left shoulder discomfort

[SwissTbone]

I use both, the Sheridan and the Wise Grip. Both work very nicely for me.

The Sheridan I only use on my bass trombone. It not only takes a lot of weight away from the fingers, it also gives me more room to actually use my two valves in tricky passages.

The Wise grip really helps, it just makes more grip at the slide brace, but it can make all the difference. I'd like it a little larger though.

Both are extremely low profile and come off really easily and fast.

[ArbanRubank]

I resisted the use of a hand brace for a long time. I think it was because I saw someone using it once and I didn't really care for the person who was using it. I must have identified the brace with the person I didn't care much for. That's human nature, I suppose. The same kind of human nature that will reject a very good idea because one doesn't like the source and yet accept that same idea if it came from a likeable source.

Anyway, I overcame my mental obstacle due to the sheer necessity of either using one or switching from trombone to tambourine. I guess you might say that I evolved from swearing at one to swearing by one. Hope all of you find something workable.

[timothy42b]

I have found a lack of humor on this site as well and I think it's b/c humor can be tricky. What I might find hilarious might be patently offensive to some one else. I think that has an overall dampening effect. But frankly, I don't give a damn. Lol.

Actually I do not think that is the case.

I think the forum in general is appreciative most of the time. However there are 2 or 3 individuals who don't get it and are fairly strongly irritated by it. I try to avoid it in conversation with them, but inevitably I forget. Like the scorpion, it's my nature.

[timothy42b]

I wish there was a NeoTech Brace for my chops!

There is, at least for high range.

It's called a trumpet.

[ArbanRubank]

I go by what Linda Ronstadt said once - that she felt she had to sing hard every night to keep her chops up. There's just nothing better than playing correctly at least once a day. It's that old "the outside of a trombone is good for the inside of me" thing. The NeoTech Brace helps me in that regard.

[baileyman]

Trombones typically try to dip forward and separately they try to rotate to the left. Can you tell which one of those motions you are resisting and causing the pain?

[ArbanRubank]

Thanks, no, largely b/c there's no pain anymore and that's how I intend to keep it. I still use the brace b/c it makes it that much easier for me to hold the horn and doubly so if I have a mute or Silent Brass system stuck in my bell - especially for longer periods of play time. I don't know why they still make single-trigger bass trombones so nose-heavy. Maybe an added counter-weight would have too much of a deadening effect.

[PosauneCat]

I use both, the Sheridan and the Wise Grip. Both work very nicely for me.

The Sheridan I only use on my bass trombone. It not only takes a lot of weight away from the fingers, it also gives me more room to actually use my two valves in tricky passages.

The Wise grip really helps, it just makes more grip at the slide brace, but it can make all the difference. I'd like it a little larger though.

Both are extremely low profile and come off really easily and fast.

On Doug Yeo’s website he mentions a wooden grip made by Stan Taylor similar to the Wise Grip which looks really nice. However, the link Doug shared is dead. It must have gone out of production. Too bad, it looks larger and very nice! Here’s a link to the article that included the photo and description, it’s about 2/3 the way down the page:

http://www.yeodoug.com/resources/faq/fa ... nsion.html

[PosauneCat]

I resisted the use of a hand brace for a long time. I think it was because I saw someone using it once and I didn't really care for the person who was using it. I must have identified the brace with the person I didn't care much for. That's human nature, I suppose. The same kind of human nature that will reject a very good idea because one doesn't like the source and yet accept that same idea if it came from a likeable source.

Anyway, I overcame my mental obstacle due to the sheer necessity of either using one or switching from trombone to tambourine. I guess you might say that I evolved from swearing at one to swearing by one. Hope all of you find something workable.

Hey, there are many more gigs for tambourine players than trombonists! You might want to still consider that career move.

[PosauneCat]

Actually I do not think that is the case.

I think the forum in general is appreciative most of the time. However there are 2 or 3 individuals who don't get it and are fairly strongly irritated by it. I try to avoid it in conversation with them, but inevitably I forget. Like the scorpion, it's my nature.

I know what, and perhaps who, you mean. The scorpion and frog fable was is very apropos. I often forget too.

[PosauneCat]

Trombones typically try to dip forward and separately they try to rotate to the left. Can you tell which one of those motions you are resisting and causing the pain?

After attaching the NeoTech brace I discovered I was using wat too much force with my left arm/hand too increase mpc pressure! That’s a very valuable piece of info that I didn’t expect to come from this brace exploration. I knew it would help but didn’t think the brace would also be somewhat of a diagnostic tool.

[ArbanRubank]

Lol. Thanks again. I intend to stick with the NeoTech Brace and not experiment. Sometimes you already have what you need. For me, it's just a better way to hold the horn. Good luck with YOUR quest!

[hyperbolica]

Of the grip type aids, I've found the Get-a-grip to be my favorite, although there are some horns it doesn't fit on well. It doesn't do anything for the rest of my arm, but it helps the fingers grip, especially on bass. I had a soldered on Greenhoe, and it worked great, but didn't fit into a lot of cases. I've tried the Neotech, Curtis, and some others which seem to work well, but again might not fit in your case and can't be moved from horn to horn. I think I'd like the Clebsch strap or the Yamaha or the one from Leather Specialties.

[hyperbolica]

I have found a lack of humor on this site as well and I think it's b/c humor can be tricky. What I might find hilarious might be patently offensive to some one else. I think that has an overall dampening effect. But frankly, I don't give a damn. Lol.

Actually I do not think that is the case.

I think the forum in general is appreciative most of the time. However there are 2 or 3 individuals who don't get it and are fairly strongly irritated by it. I try to avoid it in conversation with them, but inevitably I forget. Like the scorpion, it's my nature.

I've visited a forum where they use a special color for sarcasm and encouraged emojis for anything you might say that's not strictly factual. A little awkward, but once you get used to it, they had better off-topic conversations, and I think fewer misunderstandings.

[Bach5G]

The straps are not great but may be good enough and the cost is pretty low. They help the left wrist but might not do anything for your shoulder.

[Burgerbob]

None of the grip aids will help the shoulder directly. Ergobone is the only solution to that particular problem.

I do recommend a grip aid for the hand, wrist, fingers though.

[Kbiggs]

None of the grip aids will help the shoulder directly. Ergobone is the only solution to that particular problem.

I do recommend a grip aid for the hand, wrist, fingers though.

Yep.

I use both, the Sheridan and the Wise Grip. Both work very nicely for me.

The Sheridan I only use on my bass trombone. It not only takes a lot of weight away from the fingers, it also gives me more room to actually use my two valves in tricky passages.

The Wise grip really helps, it just makes more grip at the slide brace, but it can make all the difference. I'd like it a little larger though.

Both are extremely low profile and come off really easily and fast.

This is what I currently use, too: Sheridan on my bass, Wise on my tenor. I still have an Ergobone, and have used it occasionally when I play a lot and my left shoulder gets tired, or if I’ve sprained/strained my back (which happens all too frequently these days.)

[ithinknot]

I haven't yet felt the need for these things on tenor, but the idea of going without on bass is unthinkable. This is a cosmically insignificant activity - the appropriate amount of pain involved is zero (barring pre-existing issues, of course!). Leave the wincing to the listeners.

Not a fan of the various straps - I'm sure they work fine for most people, aside from being a little fiddly, but the torque on the slide can't be good. It's probably not enough to matter in most cases, but it's there, and I'd rather it wasn't.

Rath (or Hagmann/K&H/etc) rests are great. Take some setting up to find exactly the right position, but work perfectly once dialled in. Do they affect the sound? Yes. They don't weigh much themselves, but there's a considerable load on them once they're in use, and it does change bell/feedback behavior. Enough to matter? Up to you, and very possibly not. (If you were building a modular horn and were planning to use one of these, you'd want to have it present during testing - might end up with a lighter bell to compensate. Or something. Dunno.)

Neotech? Cheap. Height offset might or might not be to your taste.

Get-a-grip? Mr Sheridan won't ship internationally, so I've never tried the original, but I've made a few similar things of my own. Work well. Having done so, I'm sort of surprised it works as a one-size commercial product, in that it takes a lot of compound curve tweaking to get it exactly right for your specific hands and horn - particularly to direct the load more to the back of the hand than the bone/index knuckle inside the main curve. That's not too hard to do with a blowtorch and two pairs of parallel action pliers in front of you, but it's a bit late for major adjustments once there's padding and leather involved. I have a few other ideas in this area I haven't tried yet, but there are only so many ways to address the issue that fit the space/case/user adjustability constraints.

support.jpg

[PosauneCat]

None of the grip aids will help the shoulder directly. Ergobone is the only solution to that particular problem.

I do recommend a grip aid for the hand, wrist, fingers though.

Hey BB,

I watched your YouTube video on Get-A-Grip and thought it looked very interesting. I need support more for my hand a fingers to free things up and the G-A-G looks flexible (in terms of positioning, not flexing the metal) enough to be helpful. You said in the video it was pretty hard to adjust, which I guess is just bending the metal to fit your needs. Am I right about that? Can the leather cover be removed while adjusting?

I like the NeoTech brace a lot, but I wish it had a even more options for adjusting tilt. I got it to a point that I like, but It'll take a while to get used to.

[Burgerbob]

None of the grip aids will help the shoulder directly. Ergobone is the only solution to that particular problem.

I do recommend a grip aid for the hand, wrist, fingers though.

Hey BB,

I watched your YouTube video on Get-A-Grip and thought it looked very interesting. I need support more for my hand a fingers to free things up and the G-A-G looks flexible (in terms of positioning, not flexing the metal) enough to be helpful. You said in the video it was pretty hard to adjust, which I guess is just bending the metal to fit your needs. Am I right about that? Can the leather cover be removed while adjusting?

I like the NeoTech brace a lot, but I wish it had a even more options for adjusting tilt. I got it to a point that I like, but It'll take a while to get used to.

The leather can't be removed, so it's all trying to bend it by hand or trying not to ruin the leather with pliers. I actually prefer the leather straps for most horns just because they almost always work. The GaG is pretty picky, and I'm always pleasantly surprised when it fits and works when I'm playing.

[sf105]

I bought an ErgoBone for my contra (so I can make it past 4 bars). It requires time to set up but does work. I also found that I sound a little better because it avoids the temptation to hang on to my top lip when my arm is getting tired.
For my bass, I use a Get-a-grip (somehow got it shipped to the UK). The traditional grip is so obviously unergonomic. One thing to watch out for is a tendency to dip and end up supporting the horn with the slide.

[baileyman]

A coupla thee things sticking out the back could be adjusted to eliminate most dip and all twist:

https://media.nbcnewyork.com/2019/09/58 ... =850%2C478

Can't figure out how to put the picture in.

[Kbiggs]

A coupla thee things sticking out the back could be adjusted to eliminate most dip and all twist:

https://media.nbcnewyork.com/2019/09/58 ... =850%2C478

Can't figure out how to put the picture in.

On the old TF, there was a member (I don’t remember who…?) who had a home-made counter-balance device something like this. If I remember it correctly, it was a long pole attached with a hose clamp to the receiver end of the slide between the lock nut and the brace. There were weights attached to the end of the pole. The pole was slung backwards, parallel to the neckpipe. The person who made it said it was a good counter weight, and also helped with side-to-side torsion. I never tried it, but it looked interesting.

Anybody know where that link is?

[Oslide]

This one?

For that matter, you may want to look at the contraption Heinz Gries put on his trombone. It's his avatar.

here is a better pic of these

[timothy42b]

A coupla thee things sticking out the back could be adjusted to eliminate most dip and all twist:

https://media.nbcnewyork.com/2019/09/58 ... =850%2C478

Can't figure out how to put the picture in.

On the old TF, there was a member (I don’t remember who…?) who had a home-made counter-balance device something like this. If I remember it correctly, it was a long pole attached with a hose clamp to the receiver end of the slide between the lock nut and the brace. There were weights attached to the end of the pole. The pole was slung backwards, parallel to the neckpipe. The person who made it said it was a good counter weight, and also helped with side-to-side torsion. I never tried it, but it looked interesting.

Anybody know where that link is?

Yes. That member was Ken, who went by NajaXXXXXX (I added xs where i couldn't remember his user name.)

I made one and used it recently on a two hour rehearsal and survived with my 42B, without Motrin after. that was a first.

It eliminates the weight completely. It blocks the side to side torque but that adjustment is tricky. The connection to the horn is awkward and doesn't fit in a case. On fast passages it tends to bounce - i know that is my fault for slide technique but it is still a problem.

I have photos saved on another PC. Possibly I can do a video if you are interested.

For the benefit of members who don't remember the thread. Ken devised a scheme where similar to the Ergobone, where the weight of the trombone in front of you is exactly balanced by a weight on a stick that rests on your shoulder and extends behind you.

[timothy42b]

Hans Gries's invention is a great idea, because you don't need near as much counterweight if you can extend the lever arm a bit.

[baileyman]

I don't remember if I posted my own attempt when I had a sore wrist. Essentially, I relocated the "Bach" weight to a dowel that I then lashed to the horn, with hook and loop strap, at the same location, the dowel extending orthogonally to my right from the ordinary weight location. The horn was pretty well balanced fore and aft so the ordinary spot was good, but the leftward twist was what bothered me. The outrigger extending behind my head with the standard weight on it completely eliminated the twist. Negligible change in total weight, just redistribution.

[timothy42b]

Apparently I did a video some years back.

Please don't criticize the playing.

On the other hand, it is a pBone and despite my lack of skill, on good speakers it sounds like a trombone (see other thread.)

[Kbiggs]

Yep, that’s it. Ken/NajaXXXXXX ‘s invention. Heinzgries’s version is more elegant.

[PosauneCat]

Update:

I bought the NeoTech, Get-A-Grip, and Wise Grip,

The NeoTech has great potential, but it ultimately didn’t work for me because the fine-adjustment just isn’t fine enough for my hand. I either got too much tilt or not enough. Also, it was either too close or too far from the f-trigger.

The Get-A-Grip (GAG) is fantastic. After an hour of tweaking I got it positioned just right! Bending it along the flat surface is pretty easy, but torquing it along the sides is a bitch! I ended up using a vice and brute force.

The Wise Grip essentially makes the top slide brace thicker, hence more comfy. It fits along with the GAG perfectly and the combo makes for a very comfortable grip and stable support that still allows left hand movement which is quite restricted by the NeoTech.

It fits both my large bore and small bore horns. I’m a happy camper.

Thanks to you all for your suggestions!

Michael

[MTbassbone]

A few years ago I ran into the same issue. The pain would start in my wrist/forearm, move up my arm into my shoulder, and then into my neck. I tried using the bullet brace, Sheridan's Get A Grip, Wiseman Grip, and the strap. The most comfortable was the Get A Grip, but it seemed to move and bend too much. The most consistent (same place every time with no movement) was Bullet Brace, and it had a reasonable amount of comfort. The thing that helped the most though was focusing on how I held the instrument (left arm position, amount of strength to grip the instrument, etc), and any movement that was unnecessary. Additionally, doing some mild strength training with small weights seemed to be helpful. IMHO I think it is important to acknowledge the holding aids are tools to assist rather than solve a problem. However, it can one tool in a multi tool approach to assist with the problem. When I start to get tension when I am playing I know that something is out of balance.