New alto TIS mechanism

[MuscleMouth]

It was one hell of a bargain, that’s my reason.
I purchased a German made alto trombone crafted some time before the end of WWII. It’s on it’s way to me but won’t arrive until mid-July, most likely. It’s in amazing shape and looks to have been a closet trombone for at least 3/4 of a century. The horn was inherited and the owner just wanted to make some money and be away from it. They may have once been chastised for lack of practice on it, or even yelled at about it, in German!
The pictures show no TIS mechanism and small empty spots in the lacquer where the braces for the TIS would be. It’s obvious to me through research that all of the other altos crafted by this maker had exactly the same TIS mechanisms in place. This must be the reason the horn was packed away so safely. It was in need of one small, yet extremely dire repair.
It needs a new TIS mechanism braced in place.
So, who do you know who sells tiny little alto trombone TIS mechanisms, braces and all?
And, if they do in fact have one, would they consider installing it in proper alignment and soldering it to my little German, golden brassed, alto trombone slide? It’s so little. It’s more of a slide-ling, really.
There is a repairman here in San Antonio, Gabe Garza at Álamo Music, who is highly skilled and really looks out for me. He might be able to do it just fine if I can find the right parts.
I’m guessing a tenor TIS mechanism may be too bulky and might weigh down the alto slide too much? If they’re universal then I’ll happily be wrong. I don’t want to DIY the TIS, feel me? I’ve been strictly an in-bell tuning brother since I was 8.
The entire horn is gold brass. I normally wouldn’t purchase anything without at least a sterling silver bell, but this was an amazing bargain for such a historical find. I wouldn’t mind silver or nickel braces on it either, if I was to be choosy.
Any advice or direction will be helpful. Ribbing me for not knowing more about TIS is also completely necessary, absolutely welcome, and of great use to us all.
Thanks yo!
MuscleMouth

[hyperbolica]

You're not likely to find someone who has actually done work like this, so it will need to be someone comfortable with custom work. There's not much to a TIS mechanism, just a threaded rod and a clamp. You might buy stuff like that from Shires, get it from an old horn or make it from other parts. The brace will be the easy part. The clamp will probably the hard part.

Must post pix!

[timothy42b]

Without seeing photos it sounds like your TIS was professionally removed. Who knows why?

Of course you'd like it restored to original, but it may play fine without it. Some of us never move a tuning slide anyway.

Sounds like quite a find.

[hornbuilder]

Can you post some photos of the slide, please? I can make whatever may be needed. There will not be anything "off the shelf" from any manufacturer available for a horn this old.

[Matt K]

Personally, I'd rather have a no-tuning alto. As long as it plays in-tune with itself, I seldom touch my tuning slide. That way you get a really conical instrument with a lightweight slide. At some point I was toying with getting a Rath neckpipe for altos and doing exactly that with my Conn 36H, but that was a weird idea even by my standards.

[harrisonreed]

Personally, I'd rather have a no-tuning alto. As long as it plays in-tune with itself, I seldom touch my tuning slide. That way you get a really conical instrument with a lightweight slide. At some point I was toying with getting a Rath neckpipe for altos and doing exactly that with my Conn 36H, but that was a weird idea even by my standards.

This is what I have. Cut the tuning slide down on the 36H 3/8", and never touch it.

[EdwardSolomon]

If it’s a German alto from before World War II, it’s very unlikely to have had any tuning slide if it does not have one or any trace of work done to remove one. Most traditional German trombones („Konzertposunen“) of the period had no tuning slide whatsoever. Only the highest quality orchestral instruments were usually offered with tuning. Of the five German trombones I own, only two have bell tuning and of those, the alto is post-war.

I wouldn’t expect a German trombone of that period to have any tuning mechanism or even soldered outer slide stays.

[MuscleMouth]

Can you post some photos of the slide, please? I can make whatever may be needed. There will not be anything "off the shelf" from any manufacturer available for a horn this old.

Thanks hornbuilder, it’s good to meet you. I actually have a friend in the Midland Odessa Symphony who has been planning on acquiring one of your bass trombones. I hadn’t heard of your horns until he told me about them, so I was actually just on your site the other day checking them out. I’ll try to post as many pics of the alto as I can. There aren’t very many pics of the actual empty spots on the slide from the missing TIS (which is a total eBay thing to do) but I’ll try to post an example of what it should look like from the same maker as well.

[MuscleMouth]

Can you post some photos of the slide, please? I can make whatever may be needed. There will not be anything "off the shelf" from any manufacturer available for a horn this old.

[MuscleMouth]

Can you post some photos of the slide, please? I can make whatever may be needed. There will not be anything "off the shelf" from any manufacturer available for a horn this old.

[MuscleMouth]

Can you post some photos of the slide, please? I can make whatever may be needed. There will not be anything "off the shelf" from any manufacturer available for a horn this old.

[MStarke]

I saw that one as well and considered buying it.
Would be very interested in your playing impressions!

[hornbuilder]

It would certainly be possible to make the TIS mechanism for this slide.

Funny they say there is no chromium loss. There was never chrome on the tubes to lose! The stocking are bare German Silver (similar to nickel silver)

[Doug Elliott]

I don't really see why you would want to add any hardware to it if the tuning slide will stay in place as it is. Looks pretty heavy already.

[hornbuilder]

I don't really see why you would want to add any hardware to it if the tuning slide will stay in place as it is. Looks pretty heavy already.

I've had experiences with several German made instruments that had a TIS mechanism at the end of the slide. Yes, they're heavy! I have a Kruspe "Penzel" model in my care at present which had a TIS added at some point. It does make the slide rather cumbersome.

I do agree, to some extent, about adding the mechanism. It may not be entirely necessary, if the fit is good.

[Matt K]

Take all those funds you saved on the great deal and have a new slide made for it!

I come up with the best solutions.

But really, you might want to wait until you have horn-in-hand before you go making plans for it. I don't recall ever playing a horn with soldered-on, nickel stockings that had good action. And I'm not very picky about slide action. That is bias, of course, because the horns that are still around that have those are quite old. But if the slide tubes aren't in good shape, which is certainly possible, then you might be putting a lot of money into making a bad problem worse. On the plus side, if I'm wrong and this thing has a smooth slide action, then maybe it works great!

[MuscleMouth]

I purchased it under the impression that maybe someone didn’t quite know what they had. Chromium is still a very cool word to use. MStarke I’m actually surprised someone else saw it. I was the only bidder, and put my bid in at the 3 seconds mark. It was also listed as being built by David Crepin. (?) If you look up the history it’s an Ernst David built trombone, Crepin was his daughter I believe, and she was working the business side of things for him. Late in his career, sometime close to the end of the war, he began putting both of their names on his instruments. His tools were sold in 1945.
It was made in Bielefeld, Germany where my music school friend Dwavehed lives. We used to perform four 1 hour sets every Friday and Saturday night in a band called Bucketfunk from The University of Texas at San Antonio (UTSA). Choreography and dance moves even.
The world is a tiny little green marble in your pocket.
Hornbuilder Mr. Walker, when this trombone arrives I’ll turn it right around and send it straight to you, after I toot around on it just a little of course. If you don’t mind I’d like to go ahead and send you an email with my info and the contact info of my symphony friend. You may know him already.
I’ve been in recording situations where a DJ changed tempos, and pitches, to make things work and in the process the center of pitch ends up being right in between, one sample sped up, one sample slowed down to meet right in the middle of no man’s land. I’ve also recorded with unforgiving electronic music that requires you to be absolutely spot on in pitch from lows to highs. I’ve subbed, twice, as a bassoon in a chamber orchestra by using a cup mute while playing bassoon runs lightning fast to support the “real” principal bassoonist sitting next to me. Being the only brass on stage, and being a slide trombone at that, I was definitely the life of the party. I need the fine tuning. The positions are tinier than tenors and I need the slide itself to move freely enough to fine tune those positions with my thumb and fudge fingers. If I’m lucky the tuning in slide will stay where it’s put, and that will be why there is no locking mechanism. I’ll still want the slide serviced.
Thanks everybody! This chat forum is solving all of my problems. If anyone knows more history or better history that would rock. I’ll post my own pics when it arrives. I hope it travels well.
MuscleMouth

[bcschipper]

This is how the TIS mechanism would look like (here on a tenor). It makes the slide front heavy. Yet, for altos it should be less so than for tenors.

I think if your natural playing angle is more downward, then a front heavy slide is less of a problem than for people holding the instrument more perpendicular to the body.

(On the instrument that is depicted here from about 1880, the slide excellent and the TIS mechanism works beautifully.)

[MStarke]

John, I had seen it multiple times I think. But I didn't bid on it as a) I already have two altos - including one very nice traditional German alto and b) if I would buy another one, I am having something else in mind.
However I would be very interested in your impressions!