Alto valve trombone

[Voltrane]

Hello,
I am a trumpet player and an occasional tenor valve trombone doubler
Recently, I fell in love with the piston alto trombone after listening to this (from minute 3).

Do you know who makes this kind of instrument? I have not found anything with the net.
Thank you.

[harrisonreed]

I didn't know Magnus Carlsen played in this group. He is visible on second trombone around 3:00 as well. Or that he played the trombone for that matter. A man of no small talent.

[BGuttman]

Bach made an Eb "bass" trumpet. It comes with a trumpet sized mouthpiece on a large (for a trumpet) shank. I actually tried one about 30 years ago, but that's not my "bag".

I do own a Couesnon "bass flugelhorn" in Eb. I managed to fit a Conn 3 trombone mouthpiece by turning down the shank. It has an odd quirk: the 3rd valve is two whole steps instead of a step and a half. It's shaped like a Flugelhorn rather than a trumpet or cornet.

Conn made an Eb alto valve trombone about 100 years ago. I know it's not current. There are a few floating around.

None of the above instruments have 4 valves, though. Maybe it's a special from Schlagerl?

I'd bet that Wessex Tubas has something in this range.

[Finetales]

The alto valve trombone in that video (which I have listened to countless times) is a custom Thein if I remember correctly. I'm sure Thein would make you another one if you had enough money.

Alto valve trombones used to be common in military bands and the like - I think it was Dvorak that played one in such a group. But they disappeared when the valve trombone in general fell out of favor.

To my knowledge, the only alto valve trombone that is currently made in a factory is from Schiller of all places. They actually make models in both Eb and F. I think it goes without saying that these are probably not very good instruments, but they are out there. Nobody else (Wessex etc.) makes one as far as I know.

Funnily enough, a cheap way to get an alto valve trombone that is probably a much better instrument than the Schillers is to buy a Getzen 383 frumpet for dirt cheap and put a trombone leadpipe on it. Swap the bell for a trombone bell as well if you want, but just the leadpipe alone will make it a functional alto valve trombone.

[heinzgries]

https://www.amazon.de/Stagg-Alt-Posaune ... B0039O8ZKQ

https://musix-instruments.com/Levante-T ... Alto-Valve

https://www.jimlaabsmusicstore.com/stor ... -trombone/

[Finetales]

They all look like pretty much the same model, presumably a Jin Bao at the source.

[t00t1nmyh0rn]

I have the Schiller alto valve trombone sold by Jim Laabs. I purchased it online before play testing it and almost ended up regretting it. However, I was able to overcome the issues I encountered and now enjoy playing it very much. Below are some aspects of my experience that might help you avoid a few headaches should you proceed to purchase your own:

1) I purchased the Schiller American Heritage Piston Valve F Trombone and found that it was horribly FLAT across the board even with both tuning slides pushed in. I was very dismayed because of this and let the horn sit idle for several months as I contemplated cutting off some of the tubing that the front tuning slide pushes into.

After giving it further thought, I wished I had purchased the Eb model instead for a number of different reasons. Fortunately, that turns out to be a simple adjustment. Just pull the tuning slides out enough until it's an Eb instrument. After doing so, the intonation was pretty good across the board. Problem solved!

2) The mouthpiece included was an unbranded 12C. My upper range was very hampered and I was hitting a brick wall any higher than G4. I researched a bit online and most suggestions indicated that a smaller cup diameter and shallow depth are preferred for alto trombone. The reasoning seemed solid as alto trombone is higher pitched than tenor trombone. I switched to a Bach 15E and eventually Megatone 15E and there was a slight improvement. However, I was still having issues with upper range. Note: I also played on a slide alto trombone with the same mouthpieces and encountered the same difficulty with the upper range. I was astonished that Michael Lake — an outstanding alto trombone player — uses a 6.5AL. See What mouthpiece should I use for an alto trombone?

If you compare the bore and bell diameter specifications to Schiller's Alto Horn – Edinburgh Model, you'll find that the bore diameter (.488") is the same and the bell is just under one-half inch smaller in diameter (7.12" vs. 7.60"). You could argue that a valve alto trombone is essentially a forward projecting alto horn. I came to the conclusion that an alto horn mouthpiece might be more appropriate for this instrument than a trombone mouthpiece.

This past week I played with a Parduba 3 Star *** double cup trombone mouthpiece and, wow, what a difference! My upper range opened up tremendously and the lower register still sounds great. To my knowledge, the 3 Star is the smallest trombone mouthpiece at 21.13mm diameter and 16.41mm depth; just a bit larger than typical alto horn mouthpieces. This is now my primary mouthpiece for this trombone.

3) As to be expected, the 3rd valve slide needs to be extended when playing E3 (1+2+3) and F3 (1+3). I would love to have the 4-valve alto bone featured in the video to do away with this.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you end up purchasing one and I can recommend some accessories and mutes that fit.

Ben

[pbone3b]

Have you checked out Scott Reeves?
https://www.creativejazz.com/

[Finetales]

You could argue that a valve alto trombone is essentially a forward projecting alto horn.

They have the same tubing length and other dimensional similarities but they are far from the same instrument. Alto valve trombone is cylindrical, while alto horn is conical.

[t00t1nmyh0rn]

They have the same tubing length and other dimensional similarities but they are far from the same instrument. Alto valve trombone is cylindrical, while alto horn is conical.

I stand corrected. I had mistakenly concluded that the alto horn tubing was tapered proportionally to that of the larger cylindrical baritone. After reading your post, I loaded up some side-by-side YouTube videos of alto trombone and alto horn and observed that difference in tone similar to that of trumpet vs. cornet or fluegelhorn.

Thanks!

[Chatname]

Carl Nielsen aged 14 I believe with a valved alto trombone:

[Chatname]

Don’t know why the picture came up twice, but it’s a great picture so maybe ok…

[t00t1nmyh0rn]

Have you checked out Scott Reeves?
https://www.creativejazz.com/

"You Are What You Think" with the didgeridoo and alto fluegelhorn was interesting. I've heard the didgeridoo play before, but never heard an alto fluegelhorn until checking out his music. AAaaand now I have another obscure instrument on my wishlist.

I just ordered the Tribute CD which has him playing the valve alto trombone and alto fluegelhorn according to the description.

[Bart]

Sorry to resurrect an old topic, but I just came across it after a Google search.

I happen to own the alto trombone valve section from the video of the German Brass. The seller told me that the previous owner told him it was custom made by Yamaha for Mr Crespo. Though he was never able to verify that.

It is an early Yamaha 871 alto with both a slide and a four valve section (in a custom Yamaha case that carries both and the bell). The bell in the video is not the Yamaha bell though. The tenon on the valve section was replaced to fit the bell in the video. Before he sold the Yamaha set, the original tenon was soldered back on to make the set functional.

Next to anecdotal "evidence", I have never seen a similar valve section from Yamaha. And there are obvious traces from the resoldering of the tenon, which is consistent with Mr Crespo using a different bell. Glad to have found this video to compare! And especially to hear it being played by Mr Crespo (next to amazing playing all around!).

[Voltrane]

Thanks!

[Finetales]

Great info!

[dukesboneman]

I have an Elkhart Eb/F Alto Flugel-horn. I had Doug Elliott make me a 98 rim A cup with a very short shank that fits a Trumpet . Works great and plays perfectly in tune

[SamBTbrn]

https://www.kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/ ... 95-74-1724

If anyone wants one made by Monke,

[brassmedic]

I just noticed someone selling a K&H Eb valve alto on Facebook in the Trombonists Corner Group.