Leadpipe with corrosion

[Mamaposaune]

So, I recently acquired a 50-year old Bach 50B that has a few issues, probably from sitting for years without being cleaned properly since there is not a lot of wear.
One is the lead pipe - I have cleaned out the slide several times now with a cleaning snake and detergent, nothing harsh. But I can see what I think is corrosion on the lead pipe when I look down the inner.
My questions are:
How much does this affect how it plays? Leading to....
Should I get it pulled, or just leave it?
I've heard even experienced repair guys sometimes have trouble pulling old leadpipes - how big a problem can this turn into? (The inner slide assembly is otherwise in great shape - I'd hate for the slide action to be affected)
Who makes a lead pipe that would best keep the original playing characteristics of an old Bach intact?
AND possibly related - the outer has red rot. I have decided to get a Butler carbon fiber outer made for it, and am just waiting for the green light from Dave. Wondering if I should ask him about pulling the leadpipe, since he will likely be making adjustments anyhow?

[Burgerbob]

If it plays well, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

If it gets tricky, it can ruin the inner and you need a new inner.

[Matt K]

I mean, I would have it pulled because I have all my stock pipes pulled. But I'm... not normal. If you aren't worried about destroying the pipe, a tech should be able to get it out near 100% of the time. Getting it out intact is more difficult, but good techs who have experience doing it have a much higher %. The 50 pipes are a little loser than the 42 pipes, which are the ones that are notoriously difficult to get out of old horns.

Bach still obviously makes 50 pipes. Their prices are a little high, imo. Although the next recommendation, which is M&K or Brassark which make replica 50 pipes are more expensive but they're also really good. FWIW, a Shires 1.5 is going to be pretty close to the way the Bach plays as well. Newell Sheridan likes to put 1.5s in basses he sells, or at least that's what he told me a few years ago.

One thing you should consider if you're dropping the bread to have a new outer made is if you just want to replace the upper inner slide too. Bach parts are expensive unfortunately, although if you're having an outer made, he can probably just use a Getzen part. Actually, if I were you I might just consider replacing both the upper and the lower slides. Again, I'm not normal though. It's basically the most important part of the instrument.. old slides can be very un-fun to play. Or they can be great. Yours sounds like it might be the former and if you're already dropping whatever amount... well, something to consider. You might even just buy a whole slide from him. Then you don't have to ship stuff back and forth... and you don't have to worry about messing with the leadpipe. He'll just provide one... I think they come with Edwards 2 pipes.

[Burgerbob]

Bach still obviously makes 50 pipes. Their prices are a little high, imo. Although the next recommendation, which is M&K or Brassark which make replica 50 pipes are more expensive but they're also really good.

As far as I know, a new 50 pipe part is far less than $100. I actually moved from a Brassark NY50 to a new stock 50 pipe... they're very very good.

[Matt K]

Bach still obviously makes 50 pipes. Their prices are a little high, imo. Although the next recommendation, which is M&K or Brassark which make replica 50 pipes are more expensive but they're also really good.

As far as I know, a new 50 pipe part is far less than $100. I actually moved from a Brassark NY50 to a new stock 50 pipe... they're very very good.

That's good to hear. I wanted to replace one a few years ago and was shocked by the price but to be honest, I don't remember how much it was. It's also possible I'm confusing the price of the leadpipes with the inner slides. I replaced an inner rather than having it pulled a few years ago on a 50 and it was like $250 for the inner. Now that I type that, I'm almost certain that's what I was thinking.

[ithinknot]

One is the lead pipe - I have cleaned out the slide several times now with a cleaning snake and detergent, nothing harsh. But I can see what I think is corrosion on the lead pipe when I look down the inner.

Even several rounds of detergent/snake alone may do very little to shift scale/calcium/mystery crud so, depending on what it looks like and how well you can see it, it might not (all) be corrosion.

I wouldn't worry quite so much about 'harsh' - you need a certain amount of chemical power to descale, and if that's enough to significantly accelerate the demise of something already badly corroded, well, you've only marginally hastened the inevitable.

If you want to DIY, plug the receiver, white vinegar in the inner, wait 15 mins, brush out with detergent and a VERY SOFT bottle/straw brush. A set of this sort is ideal (even better if you can find them outside of Bezos' Galactic Empire). May require a couple of rounds if there are serious chunks.

(You've got plenty of options, as you could always get a replacement inner from Bach or M/K if pulling the pipe went surprisingly wrong. And, as has been said, if it plays well don't worry about it.)

[elmsandr]

I'm not sure how much I would care about this at all... Is the the corrosion/scale bad enough that chunks are coming off? If not... put in the mouthpiece and start playing. As somebody who has gone down the path of leapipe options... Just leave something soldered in. Leadpipes are too tempting for me to play with. If you do have it pulled, find somebody to add a one of the Instrument Innovations bi-thread adapters. Very flexible to change everything.

FWIW, I found a pipe that works really well with each slide... and then forgot which one was which and made a conscious decision to not know or care. Wish they were just soldered in so I didn't have to think about it. I *think* I'm using a new stock 50B pipe in my Butler slide right now, but I'm not 100% sure and I am not about to take it out to find out as I need to stay off that carousel.

Cheers,
Andy

[brassmedic]

A Bach 50 leadpipe lists for $44 and an inner slide tube lists for $178 (Which is kind of crazy since Conn bass trombone tubes list for only $92).

If you see deposits inside your leadpipe, try putting a small cork in where the mouthpiece goes, turning the inner slide upside down, pouring some white vinegar down the slide tube, and letting it sit for 20 minutes or so. Then dump out the vinegar and clean it out with baking soda and water. That should remove anything that's on there. Or have a tech chem clean it.

[Mamaposaune]

Thanks to all for your input, I appreciate it.
I think I'm going to try the vinegar soak (which I already did with the bell section, minus the valve) and just keep the original leadpipe. And, despite the red-rot on the outers, the slide works well, and the inners have no visible wear at all, so I don't want to chance jinxing that - don't mess with what ain't broke.
Aside from the red-rot, all that mass of a regular-weight 50 outer is more than I want to deal with. I'm looking forward to the new Butler outer!

[brassmedic]

One is the lead pipe - I have cleaned out the slide several times now with a cleaning snake and detergent, nothing harsh. But I can see what I think is corrosion on the lead pipe when I look down the inner.

Even several rounds of detergent/snake alone may do very little to shift scale/calcium/mystery crud so, depending on what it looks like and how well you can see it, it might not (all) be corrosion.

I wouldn't worry quite so much about 'harsh' - you need a certain amount of chemical power to descale, and if that's enough to significantly accelerate the demise of something already badly corroded, well, you've only marginally hastened the inevitable.

If you want to DIY, plug the receiver, white vinegar in the inner, wait 15 mins, brush out with detergent and a VERY SOFT bottle/straw brush. A set of this sort is ideal (even better if you can find them outside of Bezos' Galactic Empire). May require a couple of rounds if there are serious chunks.

(You've got plenty of options, as you could always get a replacement inner from Bach or M/K if pulling the pipe went surprisingly wrong. And, as has been said, if it plays well don't worry about it.)

Oops. How did I miss this? Sorry for my redundant post.

[Mamaposaune]

Brad, I appreciate the redundancy, or better put, endorsement of the vinegar soak from you, speaking from experience and competency.