How to improve my resume so it doesn't get tossed?

[robcat2075]

...Some trombone professors have been honest enough to tell me not to bother applying because either they aren't setup for non-traditional folks like me or they don't want to invest in someone who doesn't have 50 years of performing ahead of them...

That is an interesting (although unsurprising) conceit for them to harbor since it is a rare university professor whose pay or job security is at all affected by the post-graduation attainments by their former students in the targeted job market.

Just about every teacher in the arts or humanities would be SOL if they ever had to show that even a notable fraction of their protégés were gainfully employed in their field.

The difference in career outcome between you and most of the 20-somethings they want to take instead is so small it's probably imaginary.

"...aren't setup for non-traditional folks..."

Other than age, what is that?

Are you in an iron lung? Is there an assistance animal involved? Do you emit strange radiation because our Sun is different from that of your home world?

You will show up for the same lessons, practice the same etudes, rehearse in the same ensembles, play the same recital as the other students and if you can't manage that they can cast you off like any other student.

If they are just trying to diplomatically avert your interest without telling you they think you aren't up to it, they ought to tell you straight, but "non-traditional" is a manufactured concern.

[TexasTBone]

"...aren't setup for non-traditional folks..."

Other than age, what is that?

People with full-time jobs, families, and other more significant life obligations that 18-25 year old college students don't typically have to deal with. This is why my formal music education is an AA, not a BA. All but one of my classes have been in the evening. It's not until you get to a Masters program that the programs are designed to work around professional obligations.

[robcat2075]

"...aren't setup for non-traditional folks..."

Other than age, what is that?

People with full-time jobs, families, and other more significant life obligations that 18-25 year old college students don't typically have to deal with...

It's true that those are not the college students that we traditionally see in the movies wearing the raccoon coats, but they are the more common ones today.


Typical College Student No Longer So Typical

This past weekend, dorms across the country started to fill up with new students, fresh out of high school, ready to start their four years of college, which is how most of us might describe the typical freshman.

But it's been nearly a decade since the National Center for Education Statistics announced that 73 percent of all undergraduates don't fit that mold.

In fact, the typical college student in America has a job, a family, is enrolled part-time or some combination of all three. So how do those students change the face of higher education?

The traditional student is probably still the norm at expensive private schools. But everywhere else?

[TexasTBone]

The traditional student is probably still the norm at expensive private schools. But everywhere else?

Things like distance courses and evening or weekend classes are exceedingly rare in undergraduate music programs. And then there are the programs that require stuff like four semesters of marching band and four semesters of basketball band as a degree requirement.

[LeTromboniste]

People with full-time jobs, families, and other more significant life obligations that 18-25 year old college students don't typically have to deal with...

It's true that those are not the college students that we traditionally see in the movies wearing the raccoon coats, but they are the more common ones today.


Typical College Student No Longer So Typical

This past weekend, dorms across the country started to fill up with new students, fresh out of high school, ready to start their four years of college, which is how most of us might describe the typical freshman.

But it's been nearly a decade since the National Center for Education Statistics announced that 73 percent of all undergraduates don't fit that mold.

In fact, the typical college student in America has a job, a family, is enrolled part-time or some combination of all three. So how do those students change the face of higher education?

The traditional student is probably still the norm at expensive private schools. But everywhere else?

Like some of the resume advice discussed above, maybe applicable in some fields, not in music.

Music programmes are overwhelmingly full of young students in their 20s. It's not at all uncommon for conservatories to have a policy of limiting the age to under 30 or so, especially for undergrad programs (or at least, favouring the younger applicant when two or more competing for the same spot have comparable level). Obviously more common for grad studies, especially doctorate level. In my 10+ years studying or taking "continuing education" at 4 different music universities, I can probably count on one hand the people I've met who were doing undergrad past 30, and I think only one of them was performance major. Music programs are extremely expensive for universities, enrollment is limited, and course selection is not like in any other field, with fewer choices and more classes that need to be taken in sequence. Where 3-credit classes are the norm on every other field, they usually aren't at music schools; you typically have quite a few 1 and 2 credit courses as well, so more classes per semester. Very few evening classes, lots of early morning and mid-afternoon classes. Often big gaps in your days that are not long enough to take off and go work. Lots of practical performance classes (ensembles and such) that are mandatory but offered only at very specific times. Oh, and the expectation that you'll practice your instrument 20+ hours per week on top of classes, time spent studying and completing assignments, and practicing your secondary instrument...So very difficult if not virtually impossible to combine with a full-time job, family obligations, etc. Plus, half the point of attending music school is becoming part of the community, meeting people, making contacts for the future. That doesn't happen if you have to run off to attend other obligations as soon as your classes are over.

[BGuttman]

This is probably a good thing, Maximilien. Unfortunately there are so few jobs in the Music field that you have to weed out a lot of the "pretty good" candidates because they will be doomed to a life of failure as a professional musician. Many more can find work in teaching (which really eats into your playing time as an adult). There will be some with dedication and ability above most who can and should pursue music, but for the rest of us a better option is to find an amateur situation and keep music as an avocation. But we should attend concerts to continue to support those who are actually trying to make a living at it.

That's the reason I became an engineer and kept the music as a side line. More opportunities to succeed as an engineer than as a musician. Even more so now than when I was in college.

To TexasTBone, distance education is a difficult thing to do in highly cooperative fields. You can't play distance football (either kind) or play in a distance ensemble. While you could take distance courses in some background things like music theory and ear training (I am actually taking one now) much of the performance aspects have to be done in groups. There are even limits to what can be done by private lessons remotely. Sometimes you just have to be observed live.

[LeTromboniste]

This is probably a good thing, Maximilien.

Yes, I agree, just pointing out that it's not like most college programs.

To TexasTBone, distance education is a difficult thing to do in highly cooperative fields. You can't play distance football (either kind) or play in a distance ensemble. While you could take distance courses in some background things like music theory and ear training (I am actually taking one now) much of the performance aspects have to be done in groups. There are even limits to what can be done by private lessons remotely. Sometimes you just have to be observed live.

Even for ear training, physical presence highly increases the value and how much you learn (and how much the teacher can tell what the students need).

For private lessons, there are many things you can still teach online, but fully distance learning is not viable.

[timothy42b]

I am the senior training manager for a global company associated with the railroad industry. My job is to hire people from around the world, train them to be trainers in a niche industry, then sell and manage training courses to railroads on a global level. I am also responsible for forecasting the training needs of the industry and developing the training programs. Our next project is to move into Bosnia. I am currently in Germany now working with the team to construct the parameters for what we need in a recruit so we can train them to work for us. 0% of applicants will have any background in this particular field, so I have to look for things other than extensive experience.

A little off topic but this was interesting to me.

I've recently retired as a manager and hiring people was one of my frustrations. Our personnel department operated on a highly restrictive 30 year old paradigm that said you must match the qualifications of the individual very very precisely to the presumed skills on the job description or you are rejected as unqualified. That didn't meet my needs in an engineering field that was changing rapidly - I needed an adaptable motivated generalist, but personnel would only give me candidates who were deeply specialized (and who wouldn't consider what I could pay).

See also:
https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalist ... 4676&psc=1

[WGWTR180]

True, but at the same time everybody is saying that they are experts in the field and the advice is to follow tradition and do the same thing that has always been done. The "respect" road works both ways. I have given my input which is to change tactics if you want different results. If my advice goes against the establishment experts, then simply ignore what I have said and to what the experts tell you to do.

What I am hearing is that you cannot get a job in the music industry without a resume that shows you have significant experience in the music industry, but you can't get experience if you can't get a job. My point of view is that to get a job, you have to stand out in some what apart from experience. But that is my personal opinion and it's unsolicited and therefore worth next to nothing. Take it or leave it, it's all the same to me.

I am the senior training manager for a global company associated with the railroad industry. My job is to hire people from around the world, train them to be trainers in a niche industry, then sell and manage training courses to railroads on a global level. I am also responsible for forecasting the training needs of the industry and developing the training programs. Our next project is to move into Bosnia. I am currently in Germany now working with the team to construct the parameters for what we need in a recruit so we can train them to work for us. 0% of applicants will have any background in this particular field, so I have to look for things other than extensive experience.

Sounds like you have a very interesting job- I can see where your ideas for recruiting and resume sorting would be helpful. I've been fortunate to have worked in the music business for over 30 years. There are a number of different levels of proficiency in our industry. For any major symphony orchestra position that does not invite everyone to the audition then you will need some experience to be invited. But for many others it's just getting known by the musician pool in your area. If you want to to break in to the recording scene in L.A. GOOD LUCK. No resume will really get you into that small and very established group of musicians! That's just one example and there are so many more. But if I were a contractor who received a resume from a musician who was planning on really having time for an already crowded market in 6 years I'm definitely not paying any attention to it. Come to me when you're ready-there's no real "apprentice program" for musicians or hopeful musicians wanting to work down the road.
So in short it's all very complicated when it comes to our business. And these days age, gender, and race/ethnic background play a big factor in the hiring process, especially in New York City where most of my works exists. Thanks for sharing.

[TexasTBone]

But if I were a contractor who received a resume from a musician who was planning on really having time for an already crowded market in 6 years I'm definitely not paying any attention to it. Come to me when you're ready-there's no real "apprentice program" for musicians or hopeful musicians wanting to work down the road.

Six years is when I'm eligible to start collecting my pension. It has nothing to do with my skills as a trombonist.

[WGWTR180]

But if I were a contractor who received a resume from a musician who was planning on really having time for an already crowded market in 6 years I'm definitely not paying any attention to it. Come to me when you're ready-there's no real "apprentice program" for musicians or hopeful musicians wanting to work down the road.

Six years is when I'm eligible to start collecting my pension. It has nothing to do with my skills as a trombonist.

Look if you're an excellent trombonist and colleague you'll work if there is work. But many will just want to hire players who've "paid their dues" and worked their way in. Time will tell. Good luck.

[TexasTBone]

Wanted to stop in and tell everyone thanks for the advice and encouragement. I had an audition tonight for the sub roster of a regional orchestra. I landed a spot subbing on bass and tenor and will be playing their next concert.

[Posaunus]