton (1970s).

Our resident Olds experts John L can probably enlighten us.

I am surprised that this apparently wonderful closet queen has the duo-octagonal slides. Good on ya!

Serial numbers (alternate list):

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:57 pm

Here's the serial number.

JohnL · Post by **JohnL** » Fri Nov 12, 2021 11:13 pm

officermayo wrote: ↑Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:31 pmI used the serial number list at Horn-u-Copia to date this one. If there's a better reference I'd appreciate a link.

According to that list the number 15000 was originally used in 1947. It was used again in 1955 when the bone/trumpet serial numbers were combined (in 1954). I know this horn is NOT from 1947 because I have one (see attached photos) and the bell engraving is much different on this "newer" horn.

As to the date of 1955 and LA, all I can guess is that the move from LA to Fullerton that began in August of 1954 took a while and/or this horn was left over from LA after the move. If anyone has more info I'd sure appreciate it.

If you take another look at the serial number list, the 1955 serial numbers have six digits...

15xxx is from the mid-1940's; right after WWII. The style of engraving is consistent with that era, as is the smooth tenon nut.

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:16 am

Ok. My bad vision in the one eye that works is the culprit. Thanks for the correction. So horn in first pic is 1946 and second pic is 1947? Their engraving and braces are completely different. What caused the radical redesign in '47?

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 3:19 pm

I knew I'd seen that engraving before - just forgot where. Not late Fullerton ... but immediate post-WWII Los Angeles (1946-1947?). [Thanks, JohnL] Apparently they later changed that, experimenting with different engraving schemes. Here's a photo of the bell of my 1954 Olds Studio (Los Angeles, S/N 1141xx).

Apparently, there's not much about Olds that remained "standard" for long.

JohnL · Post by **JohnL** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 6:21 pm

officermayo wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:16 amWhat caused the radical redesign in '47?

There were a lot of things happening around that time. It took a while for most companies to get back on a peacetime footing; work forces had to be rebuilt, supply chains re-established, mothballed equipment put back in good working order, lost tooling found or replaced. In Olds' case, you also had the change in ownership and management (CMI taking over and bringing in Foster Reynolds) and the significant increase in production volume over pre-war levels that came with that change.

Case in point - the yellow tone ring Supers. They show up in the 17xxx-20xxx serial range, then disappear again.

Some theories...

The "simple" Standard is exactly what I'd expect for the first model to go back in production. Conventional braces, simplified engraving - something that they could get out the door quickly and in quantity. Yes, it has duo-octagonal inners - but those may have been out of pre-war stock.

The serpentine braces may have been a way to separate the Standard from the Special when it was introduced. Olds had a habit of producing several models that were basically the same instrument in different materials with different "trim".

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:30 pm

I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge of Olds trombones with me.
This particular horn was a bit of a mystery. Now knowing it's MUCH older than
I was lead to believe (by the seller) it's even more amazing what great shape it's in.

Btw - found this photo on the web and thought of you.

Lisa2 · Post by **Lisa2** » Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:35 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 11, 2021 3:37 am
Lisa2 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:07 pm I have an Olds trombone, serial number M1021 that I believe dates it back to the late teens. An unusual item is that it has a wooden handle on the slide that appears to be factory made. I can't find any information relative to this feature. Do you know if this was an option in the catalogs at that time?

Regards,

Jeff
Lisa2
[email protected]
There were after market handles added to slides to help younger players reach the outer positions. My 1925 Olds has tuning in slide, and is labeled LM with an 8" bell but has no handle on it.

If it's in G, it would have a handle on the slide, but I'm not aware of Olds making G bass trombones. If it's really a G Bass, the slide would be VERY long (too long for any human to reach the outer positions).

Maybe a couple of pictures could help. Our Olds expert (JLowe) could be a big help.

Bruce,

I've attached some pictures of the above mentioned Olds trombone showing the slides and handle. Any information on this model would be appreciated.

Regards,

Jeff

JohnL · Post by **JohnL** » Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:31 pm

Lisa2 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 11:07 pm I have an Olds trombone, serial number M1021 that I believe dates it back to the late teens. An unusual item is that it has a wooden handle on the slide that appears to be factory made. I can't find any information relative to this feature. Do you know if this was an option in the catalogs at that time?

The oldest catalogs I've seem are from the mid-1920's; I've never seen a handle like that in any of their advertising materials, but that doesn't mean that they wouldn't add one if someone asked for it. Olds was a small shop back then and I suspect that a little custom modification like that would be well within their wheelhouse. Than again, I've known some repair techs that could do mods that looked for all the world like the horn was built that way.

The detachable J-bend is something I've seen on a few Olds trombones; since they couldn't do high-pitch/low-pitch tuning slides like some other companies did, Olds made it possible to swap out the J-bend. That looks like a low pitch part, but I think I see a little wear to the case lining just below the music lyre head from the high pitch part.

Do you know anything about the history of this trombone? A lot of the ones with the detachable J-bend seem to have been built for export to Commonwealth countries where high pitch was still common.

Lisa2 · Post by **Lisa2** » Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:30 pm

Olds trombone

I don’t have much history on this trombone. It was my late father’s trombone and I believe he acquired it from a shop in Connecticut in the 50’s. I appreciate the background information.

Regards,

Jeff
Lisa2

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:17 am

Today I added a 1944 military model to the herd.
Wondering what model these were based upon.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:57 pm

officermayo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:17 am Today I added a 1944 military model to the herd.
Wondering what model these were based upon.

JohnL knows all!

JohnL · Post by **JohnL** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:28 pm

officermayo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:17 am Today I added a 1944 military model to the herd.
Wondering what model these were based upon.

Olds had an actual model call the Military (which, as far as I know, was never actual sold to the military). They were marked as the "Military Model"; hand-hammered finish was standard on them, and the ones I've seen are quite "narrow" (short braces). Here's mine:
http://itsabear.com/horns/Military/military.html

What you've got there is a US-marked Olds; it appears to be based on the pre-WWII Standard Self-Balancing. I've seen other US-marked Olds that look a lot like an A-20 Ambassador; here's mine:
http://itsabear.com/horns/US-Marked/US-Marked.html

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Mon Nov 22, 2021 6:55 pm

JohnL wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 3:28 pm What you've got there is a US-marked Olds; it appears to be based on the pre-WWII Standard Self-Balancing. I've seen other US-marked Olds that look a lot like an A-20 Ambassador; here's mine:
http://itsabear.com/horns/US-Marked/US-Marked.html

Once again you're a veritable cornucopia, a plethora - if you will, of information concerning Olds trombones.
I thank you for allowing me to be a sponge to your fountain of knowledge.

One questions though - why did Olds make a "Military Model" but not sell them to the military?

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:11 pm

Information on the case indicates the original owner of this trombone was the University of North Dakota.

SlideCrook · Post by **SlideCrook** » Fri Nov 26, 2021 1:50 pm

I believe Olds called the model “Military” as a nod to the brilliance, fanfare, and exactness of the military. While the hand-hammered finish was an extra charge in the other models, it was standard on the military, to “dazzle the imagination”.

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Fri Nov 26, 2021 3:51 pm

Wow! I'd love to see the rest of that publication.

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:22 pm

My life summed up in a meme.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:10 pm

officermayo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:22 pm My life summed up in a meme.

I think it's time to change your Avatar photo - you should be holding an Olds, not a King!

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Mon Nov 29, 2021 9:15 pm

Posaunus wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:10 pm I think it's time to change your Avatar photo - you should be holding an Olds, not a King!

Yeah, you're right, but that King belonged to my father. Sentimental Journey so to speak.

Anyway, I'm taking your advice.

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:54 pm

Just added this 1939 Super to the herd.
Friction fit, no slide lock and original faux alligator case.

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Sun Dec 05, 2021 10:29 pm

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Thu Dec 09, 2021 11:47 am

Newest addition to the Olds LA collection - 1950 Ambassador.

michaelegan · Post by **michaelegan** » Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:02 pm

I have an Olds P-16 if you are interested....played very open and powerful at first, but when I took out the leadpipe to use a Shires, the playability went WAY up. Some lacquer issues, and I think the 6oz. counter-balance is too much. Slide is a 9-9.5 and no wear.

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:53 am

michaelegan wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:02 pm I have an Olds P-16 if you are interested....played very open and powerful at first, but when I took out the leadpipe to use a Shires, the playability went WAY up. Some lacquer issues, and I think the 6oz. counter-balance is too much. Slide is a 9-9.5 and no wear.

Thanks for the offer, but I only collect LA horns.

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:39 pm

Just snagged this Military model to add to the LA collection.
Serial number is 7797ML so it seems to have been made around 1931.
Any expert information is appreciated.

OneTon · Post by **OneTon** » Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:51 pm

Nice horn. I believe Bruno Mars’ trombone player is playing a Military.

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:04 pm

Today for my 63rd birthday I pulled the trigger on the last horn needed to complete my LA Olds collection - a 1947 Recording.

OneTon · Post by **OneTon** » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:26 pm

Congratulations.

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:50 am

OneTon wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:26 pm Congratulations.

THANKS!

I started a Olds Trombone subreddit a few months back, but apparently not many folks are interested.

OneTon · Post by **OneTon** » Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:28 pm

Ok. What is a subreddit?

officermayo · Post by **officermayo** » Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:49 pm

OneTon wrote: ↑Fri Sep 30, 2022 1:28 pm Ok. What is a subreddit?

On Reddit there are categories of subjects called subreddits.

https://www.reddit.com/r/OldsTrombones? ... urce=share

DougHulme · Post by **DougHulme** » Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:54 am

I too love Olds horns but I like the post LA horns just as much, if not more, and some of the very last offerings were the best on the market and hold their own today, even when compared to the many 'boutique' horns now available. Zig Kanstul had a profound influence on the world of brass makers that continued to the day he died. Maybe you would have had a greater response if you had opened it up to the later models as well? I still think those Recordings (old or late) are the best looking trombone ever 'mass' made and with a weight on the end they still play brilliantly (says a bass trombonist who rarely ever plays a tenor these days!). Also I dont do Reddit ... Doug