Bought an old trombone, have some questions on red rot and and lacquer and stuff

[sgtpepper43]

Hello! I've recently acquired an about 60 year old trombone. It was very cheap, and from what I've read it was a student level trombone when it was made, so, I don't really want to throw money at it. So I have some questions!

There's a very small bit of red rot on the outer slide, and there's this big patch on the bell. The rest of the trombone is pretty scratched up, and I'm not sure what the state of the lacquer is. As you can see in some of the pictures, there are spots where the scratches just kinda merge into a giant matte looking blob. That's where I'm wondering like, has the lacquer fully come off at those points? There's some pitting as well, making me think the brass might be exposed.

So my main question is, how should I get this looking kinda nice? Like not relacquered and shiny, but, worn leather antique looking nice (if that's even possible)? If the lacquer is half gone, should I try to remove the rest and then treat it as raw brass? Or would trying anything just make things worse? Like I said, I'm willing to put in some work to make it look nice, but anything professional is probably going to cost more than I paid for the horn.

One last thing, half of the slide lock is gone. I've got a soldering iron I've used for electronics, is that something I could fix myself? If so, what's like, the actual name of that missing piece so I can order it? I can't find anything

Also I'm new to the forum and I know some forums don't let new users post pictures, so, if there are no pictures let me know and I'll put them up somewhere else

[BGuttman]

Welcome!

First, red rot takes decades to make a hole. I have a 100 year old tuba with red rot on the large crook. If something were to happen that it needed repairs, I'd be out of luck, but I can still play it as it is.

The piece of the slide lock that is missing is called the cam. I doubt you could use a soldering iron; especially one designed for electronic repairs; to do the repair. You will need a soldering torch. If the lock is that important to you, have it replaced by a tech.

Some French style cases leave a part of the bell near the slide tube ends, and condensate can drip on the bell creating a large spot in the lacquer such as you pictured.

Just out of curiosity, what make and model instrument is it?

[jorymil]

That actually looks pretty nice for a 60-year-old horn. I've seen many newer horns in worse shape. If there's red rot on the slide, it could cause roughness if it goes all the way through the tube, but if it's a nice horn, tubes can be replaced. I wouldn't worry about the red rot on the bell: it's not going to affect the sound in any way. If it really bothers you, a small amount of brass polish on that one area may help if the red rot is shallow. And you can probably get a tech to solder on a new slide lug for an hour's labor: that's no big deal. A soldering iron won't have enough heat capacity to do the job: the slide will just suck the heat out.

To second Bruce, what kind of horn is this? That octagonal slide lock and bell nut are very distinctive.

[DougHulme]

Not commenting specifically on your horn but it should be recognised that just because brass goes pink does not mean it has red rot. All sheet brass goes pink when you heat it and cool it, brass when left un polished will go pink and a quick polish will restore it. I have seen many cases where a horn has been declared to have red rot because it looks pink but in fact it is just surface oxidation. Note I am not expressing an opinion on this horn and also Bruce is right it will take many more years before it becomes a real problem. I have red rot in the slide bow of my Yamaha YBL321 I doubt I will live long enough for it to become a problem for me. If this is a student horn and the remaining lacquer is thick try giving it a polish with a gentle brass polish the lacquer will survive and the bare patches will shine and be less intrusive for a while. You cannot keep doing this though unless you want to remove all the lacquer, metal polish and lacquer are not recomended but in this case....

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Those hexagonal parts look like the horn might be an older Buescher. Is that what it is?

Concerning the slide lock lug, I do recommend that you take it to a tech. Most techs keep a few different heights of lugs in stock. You want the proper lug so that the lock nut catches on it without being so low that it scrapes against the trim ring on the outer slide. It is normally a five-minute repair but worth paying the 15-minute minimum that many shops charge. If you want the slide lock to work properly, get it done correctly.

[OneTon]

Tubes can be replaced. It is easier to find a willing technician if the replacement tubes are available off the shelf. Some technicians are willing to change tubing bore sizes slightly or “hot rod” dual bore Olds slides, for instance. Some players will complain that the horn doesn’t blow the same even with the same sized tubes. Some horns horns may play better. Is it worth it on a cheap horn? Meh.

I have a 0.470 bore Holton that is not easily otherwise identified. It has soldered on stockings. It plays well enough for a gig. I am not going to try to replace the tubes on it. It is safe to say it has 0% lacquer left. I keep it clean with Dawn dish soap. And I never do anything else to it.

Once brass has an oxide coating on it, it does not keep corroding unless the zinc has leached out and red rot sets in. Then the clock is ticking. How long will it last? How old is it now?

It is possible to have the lacquer removed and buff the worst of the rough surfaces down on the bell and to the exterior slide. The resulting oxide finish is uniform and not unsightly. If you want a picture of the result, pm me. Both my Holton trombone and Olds Ambassador cornet fit your description. If the outer slide has red rot and feels “crunchy” it may respond to smoothing as well. It is not a permanent repair for red rot.

Lacquer removal, buffing, replacing the cam lock, and a slide set up are relatively inexpensive. I am not seeing anything in your pictures that absolutely indicates red rot. Even if it is red rot, another one without as many issues may come along at a cheap price. I have yet to see another Holton like mine. There probably is one somewhere.

[sgtpepper43]

Thank you all for the replies! It's a Buescher Aristocrat, so good call on the maker! The serial number puts it at about 1963. From other posts I've read it's right around when Selmer bought them, maybe early enough that it's still more "Buescher" than "Selmer". It's also a bit past when they started making the Aristocrat a student model, from what I've read.

Yeah the bell is definitely near the open end of the slide in the case, so that totally makes sense! I might give the gentle brass polish a try. What I'm mostly trying to do is just gently buff as much of the corrosion and scratches I can and get it protected from any further damage, as much as I can anyway. The slide is still nice and smooth, so, either it's not red rot or it just hasn't gotten too deep.

I just want to make sure when I bust it out it gives off "oh cool an antique trombone" vibes rather than "oh wow did you get that from a dumpster" vibes If I could make it sound amazing it wouldn't matter either way, but I haven't played in a longgg while.

[BGuttman]

You can clean all the corrosion with a mild brass polish like Wright's Liquid. There is something called "Touch-Up Lacquer" which is a room temperature system that you spray on and let dry. It's not as good as a baked lacquer, but it will hold up nicely. If you aren't good with Rattle Can spray painting you could try using an automotive wax or preservative (I like Turtle Wax Hard Shell) which will hold up for a few months.

Right now, if you are really rusty, the "dumpster sound" will be more you than the trombone. The Buescher should be reasonably good for street marching and Dixieland, although I'd hesitate to use it in a Community Orchestra. It's a lot better than some of the inexpensive Chinese instruments out now.

[sgtpepper43]

Funny you mention that, I was originally going to get one of those cheap Chinese ones off Amazon, since I found a large bore model with an F trigger, but it ended up that it wouldn't get here in time to start practicing. I might regret not having the trigger in a couple of spots, but getting more time to practice and having a cool old trombone sounds worth it.

[dpursel73]

Glad I came across this thread. I thought my 1960 Olds Special (plays well) may be experiencing some red rot, but more than likely some surface oxidation. Time to give some brass polish a try!

[tbonesullivan]

Glad I came across this thread. I thought my 1960 Olds Special (plays well) may be experiencing some red rot, but more than likely some surface oxidation. Time to give some brass polish a try!

If it's on the bell, this is usually true. Red rot usually forms in areas where there is a lot of moisture, like in a slide crook, or in a trumpet lead pipe. I've never seen true red rot on a bell.