Announcing: TromboneChat

ttf_oslide · Post by **ttf_oslide** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:01 pm

Thanks to all who have taken the effort!
Nice to see so many familiar faces already.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:44 pm

I've done my part to register. (Lucked out on the Captcha code - guessed it the first time. Most difficult to discern that I've ever encountered. Aren't there easier versions of Captcha available?)

Now I'm waiting for a Moderator to approve my TromboneChat "application."

See you on the other side!

ttf_SethMatrix · Post by **ttf_SethMatrix** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:54 pm

I registered.

trombonechat doesn't seem to show up on google. That is probably important to bring in new members.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 7:59 pm

I've also taken the leap....

Here goes...

ttf_Todd Jonz · Post by **ttf_Todd Jonz** » Fri Mar 04, 2016 9:03 pm

SethMatrix writes:

> trombonechat doesn't seem to show up on google.

There's likely to be a bit of search engine optimization to be done, but considering that the site has been open for business for less than twelve hours now it's not really surprising that Google doesn't know about it yet. Still, as I write this 113 members have registered and made 250 posts in 65 threads (granted, some of which are "welcome" and "rules" posts.) I'd say that's pretty good for the site's first day. Thanks to all of you who have registered. Tell your friends. And get out there and chat!

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:12 am

Yeah, Google has a formula for determining how things show up. Tromboneforum shows up a lot because it gets linked from other places a lot. One of the key factors, although not deciding factors, in whether or not google displays something is it being linked on other sites when they do their crawler. By the end of the week, it'll definitely be #1 whe you search for "trombone chat" and probably pretty close to the front page when you just search for trombone.

ttf_patrickosmith · Post by **ttf_patrickosmith** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:44 am

I registered.

ttf_patrickosmith · Post by **ttf_patrickosmith** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:54 am

Quote from: BGuttman on Mar 04, 2016, 12:05PMRight now I'm glad I'm not approving new memberships...

Please let us know what you like and what you don't like. We tried to take the best things from TTF (which I hope will remain for the wealth of information it contains).

Please remember to read the Terms of Use.
It doesn't. We are starting over. If there is something here you want to move, let us know and we'll see if it can be done.

Everything looks great except for one oddity. In looking over the categories of the new website, I'm irked by the calling out of only one of the greats in brass pedagogy. In so doing you have placed Reinhardt above Caruso, Crisafulli, Jacobs, Schlossberg, Remington, and probably many others I've failed to recall off the top of my head. You might get more members contributing information by titling the category as "Pedagogical Greats," moving Reinhardt down a directory, and adding the others.

I'd like to have copied everything I've written there. It is a record of my travels from the very beginning of my third time starting as a beginner. The third time is the charm of course.

ttf_58mark · Post by **ttf_58mark** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:15 am

Quote from: patrickosmith on Mar 05, 2016, 04:54AMEverything looks great except for one oddity. In looking over the categories of the new website, I'm irked by the calling out of only one of the greats in brass pedagogy. In so doing you have placed Reinhardt above Caruso, Crisafulli, Jacobs, Schlossberg, Remington, and probably many others I've failed to recall off the top of my head. You might get more members contributing information by titling the category as "Pedagogical Greats," moving Reinhardt down a directory, and adding the others.

I'd like to have copied everything I've written there. It is a record of my travels from the very beginning of my third time starting as a beginner. The third time is the charm of course.

That was one thread submitted by one person on the first day. It shouldn't be taken as a sole endorsement

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:51 am

Quote from: patrickosmith on Mar 05, 2016, 04:54AMEverything looks great except for one oddity. In looking over the categories of the new website, I'm irked by the calling out of only one of the greats in brass pedagogy. In so doing you have placed Reinhardt above Caruso, Crisafulli, Jacobs, Schlossberg, Remington, and probably many others I've failed to recall off the top of my head. You might get more members contributing information by titling the category as "Pedagogical Greats," moving Reinhardt down a directory, and adding the others.
There are and have been many brass teachers with their own approaches to teaching, but Reinhardt holds a very special place among brass pedagogues. He is the only one who truly discovered something new, that is the basis of understanding how and why different embouchures work as they do. And that understanding has allowed me to continue along that path in my own playing and teaching.

ttf_robcat2075 · Post by **ttf_robcat2075** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:07 am

I'm disappointed that moderators from the Trombone Forum have decided to undermine it with a competing forum.

This is a classic internet-age mistake.

ttf_Euphanasia · Post by **ttf_Euphanasia** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:14 am

Quote from: robcat2075 on Mar 05, 2016, 07:07AMI'm disappointed that moderators from the Trombone Forum have decided to undermine it with a competing forum.

This is a classic internet-age mistake.

It would also be a classic internet-age mistake to not have an option available in case the Forum folds. I appreciate everything Richard did in establishing this forum in its current form and supporting it over the years, and I do think much of what has been posted here advocating a coup d'etat was disrespectful to him. However, this is something different. I think the Mods have a point. If he's not able to support the site, it makes sense to have another option available.

ttf_RedHotMama · Post by **ttf_RedHotMama** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:25 am

We have had no indication whatsoever that RLB will not continue to support this site.

Had a quick peek at the new one. I hate the look of it. It's just like a thousand other fora.

It's like The Open Horn used to be, and that didn't last long.

This - The Trombone Forum - is the only forum I know which looks good. It looks different and I like it.

I won't be moving over.

However, I hope it goes well for you all, whoever you are and whatever you want from it.

ttf_patrickosmith · Post by **ttf_patrickosmith** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:29 am

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Mar 05, 2016, 06:51AMHe is the only one who truly discovered something new
No

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:35 am

Sorry Patrick, a partial quote won't do, you left out the important part.
No other teacher addressed the issue of different embouchures or how they work.
And that is a VERY important part of "brass pedagogy."

ttf_patrickosmith · Post by **ttf_patrickosmith** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:46 am

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Mar 05, 2016, 07:35AMSorry Patrick, a partial quote won't do, you left out the important part.
No other teacher addressed the issue of different embouchures or how they work.
And that is a VERY important part of "brass pedagogy."

My points are:
1. You have placed Reinhardt above Caruso, Crisafulli, Jacobs, Schlossberg, Remington, and probably many others I've failed to recall off the top of my head. Some people will find this offensive and narrow-minded.

2. You might get more members contributing information by titling the category as "Pedagogical Greats," moving Reinhardt down a directory, and adding the others.

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:53 am

It's a brand new forum, it will grow as we all see fit.
I was studying with John Marcellus at the same time I was studying with Reinhardt. I think he belongs on that list too, but I don't remember ever seeing him talked about on TTF or anywhere else.

ttf_patrickosmith · Post by **ttf_patrickosmith** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:10 am

Quote from: Doug Elliott on Mar 05, 2016, 07:53AMIt's a brand new forum, it will grow as we all see fit.
I was studying with John Marcellus at the same time I was studying with Reinhardt. I think he belongs on that list too, but I don't remember ever seeing him talked about on TTF or anywhere else.
Yes, that's another one as well.

ttf_bubbachet · Post by **ttf_bubbachet** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:09 am

Quote from: RedHotMama on Mar 05, 2016, 07:25AMWe have had no indication whatsoever that RLB will not continue to support this site.

Had a quick peek at the new one. I hate the look of it. It's just like a thousand other fora.

It's like The Open Horn used to be, and that didn't last long.

This - The Trombone Forum - is the only forum I know which looks good. It looks different and I like it.

I won't be moving over.

However, I hope it goes well for you all, whoever you are and whatever you want from it.

We are already tweaking the layout of the new forum, and are working hard on getting other themes set up for use.

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 9:56 am

Categories for:

1 gun threads
2 Bible threads
3 one reserved for Ronky, BvB et al to bash away

ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:35 am

Quote from: Euphanasia on Mar 05, 2016, 07:14AMIt would also be a classic internet-age mistake to not have an option available in case the Forum folds. I appreciate everything Richard did in establishing this forum in its current form and supporting it over the years, and I do think much of what has been posted here advocating a coup d'etat was disrespectful to him. However, this is something different. I think the Mods have a point. If he's not able to support the site, it makes sense to have another option available.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:49 am

Quote from: Ellrod on Mar 05, 2016, 09:56AMCategories for:

1 gun threads
2 Bible threads
3 one reserved for Ronky, BvB et al to bash away

In the Tangents we have Off-Topic which is like Chit-Chat, and REALLY Off-topic which is where all of those threads would go. They set me up as Bash-Master.

ttf_sabutin · Post by **ttf_sabutin** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:51 am

Quote from: RedHotMama on Mar 05, 2016, 07:25AMWe have had no indication whatsoever that RLB will not continue to support this site.

Had a quick peek at the new one. I hate the look of it. It's just like a thousand other fora.

It's like The Open Horn used to be, and that didn't last long.

This - The Trombone Forum - is the only forum I know which looks good. It looks different and I like it.

I won't be moving over.

However, I hope it goes well for you all, whoever you are and whatever you want from it.

The Open Horn served its purpose. When TTF opened up from the heavily censored Richard Human regime...and stayed that way...there was no need to continue The Open Horn. Too much trouble for a busy pro to manage. So it goes. This new one? TTF is functioning very well now. As long as it remains functioning there is really no practical reason to start another one. But...and it is a big but...unless RLB somehow allows this site to be duplicated in case of emergency (and "emergencies" happen to us all, eventually), a new site is a plus. Maybe it will serve to help fix some of the problems that so many people have seen here (as did The Open Horn), and maybe it won't. For that matter, maybe the various trombone Facebook pages will steal the thunder from all websites of this sort. I don't know, and neither does anyone else.

Best of luck to everybody.

I am currently posting trombone-related info here, because I can reach...and be reached by...the largest number of people with the least effort on my part. I am posting elsewhere as well, on some Facebook pages that do not want anyone but highly qualified people posting on them and are thus moderator-limited in terms of membership. I like the openness of this forum, but I also enjoy talking almost exclusively with very good players and teachers. We shall see what will happen in the near future. I personally wish that RLB could/would remain the webmaster here...he's done a damned good job, overall, at I am sure a fairly low monetary profit...but if he does not see fit to involve himself in it anymore and will not provide backup, I am sure that this site will eventually go down to stay. So that goes as well. It'll all work out for the best. It always does.

Later...

S.

ttf_Sliphorn · Post by **ttf_Sliphorn** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:51 am

Quote from: RedHotMama on Mar 05, 2016, 07:25AMWe have had no indication whatsoever that RLB will not continue to support this site.

Had a quick peek at the new one. I hate the look of it. It's just like a thousand other fora.

It's like The Open Horn used to be, and that didn't last long.

This - The Trombone Forum - is the only forum I know which looks good. It looks different and I like it.

I won't be moving over.

However, I hope it goes well for you all, whoever you are and whatever you want from it.
It's not necessarily an indication that we won't get more support here, but I have reached out to Richard and he never responded. He has historically been unresponsive. It's not like I haven't tried.

No one is crossing their fingers and hoping TTF folds. But having three active members with the keys to the new forum is a good idea and we won't be having many of the problems that have been plaguing TTF for years. It's nothing personal. I just want to make sure that the community exists in perpetuity and is sustainable.

And for those who don't like the look, you can change the theme. Plus I'll be looking into creating some custom themes.

Think positively and consider the goods that accompany the perceived bads.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:57 am

Quote from: Ellrod on Mar 05, 2016, 09:56AMCategories for:

1 gun threads
2 Bible threads
3 one reserved for Ronky, BvB et al to bash away

NEXT!!!!

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 12:36 pm

Is there enough business to support both sites, as well as the various FB pages? Or will both sites suffer?

ttf_Sliphorn · Post by **ttf_Sliphorn** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 2:43 pm

I hope neither suffers. Seemed necessary.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:18 pm

I have a love/hate relationship with TTF. Some times it is like watching a slow motion auto crash... I ...just...can't ....look....away. Even when I know that somebody 18 years old who has never done a paid gig in their life is advising a 17 year old how to spend $7K of their parent's money on a horn they won't spend $50 on lessons to play.
That said--

Lots of professionals have had great websites with fora over the years. Doug Yeo comes to mind. Sam Burtis comes to mind. That said, there will never be a time when actually getting out the horn and practicing won't solve your problems. Nothing on the internet will actually move your physical body into getting out the horn. You can't be manipulated into moving your muscles to make the case open and improve your skill, by a technological device.

TromboneChat? Just another diversion. That said, I have learned a lot about vintage horns from the discussions over the years. I have a profound appreciation for all of the discussion by guys like the late Erling, and I really do love dj. If things weren't written they would have been lost.

My concern? The golden age happened about 10 or 15 years ago. Lots to say-- and almost all of it never written before. The boutique makers rose out of the ashes of the loss of quality on the major makers front...from the discussions. There was a demand for good quality horns. A demand for GREAT quality horns.
Will that demand continue? Nobody knows. How many new Shires/Rath/boutique horns are the professionals going to buy when the life of a horn is 30+ years and they have one from 10 years ago?

How many times can you discuss a new horn before the discussion gets stale?
How many message boards do you need to b*tch about the loss of quality at Conn-Selmer?
Will all the on-line b*tching influence Conn-Selmer to even make half of an attempt to increase their efforts?

It's a soap opera.
Can you watch two soap operas? Probably.

ttf_tbathras · Post by **ttf_tbathras** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 3:50 pm

Quote from: Sliphorn on Mar 05, 2016, 02:43PMI hope neither suffers. Seemed necessary.

For me, basically, if I have anything of value to post, I'll post on the new site and then post a link to that here in the corresponding topic. But I'm small potatoes- it'll take the big guys doing the same to really move people's attention over to the new site.

The writing is on the wall - TTF is going to die if it's not given the serious attention it needs and I think that ship has sailed.

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:46 pm

I don't practice enough as it is.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 6:03 pm

Personally, I'm hoping that this will wake Richard up to let some of us Admins do some major maintenance on this site:

1. The 2 year old plea for money that doesn't seem to change needs to be removed. We can simply have a Donate button. But somebody should be keeping the donor list up to date.
2. Meet the Staff has people listed who are no longer acting as staff (and one is dead!). It doesn't have people who are acting as staff. Both RedHotMama and I have offered to edit it, but it's not a regular part of the Forum we can access.
3. The TTF Cookbook is a mess. RedHotMama has offered to clean it up but it also is not a regular part of the Forum.
4. The TTF Classifieds (the one that we replaced with the temporary system we have dealt with for so many years) should be resurrected. Again, none of us Admins have access to it.

You may note that the Classifieds on TromboneChat have the categories most of you have asked for.

Quite frankly, TromboneChat was a response to a few problems with the management of this Site.

Note of caution: Please be aware that TromboneChat is based in "the cloud" and anything on there is subject to data mining. Don't put any personal details you wouldn't want on the front page of your local newspaper.

ttf_Todd Jonz · Post by **ttf_Todd Jonz** » Sat Mar 05, 2016 7:50 pm

Bruce writes:

> Please be aware that TromboneChat is based in "the cloud" and
> anything on there is subject to data mining. Don't put any
> personal details you wouldn't want on the front page of
> your local newspaper.

Er, content on Trombone Chat is no more or less subject to "data mining" than content on TTF.

ttf_blast · Post by **ttf_blast** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:05 am

Let's be clear....
The Admins... the people who set up and run the new site.... are not moderators here.
Some of us were asked to help with moderating.... I think that is reasonable as long as those involved keep working here in the way they have been.
This site is controlled by one person who is generally not around.
There is much that Admins and mods here cannot do.
The new site can... and will... change according to user demand.... now that's new.

Chris Stearn

ttf_SethMatrix · Post by **ttf_SethMatrix** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:38 am

Quote from: Ellrod on Mar 05, 2016, 05:46PMI don't practice enough as it is.
This!

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:59 am

I've tried to register twice and can't break the captcha code. I hate those things!
I'm starting to loose interest in joining at all.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:41 am

Quote from: brucolli on Mar 06, 2016, 07:59AMI've tried to register twice and can't break the captcha code. I hate those things!
I'm starting to loose interest in joining at all.

Bruce, you're not a 'bot, are you?

Capcha is great for eliminating the phony accounts I have to reject every day (usually coming from the same general area). I know it's a pain, but keep trying.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:15 am

Quote from: brucolli on Mar 06, 2016, 07:59AMI've tried to register twice and can't break the captcha code. I hate those things!
I'm starting to loose interest in joining at all.

I had to come back in an hour myself. i'm a little color blind, so it did cause some problems. I believe there is an "ask amoderator" button or something to that effect. Perhaps try that and just get your account approved directly?

ttf_Sliphorn · Post by **ttf_Sliphorn** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:02 pm

Quote from: Matt K on Mar 06, 2016, 09:15AMI had to come back in an hour myself. i'm a little color blind, so it did cause some problems. I believe there is an "ask amoderator" button or something to that effect. Perhaps try that and just get your account approved directly?
Does anyone know of any women who are colorblind? I've heard it's only men, but I don't know.

ttf_Doug Elliott · Post by **ttf_Doug Elliott** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:08 pm

I think because of the genes involved, it's only males.

I'm not colorblind, but my wife can see color shade differences that I can't.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:32 pm

Quote from: Sliphorn on Mar 06, 2016, 07:02PMDoes anyone know of any women who are colorblind? I've heard it's only men, but I don't know.

My father-in-law had two sisters who were color blind (as was he). In fact, that whole family had color blindness scattered through their genome.

ttf_LowrBrass · Post by **ttf_LowrBrass** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:46 pm

Quote from: Sliphorn on Mar 06, 2016, 07:02PMDoes anyone know of any women who are colorblind? I've heard it's only men, but I don't know.

According to The Internet, (nih.gov)

QuoteAs many as 8 percent of men and 0.5 percent of women with Northern European ancestry have the common form of red-green color blindness.

Men are much more likely to be colorblind than women because the genes responsible for the most common, inherited color blindness are on the X chromosome. Males only have one X chromosome, while females have two X chromosomes. In females, a functional gene on only one of the X chromosomes is enough to compensate for the loss on the other. This kind of inheritance pattern is called X-linked, and primarily affects males. Inherited color blindness can be present at birth, begin in childhood, or not appear until the adult years.

ttf_Sliphorn · Post by **ttf_Sliphorn** » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:32 pm

Quote from: LowrBrass on Mar 06, 2016, 07:46PMAccording to The Internet, (nih.gov)

Interesting! Sorry to take it off-topic.

ttf_MoominDave · Post by **ttf_MoominDave** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:13 am

I guess those numbers make sense - you'd naively expect one to be the square of the other - needing both copies of the gene to have the modification, with the same probability each time. 8% squared is 0.64%, which is not that far from 0.5%. Perhaps there is another effect at play too.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:28 am

Quote from: Ellrod on Mar 05, 2016, 12:36PMIs there enough business to support both sites, as well as the various FB pages? Or will both sites suffer?

It has finally happened... Slide-O-Mix vs Trombotine has taken ripped the forum asunder.

Cheers,
Andy

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:13 am

Quote from: Euphanasia on Mar 04, 2016, 02:56PMI registered, but only because I didn't want anyone else registering my handle and using it to post long-winded diatribes about word definitions in endless threads about nit-picky topics.

QuoteI'm not sure how this preserves the content of the current forum. (robcat)

QuoteIt doesn't. We are starting over.bruce

Awesome! We get to debate the effects of materials all over again!!!!!!! I'm in!!!!!!!!!

ttf_bubbachet · Post by **ttf_bubbachet** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:16 am

Quote from: brucolli on Mar 06, 2016, 07:59AMI've tried to register twice and can't break the captcha code. I hate those things!
I'm starting to loose interest in joining at all.

I have banished the old CAPTCHA system to the lake of eternal fire.

We are now using ReCAPTCHA from Google.

ttf_RedHotMama · Post by **ttf_RedHotMama** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:17 am

You guys are silly.

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:18 am

I will register and support the new attempt. I've observed that no forum survives without reaching a critical mass of members.

I also note that the old listserv still exists, because we old farts still exist, and a lot of us came to forums kicking and screaming. There's even a scrap of usenet still kicking around, although it's 99% spam.

But the younger folk have moved on to Facebook, and if I ever figure that out I'll find they're gone, onto something else.

That's why I'm a little skeptical about the long term viability of either forum. But I give Doug et al credit for making this attempt, and will try to help make it work.

ttf_ddickerson · Post by **ttf_ddickerson** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:24 am

I think that since TromboneChat have active and talented admins with full control, they will make it a very good addition to the trombone community.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:28 am

I just signed up. Thanks guys. But I'm already having trouble keeping up with the Forum. You just doubled my problem. Why did you feel we needed another online gathering place? Oh, and yes, the Captcha photo was a challenge. But my 1st guess musta worked.