Conn 88HNV

[hornbuilder]

The type of brazing that is done to join the seam on the stem is a very high heat process. It isn't "soldering" as such. Similar process, just different material and heat requirement.

[Matt K]

I must be the odd duck out, I actually like the open-but-barely wrap on this one I'm not a fan of the way open wraps look usually, especially on Conns and Yamaha. Just too narrow for me. Which is ironic because I'm toying with putting on on my Shires or parting out my Shires stuff.

At any rate, I wonder if Steve wrote that up and they changed the specs on him and he only updated some of the wording on the ad. I also wonder if the reason for the soldered bell bead is that these horns may be used on other CS products as their screw bell model. IIRC, the Ralph Sauer bell on the Shires is similar to a 1RVET7 or somthing rather than a 2RVET7 which I always assumed was to counter the effect of the heavier screw bell components. Pure speculation on my part.

[ChadA]

Has anyone seen an 8hnv version? That's where I'd be interested. The 88hnv looks good, but I've already got all the 547 I need.

I played one at ITF. It wasn't bad, but my Greenhoe 88H is, for me, a much better instrument. It's a decent horn, interesting looking, but wasn't life-changing.

[tbonesullivan]

I don't think you can braze yellow brass using red brass solder, as the melting temperature increases with the copper content. Logically, if you tried to braze yellow brass using red brass solder, you'd burn through the bell before your solder has even melted.

It is possible to have a very discreet seam, quasi invisible, by using brass solder that is as close as possible in composition to the piece you're soldering, but the closer you get, the smaller the margin between the melting points is, and the trickier it is to solder without destroying the piece.

I had asked Kanstul a question back in 2014 regarding why I couldn't see the seam on my 1570CR bell, but could on my 1588CR bell:

David,

Both of these bells are brazed together.....

The 1570 has a yellow brass bell and the brazing material for this is an exact match so you cannot see the seam.

The 1588 has a bronze bell and the brazing material for this is not an exact match so that is why you can see the seam.

As for the engraving.....we did change our engraving on our horns a few years ago and that is why there is a difference.

Carrie
KMI

Also, the brazed seams on my Bach 42 and my King 3b definitely show a brazing material that is more "red" than the yellow brass of the bell. The 3B also has a brazed seam between the spout and flare as well.

[TromboneSam]

My army band just ordered one of these. I’ll let you guys know if it plays like shit or not

[Bach42t]

My army band just ordered one of these. I’ll let you guys know if it plays like shit or not

Great, you can play it at my retirement ceremony (in less than 5 years) if you are up to it. I think I might take up salsa trombone after my Army career is done.

[drbucher]

Lisa Liz has posted a very positive video review of it.

[Boneuphtoner]

I got to play one of these recently. Aside from the slide that had so-so action out of the box, I thought it played very well and had a beautiful tone quality. I haven't played an 88H in years, but it seemed to have a darker, thicker tone quality as compared to what I remembered from years ago. It would be interesting to compare this against a stock 88H.

[sstelmack]

I just played one of these this morning. I really liked it. The upper range was really easy for me on this horn. The only thing I was a bit iffy on it was the slide is really close to the bell. I kept hitting my fingers on the way up the slide. That is something I think I would just get used to though. If I needed a new horn, I probably would get one of these.

[harrisonreed]

My army band just ordered one of these. I’ll let you guys know if it plays like shit or not

So... Does it?

[TromboneSam]

My army band just ordered one of these. I’ll let you guys know if it plays like shit or not

So... Does it?

It actually showed up last week but supposedly the army bureaucrats have decided that while it has arrived at the warehouse, our band is not allowed to touch it yet. Hopefully they let us have it by the end of the week

[TromboneSam]

It’s here!

Came in yesterday. How come nobody mentioned how nice the case is?? Compact quilted leather??? Also the bell engraving is super pretty.



Some first impressions:

The slide was absolute dogshit out of the box. Would not move smoothly, sounded scratchy, kept sticking. Seems almost like the factory did not buff the inside of the outers. I wiped off the inners, applied some of the conn slide cream that the horn came with and spritzed with water and it’s manageable. Given the time to work some yamasnot or slideomix into the slide I’m sure it’ll be like lightning. Slide lock is very stiff but doesn’t feel like it has tight tolerances. Almost feels scratchy to move. A very very small amount of lanolin would probably fix it right up. There are also some lacquer imperfections on the slide lock.

I’m not up to date with leadpipes but this does not have the remington shank. Did they stop putting them in all modern 88h’s? Mouthpiece sits even higher that it does on my army Bach 42 and Edwards 396-AR. Doesn’t seem too high though.

Intonation is pretty nice. B flat on the 2nd line is a tad sharp; top of the staff and the one above it are also right in tune.

High D slots, centers, and projects VERY nicely. Even the F above that feels nice and full.

Middle register is all nice, easy, and centered. The bell is pretty thin, so it resonates something wonderful.

My low register sucks but this horn helped a little. The trigger is pretty good and air through the wrap felt barely any different than air not through the wrap. Does that mean it’s an open blow? Tight blow? Even blow? Idk

The valve when dry was barely noisy at all but still didn’t really quiet down with Bach rotor oil. Again, almost feels scratchy to use. Kinda like it needs to be broken in.

There is quite a bit on tension of the F tuning slide. When I pull it out the pressure forces it out of alignment. Not sure if this is deliberate, but I assume not. Main tuning slide is perfectly aligned.

The horn sounds really nice, but I think the factory did not take much care to make the horn performance ready from the assembly line. It really feels like the whole horn has to be broken in, in a way. Our band’s new Edwards’ valve and slide were glass-like out of the box, as was our Bach 42B when it was new 5 years ago.

Hopefully this shed some light. If it were my personal horn I might contact the factory and see if I could send it back for evaluation/tweaking. The price tag is high enough that if I bought a new horn I would expect pretty-near perfection. Since it’s an army horn we will make do and avoid someone in the bureaucratic chain making a mistake and taking the horn away from us for good.

Hope this helped!

8/10 for the 88HNV

[spencercarran]

I’m not up to date with leadpipes but this does not have the remington shank. Did they stop putting them in all modern 88h’s?

Ever since the GenII redesign in the mid-90s, 88H trombones have had standard Morse shank tapers. They do (did?) sell a slide with 3 removable leadpipes, one of which was Remington.

It's a shame the assembly was a bit imprecise.

[Posaunus]

Sorry to learn about the scratchy slide. Two weeks ago, I purchased a "new" Conn SL2547 slide from Chuck Levin's Washington Music Center. (Thanks Aaron.) It was apparently found in a salesman's sample case in the back room; its age is uncertain - probably only a few years old. It had never been played – still wrapped in plastic. It came with 3 leadpipes.

The quality of the slide is amazing. Smoother than smooth - a true 10/10; no break-in (and very little slide lube) required. It works great with my vintage Conn 88H! I don't know when this slide was manufactured, but ... if everything that Conn-Selmer makes were this good, they would have no critics left!

[harrisonreed]

Could it be an Eastlake slide? They made the best slides I have ever played,both on the 88H and the alto.

[ZacharyThornton]

All Conn and King are made in Elkhart now. They moved a while ago.

[spencercarran]

All Conn and King are made in Elkhart now. They moved a while ago.

Is Eastlake plant closed entirely? I thought they were still doing student tubas there.

[hornbuilder]

French horns are still being made in Eastlake.

[harrisonreed]

All Conn and King are made in Elkhart now. They moved a while ago.

Yeah, but he said "it was in wrap, therefore new", which could just be "new old stock"

[Posaunus]

All Conn and King are made in Elkhart now. They moved a while ago.

Yeah, but he said "it was in wrap, therefore new", which could just be "new old stock"

Perhaps I was not clear. My slide from Chuck Levins' was indeed (as far as I could tell) unused/unplayed, and to that extent "new." But it was also indicated to be "old stock" from a salesman's demo case in storage for several years. I don't know how to determine its manufacturing location or date, but the slide is at least several years old. Perhaps 10 or more - who knows? When did Conn introduce the dual-bore SL2547 slides? In any case, my only point was that (at that point) Conn was capable of fabricating a near-perfect slide. Perhaps even better than when I purchased my treasured Conn 88H in 1972. We should all be playing such wonderful slides!

Shame on Conn for sending out a second-rate product as TromboneSam's 88HNV seems to be. The snazzy case doesn't make up for that.

[harrisonreed]

Yeah, but he said "it was in wrap, therefore new", which could just be "new old stock"

Perhaps I was not clear. My slide from Chuck Levins' was indeed (as far as I could tell) unused/unplayed, and to that extent "new." But it was also indicated to be "old stock" from a salesman's demo case in storage for several years. I don't know how to determine its manufacturing location or date, but the slide is at least several years old. Perhaps 10 or more - who knows? When did Conn introduce the dual-bore SL2547 slides? In any case, my only point was that (at that point) Conn was capable of fabricating a near-perfect slide. Perhaps even better than when I purchased my treasured Conn 88H in 1972. We should all be playing such wonderful slides!

Shame on Conn for sending out a second-rate product as TromboneSam's 88HNV seems to be. The snazzy case doesn't make up for that.

Yeah, sounds like Eastlake to me. The gen IIs were from there. That's the 2547, interchangeable leadpipes, good action, deal-e-o era. They don't make slides like that anymore.

[MrHCinDE]

Thanks TromboneSam for the detailed review.

Sounds like a case of a fundamentally good design, unfortunately let down by some final touches.

Do you happen to have played a GenII 88H as a point of comparison?

For anyone interested, I don't know if it's a pricing error, but at Thomann, the 88HNV is the same price as the standard 88H:
https://www.thomann.de/de/cgconn_88hnv_ ... ombone.htm
At other places they seem to be at least a few hundred more

[asmith]

Perhaps I was not clear. My slide from Chuck Levins' was indeed (as far as I could tell) unused/unplayed, and to that extent "new." But it was also indicated to be "old stock" from a salesman's demo case in storage for several years. I don't know how to determine its manufacturing location or date, but the slide is at least several years old. Perhaps 10 or more - who knows? When did Conn introduce the dual-bore SL2547 slides? In any case, my only point was that (at that point) Conn was capable of fabricating a near-perfect slide. Perhaps even better than when I purchased my treasured Conn 88H in 1972. We should all be playing such wonderful slides!

Shame on Conn for sending out a second-rate product as TromboneSam's 88HNV seems to be. The snazzy case doesn't make up for that.

Yeah, sounds like Eastlake to me. The gen IIs were from there. That's the 2547, interchangeable leadpipes, good action, deal-e-o era. They don't make slides like that anymore.

You're welcome for the slide!

They were definitely Eastlake era slides and all of them are really quite nice. They did start producing that style slide in Elkhart in later years in smaller numbers as they were still available until this year. But the ones I have in store have been here for 13ish years and forgotten about.

I assume with this "new generation" of component horns like the A47X there will be more offering that are similar to the SL4747 and so on.

[ZacharyThornton]

The new professional line trombones come from the same place: Elkhart. The student brass still comes from Eastlake I assume as well as the background brass (tubas, French Horns).

[Monkhouse]

Yeah, sounds like Eastlake to me. The gen IIs were from there. That's the 2547, interchangeable leadpipes, good action, deal-e-o era. They don't make slides like that anymore.

You're welcome for the slide!

They were definitely Eastlake era slides and all of them are really quite nice. They did start producing that style slide in Elkhart in later years in smaller numbers as they were still available until this year. But the ones I have in store have been here for 13ish years and forgotten about.

I assume with this "new generation" of component horns like the A47X there will be more offering that are similar to the SL4747 and so on.

Do you still have a 2547 available?

[asmith]

You're welcome for the slide!

They were definitely Eastlake era slides and all of them are really quite nice. They did start producing that style slide in Elkhart in later years in smaller numbers as they were still available until this year. But the ones I have in store have been here for 13ish years and forgotten about.

I assume with this "new generation" of component horns like the A47X there will be more offering that are similar to the SL4747 and so on.

Do you still have a 2547 available?

Unfortunately not, those were clearance items. You can still order a new one, but they are about $1200 now.

Everything I still have available is listed here: https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php? ... 65#p172865

[Bomtrone]

I have the HNV, and the case is great! I love the backpack straps.