Shires Marshall Gilkes

[Rusty]

https://www.dillonmusic.com/s-e-shires- ... -trombone/

Would love to try one! A few differences to the Michael Davis horns, notably the screw bell, .500 bore, 1.0 tuning slide, brass outers on the slide and different bracing. The bell seems similar size to the MD+ but I’m sure there’s a few more differences in there.

[Tbarh]

"Custom Gilkes bracing"??

[Peacemate]

"Custom Gilkes bracing"??

I'm guessing it refers to the slide braces being 2 pieces instead of three. I'm just basing this of the picture though, so I might be wrong.

[FEWeathers]

Keith Hilson has a review video up now,

[paulyg]

I knew they were planning a Q Contra, weird that they chose such a small bore and pitched it in Bb.

[Fidbone]

Here's the man himself playing his own model...........

Sounds fantastic

[Nobbi]

Wow ... thanks for sharing, Fidbone ... way to go!!!

[Nobbi]

Well, the man himself playing his own model is jawdropping ....

So I called our Shires dealer here in Germany and asked for that trombone to play test. I finally got it on Friday and spend the last 4 days playing it up and down my repertoire ... always in comparison with my Lawler 3.

To make it short: I will NOT send it back.

The Shires TB-MG is extremely precise in response in all registers. It is work, to not hit the correct keys.
The sound is beautiful and round but it penetrates if necessary. These are the reasons why it is a keeper for me!
It is made solid, flawless, oldfashioned, boring! The engraving is the most beautiful part on that horn. If you look at the Lawler and the TB-MG at the same time, optically the TB-MG is a Mercedes C class ... the Lawler is a Mercedes SLS.

The second point I was interested in, was the Marcus Bonna case for detachable horns (I want one for the Lawler for a few months, now but was hold back by the amount of money).
This Shires case is on the inside specially designed for the TB-MG, the Lawler doesn't fit at all. A whole lot of space to put in MP's, water sprayer, slide lube, leadpipes .... but no space for a mute at all. No chance with my Okura. The 7.75 flare fit's really tight .... no chance for larger flares.

What a wonderful horn, I am really happy with it. My lesson out of this whole situation:
I will never play test other horns anymore ... the consequences are tooooo costy!!!

[Nobbi]

And the Marcus Bonna case ...

[Slidehamilton]

Can anyone comment on the weight of the slide? Especially since it has nickel oversleeves. Many brass slides with the oversleeves can be quite heavy. Not a fan of heavy slides!

[Nobbi]

The complete slide, inclusive leadpipe, is exactly 560g.

[Slidehamilton]

Ok, thanks!

[Andre1966tr]

The weight of the outer slide is of importance...
Regards

[Nobbi]

The outer slide ... it only makes sense ... the moving part.
Sorry guys, my mistake.

TBMG outer slide: 240g
For comparison ... Lawler 3 outer slide: 178g

[Arvopart17]

Got my MG Shires horn in the mail today!! I can’t believe how great this horn feels, it just dances up and down the registers. My DE LT99/E/E4 seems to be a perfect fit for it as well.

My only complaint is actually the Bonna case - it damaged the horn! I’m pretty sure it’s not a shipping issue, I think the case itself dented the bell when it was closed up. Pictures below, the dent appears to be caused by the sharp ledge close to where the cut bell ring goes.

It seems like when the case was zipped shut at the factory the bell was pressed down on that sharp ledge and it punched it in.

I’ve got a note out to the company I bought it from to see what we can do. Disappointed at opening up a damaged new instrument, but these things happen. Just be careful with the case! Hope no one else experiences this.

Luckily it doesn’t affect the sound and this thing rocks!

[Fidbone]

What an absolute pain, send it back and get them to send you another!
That solder joint looks bad too, uneven and gappy

[Elow]

What an absolute pain, send it back and get them to send you another!
That solder joint looks bad too, uneven and gappy

The wait time on these is long. The solder joint looks fine? What’s uneven and gappy about it?

[pedrombon]

That solder joint looks bad too, uneven and gappy

That solder is a mess!

[Elow]

Am i not seeing something?

[Fidbone]

What an absolute pain, send it back and get them to send you another!
That solder joint looks bad too, uneven and gappy

The wait time on these is long. The solder joint looks fine? What’s uneven and gappy about it?

Look closely, it's a bad job. It should be barely noticeable and flush!
I worked at Rath's for a year, we would never have gotten away with that

[Arvopart17]

Here’s a close up. I didn’t really notice until you pointed it out, I was so focused on the dent.

I’ve had awesome experiences with Shires in the past, I’m sure we can get this fixed.

The wait does stink though.

[Elow]

Just checked on my monitor and yeah, not the best. My little iphone 6 didn’t show it that well

[Fidbone]

Tell em you'll keep it until they send you another one
You could demo it with a few folk and drum up some business for them.
That one ultimately needs stripping and repairing anyway!

[Arvopart17]

Shires and Dillons are both taking great care of me - great companies to work with!

[WGWTR180]

Am i not seeing something?

You should be seeing it now.

[Nobbi]

Just just had Shires build a .500 Nickel-Silver Leadpipe with Venturi 3 for my MG Shires ... got it 3 days ago.
What an addition, the sound is even better ... clear, rich, warm, I am so thrilled.

The only negative point was I really had to use quite some force and rotation to first time get it in, which I thought was odd. I told them I wanted to use it on that specific instrument.
Some time with 1200 grain sandpaper, fine polish and patience later, it moves smooth in and out.
I can only highly recommend that Leadpipe.

[Bleek]

Just just had Shires build a .500 Nickel-Silver Leadpipe with Venturi 3 for my MG Shires ... got it 3 days ago.
What an addition, the sound is even better ... clear, rich, warm, I am so thrilled.

Hey Nobbi. How's the new leadpipe going after a while of using?

The only downside I have with the Gilkes trombone and Gilkes mouthpiece combo, which I have wholesale gone to, is that occasionally it doesn't have the sizzle for more lead/commercial applications. Pretty certain it's a mouthpiece thing but have been curious about the idea of putting in another leadpipe for those sort of gigs. Otherwise have been loving the horn.

[Macbone1]

I had a new Bach 42B in 1975, and the big clunky snap on the plastic strap that held the slide compartment door closed pushed into the side of the bell flare every time the case was closed up, making a dent. I cut the strap off and the male side of the snap STILL dented the bell! I finally took a saber saw and jigged out a u-shaped hole in the slide door to remove the rest of the snap! (I did not own a hole saw) It still had one working strap, toward the rear of the case, which was enough. Never looked back.

[hyperbolica]

Out of curiosity, has anyone put an MD+ slide on the MG? I can sometimes adapt to a 500 bore, but 508/9 is easier. How much does it alter the character?

[StevenHolloway]

Marshall Gilkes sounded better on Edwards as did Alessi.

[Elow]

Marshall Gilkes sounded better on Edwards as did Alessi.

Jim Markey sounds better on a pbone than his edwards.


We can all type stupid sentences

[harrisonreed]

I dunno, as much as I have Edwards brand loyalty, and as much as I don't like the fact that Shires is buying artists, I heard Alessi live in Tokyo and he sounded as good as I've ever heard him.

[Nobbi]

Just just had Shires build a .500 Nickel-Silver Leadpipe with Venturi 3 for my MG Shires ... got it 3 days ago.
What an addition, the sound is even better ... clear, rich, warm, I am so thrilled.

Hey Nobbi. How's the new leadpipe going after a while of using?

The only downside I have with the Gilkes trombone and Gilkes mouthpiece combo, which I have wholesale gone to, is that occasionally it doesn't have the sizzle for more lead/commercial applications. Pretty certain it's a mouthpiece thing but have been curious about the idea of putting in another leadpipe for those sort of gigs. Otherwise have been loving the horn.

Hi Bleek,

I love the new leadpipe, it was the right decision.
The Shires mouthpiece I put on eBay these days ... doesn't fit me at all.
Currently I am super satisfied with the Greg Black New York 5m .... on both Lawler 3 and Shires MG. For me an ideal combo.

Nobbi

[Model34]

Just just had Shires build a .500 Nickel-Silver Leadpipe with Venturi 3 for my MG Shires ... got it 3 days ago.
What an addition, the sound is even better ... clear, rich, warm, I am so

Could expound on this ns leadpipe a little more? Especially how it differs from the one that comes with the horn. What can you do you couldn’t do before. And how much was it? Thanks.

[Nobbi]

Just just had Shires build a .500 Nickel-Silver Leadpipe with Venturi 3 for my MG Shires ... got it 3 days ago.
What an addition, the sound is even better ... clear, rich, warm, I am so

Could expound on this ns leadpipe a little more? Especially how it differs from the one that comes with the horn. What can you do you couldn’t do before. And how much was it? Thanks.

Hi Model34,

I purchased through Houghton Horns, they ordered at Shires directly. It was $135,- plus shipping to Germany and a little customs on top.
The sound is brighter and more crisp. The MG Shires itself is already a powerful solo instrument, you will be heard, you don't need to be in the first row! The Nickel-Silver leadpipe even enhances it ... so you need to be careful.
But that is not my point ... just something to remember when you participate in a group ... my point is the variation of the sounds. That's what I love. I can play one day a darker and full sound and the other day a crisp cutting sound that feels my way of expressing the sheet of notes in front of me. All that with one instrument.

I wish they would offer different flares for the Shires MG as well as Roy Lawler does. The Lawlers are infinitely tunable ... flares (material and size), lead pipes, even mouthpieces if you like. Incredible possibilities!

Nobbi

[HermanGerman]

Hello Nobbi,

I would like to know more about your musical background. I belive that this very important to judge your statements. You talked abou a KIng 2B, then a King 5B, then a Lawler, now a Shires in a short time...I am a liitle confused
I assume you are a pro player in different settings...
How long do you play the trombone?
What kind of music do you play?
First trombone in a Big Band or Jazz combo?
Can you give us a short demo of you playing this instrument!
Regards,
Herm

[Model34]

!

Hi Nobbi,

Ordered the ns leadpipe through Husonics in Tampa yesterday. They said it would take a couple of weeks.

Thank you for your input. That’s just what I wanted to hear!

Joe
Former 1st trombone Wiesbaden-Auringen Städt Kappella 1983-1986.

UPDATE: The ns leadpipe is arriving Monday 24 Oct‘22 in the post! WooHoo!

UPDATE 2: it arrived yesterday the 22nd!
THE GOOD: Shires ships promptly. I’m in central, TX. I ordered it Thur. morning from Husonics, in St. Petersburg, FL because they are open in the morning, and answer the phone. It was in my mailbox at 1:00p Sat. It was scheduled to be delivered Mon the 24th! Way to go USPS!!! Two day delivery. 2nd day delivery for 12.00 $ not bad.

THE BAD: Just like Nobbi, the dang thing is not slipping into place as it should! STEPS: 1. Tried to slip it in: no go. 2. Yamasnot on tube of leadpipe, and in receiver tube generously: no go. 3. Wiped that off leadpipe, replace with valve oil: No go. 4. Lubed original leadpipe with oil, inserted to threads, started threading, stopped filled gap with valve oil and finished screwing in. Removed, attempted to insert ns leadpipe, no go. Put original back in and proceeded to play a few notes: Voila: I successfully mixed valve oil and Yamasnot! Gooey slide action: almost as good as pure maple syrup! Have to wash slide, but I’m putting it on the a horn stand first so I can continue practicing with my other horn. Following Mark twain‘s advice: “ Never put off until tomorrow that which can just as well be done the day after tomorrow! “ All this fun after I gave Husonics explicit directions twice to tell Shires to make sure the blasted leadpipe would slip into the horn without a hassle!

I see a repair shop in my future, just so I can change a blankety-blank leadpipe!

Warning, this is my second piece of kit from Shires in a week that has to be installed by a tech. The 1st was my neckpipe for my Q30A

[Nobbi]

Hello Nobbi,

I would like to know more about your musical background. I belive that this very important to judge your statements. You talked abou a KIng 2B, then a King 5B, then a Lawler, now a Shires in a short time...I am a liitle confused
I assume you are a pro player in different settings...
How long do you play the trombone?
What kind of music do you play?
First trombone in a Big Band or Jazz combo?
Can you give us a short demo of you playing this instrument!
Regards,
Herm

Hello Herm,

let me quote Eleanor Roosewelt:

Small minds discuss (judge) people.
Average minds discuss events.
Great minds discuss ideas.

Nevertheless not meaning to be impolite ... a few answers for "you" (stylistic device of generalization):
I am an amateur player of trumpet/Flugelhorn since 1978 and was 22 years playing in a Big Band.
Two corona lockdowns in my Institute starting in the beginning of 2020 gave me time to start something I wanted to do for a long time: leaning the bass clef and playing trombone plus getting myself into Jazz.
So I tested trombones (2b, 3b, 4b, 5b, R1, Courtois, Couesnon, Thein, Schmelzer ....) and finally found 3 trombones that fit my hearing and were tunable with exchangable gear to end up with sounds that fit most accurate my ear and purposes. The 5b, the Model 3 and the MG. Since then I never touched my Flugelhorns anymore.

My idea of making music: I just follow my ear, play unintendedly with closed eyes (which drives my trombone teacher nuts) and feel the music. To me, this sounds like something most, maybe all of the musicians do (more or less excentric).
For the moment, I just train my skills on the trombone until one day I feel being ready to take my part in a Big Band or Jazz combo again.

Nobbi

[Model34]

Just just had Shires build a .500 Nickel-Silver Leadpipe with Venturi 3 for my MG Shires ... got it 3 days ago.
What an addition, the sound is even better ... clear, rich, warm, I am so thrilled.

The only negative point was I really had to use quite some force and rotation to first time get it in, which I thought was odd. I told them I wanted to use it on that specific instrument.
Some time with 1200 grain sandpaper, fine polish and patience later, it moves smooth in and out.
I can only highly recommend that Leadpipe.

Using the above information, I called a Shires dealer to order this ns leadpipe and related this problem to the store. I asked them to relate this to Shires when they placed the order. Further, I requested the ns leadpipe be specifically tested on a GM horn to be certain it fit correctly. I received the LP directly from Shires in two days! IT DOES NOT FIT! Today I measured it. Where it first enters the slide the ns LP is 0.5” inches. The same point on my original LP is 0.49” inches! OBVIOUSLY, NOBODY DID THE TEST I REQUESTED EVEN AFTER I BROUGHT THIS POSSIBLE PROBLEM TO THEIR ATTENTION AND SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED IT BE TESTED BEFORE SENDING IT TO ME! YOMMV.

RETURNING A DEFECTIVE SHIRES PRODUCT YET AGAIN FOR A REFUND!

What a blankety-blank hassle Shires!

[HermanGerman]

[

Hello Herm,

let me quote Eleanor Roosewelt:

Small minds discuss (judge) people.
Average minds discuss events.
Great minds discuss ideas.

Hello Nobby
let me quote Aesop:

"hic Rhodus, hic salta"

or

"Let´s hear it for the boys".... your trombone skills!!

Herm

[MStarke]

Maybe I am missing something in this conversation.
Most people here talk about instruments and have more or less strong opinions about them.
Some people openly share their identity which also allows some sort of impression. Only very few share playing examples.
Why this certain push towards one individual to do so? He has given a fair explanation of his (?) background and experience. Take it or leave it.
Or am I getting something wrong, Herman German?

[Nobbi]

Just just had Shires build a .500 Nickel-Silver Leadpipe with Venturi 3 for my MG Shires ... got it 3 days ago.
What an addition, the sound is even better ... clear, rich, warm, I am so thrilled.

The only negative point was I really had to use quite some force and rotation to first time get it in, which I thought was odd. I told them I wanted to use it on that specific instrument.
Some time with 1200 grain sandpaper, fine polish and patience later, it moves smooth in and out.
I can only highly recommend that Leadpipe.

Using the above information, I called a Shires dealer to order this ns leadpipe and related this problem to the store. I asked them to relate this to Shires when they placed the order. Further, I requested the ns leadpipe be specifically tested on a GM horn to be certain it fit correctly. I received the LP directly from Shires in two days! IT DOES NOT FIT! Today I measured it. Where it first enters the slide the ns LP is 0.5” inches. The same point on my original LP is 0.49” inches! OBVIOUSLY, NOBODY DID THE TEST I REQUESTED EVEN AFTER I BROUGHT THIS POSSIBLE PROBLEM TO THEIR ATTENTION AND SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED IT BE TESTED BEFORE SENDING IT TO ME! YOMMV.

RETURNING A DEFECTIVE SHIRES PRODUCT YET AGAIN FOR A REFUND!

What a blankety-blank hassle Shires!

I am sorry for your experience, MODEL34.
Means 125 micrometers of material that needs to be taken off. That's a lot ... original thickness is about 550 micrometers. I don't think I had to take off that much on mine.
If they don't take it back or you decide to keep it ... I can offer to make it fit your MG.

[Model34]

Thanks Nobbi, I believe it may be covered. I sent the defective one back to California from where it was shipped to me. Then later today Nick at S—repair e-maled me to let me know he had some new one made that he personally tested in MG slides to be sure they fit right. I asked him to send one to me. I’ll probably hear from him tomorrow. So I tentatively think I'm covered. I’ll let you know. Thanks again for he offer.

[Doug Elliott]

Any drawn tube has variations and is not precise in size. A leadpipe going into a slide tube is two imprecise drawn tubes that are supposed to be a relatively tight fit. It is not surprising to me that something may need to be adjusted. I wouldn't call that "defective," it's to be expected. Even from Shires.

A loose fit goes together easily but that doesn't make it right.

[harrisonreed]

Maybe I am missing something in this conversation.
Most people here talk about instruments and have more or less strong opinions about them.
Some people openly share their identity which also allows some sort of impression. Only very few share playing examples.
Why this certain push towards one individual to do so? He has given a fair explanation of his (?) background and experience. Take it or leave it.
Or am I getting something wrong, Herman German?

Herm often has strong statements here but we don't have any examples of his/their playing or know who they are, either. I don't anyways.

[HermanGerman]

Yes, harrison, and that is exactly my point. Here are a lot of guys who recommend horns, mps, leadpipes and so on but we do not have any knowledge if they have the ability to judge.
Many of them may be - or are - lousy players (like Nobbie) and that drives me mad sometimes, sorry.
I mean there is a lot of money spend for a Shires or Edwards or whatever. And if someone you don´t know anything about praises a product something is getting wrong.
I have played all the trombones I recommend foryears...many of them in many settings. I am not a classical player, I am playing Jazz and popular stuff.
Nobby speaks about Jazz trombones but his experience is playing flugelhorn in an amateur brasss band..he is playing trombone for a few month (and not practising that much). He has no idea about sound (just read his older posts). Comparing a 2B to a 5B...hello??
Maybe this a reason why most of the pro players left this forum? And yes, my postings are not politically correct...but I know someone here who has the same problem )
If you like I make a clip of my trombone playing and make it public..but I would like that some other guys do the same. So it will be possible to classify a judgement or recommendation..

[MStarke]

While I do see some of the reasoning - and it's certainly necessary to take any recommendations here with a grain of salt - I find the way you are judging others here unacceptable. And I would also tell you this in real life.

[Nobbi]

I would love to come back to the topic ...

from Doug's comment inspired I guess, even the trombone's mouthpiece seats are probably within the same line slightly different.
In easy words: Model34, your MP seat seems to be tighter than mine ... I measured my NS pipe at the bottom (what goes in first) and it has exactly 0.500 (12.7mm). Means, your new NS pipe very likely will fit my MP seat easily.

Nobbi

[Model34]

Nobbi,

Interesting, but sad to hear.

FWIW, My leadpipes from Rath have always fit!

Thanks

[Matt K]

Hermann has received an official warning. Disparaging remarks about others playing is out-of-bounds.