Butler Trombone Slide

[ShermanKNTO]

Anyone have a recent review of the new Butler Trombone carbon fiber hand slide?

[rnelson]

I was at the Shires factory open house a couple of months ago and asked Steve Shires about them. He told us that he and his team had play tested some of the prototypes that Butler had sent to them, and while they were very light and smooth to play, no one liked the way the carbon fiber resonated when compared to a metal slide. His verdict was that Shires are going to stick with metal for their hand slides.

[mousedigits]

I've heard good things about them. Very light and very durable. Haven't heard a whole lot of playing on one yet, but this guy seems to have a good opinion of them:

[Bonearzt]

I've played both small bore & bass slides, and while they sound and feel REALLY great, it's not for me.

It all depends on what you're looking for and how it will sound in YOUR playing situation!


Eric

[Mikebmiller]

I tested one out when I was getting my Lawler. He offers these as a $400 upgrade. The thing is so light you almost don't know it's there. But I liked the sound of the nickel slide better and since I was already spending over 2 grand, I stuck with that.

[ButlerTrombones]

I was at the Shires factory open house a couple of months ago and asked Steve Shires about them. He told us that he and his team had play tested some of the prototypes that Butler had sent to them, and while they were very light and smooth to play, no one liked the way the carbon fiber resonated when compared to a metal slide. His verdict was that Shires are going to stick with metal for their hand slides.

First of all, I love Shire's horns, They do great work! But, I have never met Steve or sent any prototypes for them to try. It might be possible that they tried one of my customers slides on their horns but I am not aware of it.

Dave Butler

[RJMason]

I own a Butler slide and it is amazing. I don’t use the horn exclusively, but for a lot of work I do playing live it is perfect. Fast, quick, and durable. Attacks really pop especially coming from a bronze Conn 6H slide. Really allows me to execute fast passages with ease. May not be for everyone or every situation, but I highly recommend it. Having used it back to back on recording sessions in big studios I can’t tell the difference between the original brass slide and carbon fiber. I especially think if you have a beautiful vintage bell with a broken slide this would be a great option for replacement!

[ShermanKNTO]

I received my Butler slide for my Bass Trombone this July, best thing I ever bought! You can throw away you water bottle, just use Yamaha slide oil or nothing at all! It was so quick with nothing on it that I left it dry for a month. Lighter than pBone slide, so light that others couldn't believe it. It fit with no problems as I have the same Bass Trombone model they modeled it after, Doug Yeo's Yamaha YBL-822G. They have also made a prototype bell and tuning slide for him!

[sf105]

Has anyone tried one on a DuoGravis?

[Driswood]

Check with Joe Jackson and Sam Woodhead. I know they both have butler outers. Joe for his Williams 6, and Sam for his .547 Shires.

[2bobone]

Dave Finlayson is using a Butler slide playing Bernstein's "Mippy II" on YouTube. He thinks it's remarkable ------.

[pfrancis]

Finlayson actually comments on the video:
“Alexander, the carbon fiber slide used in this video is made by Spurling. All inquiries should be directed to Patrick Spurling about purchasing a slide.”

Butler uses a carbon fiber right hand “cross tube” with his slides.

[disco]

How does it effect the balance of the horn? Are people pulling their counterweight when they change to the carbon slide? I read Doug Yeo's article about the conversion he did for his Yamaha, and his argument is very interesting. I worry some about taking advice from players of that caliber. I suspect that Mr. Yeo sounds fantastic on PVC pipe. I need help from my equipment. I'm betting the technology is getting to the point where they can lay the fiber up and make it sound like different kinds of metal. It's exciting that Butler is venturing out and expanding our world.

[RJMason]

When I acquired the slide for my Conn 6H I ended up removing the counterweight for about a year as I didn’t need it to balance out the way heavier standard factory slide. Eventually I put it back on, because I felt it gave me more stability and I play a lot of horns with F attachments so am used to the weight in that location.

[JLivi]

When I acquired the slide for my Conn 6H I ended up removing the counterweight for about a year as I didn’t need it to balance out the way heavier standard factory slide. Eventually I put it back on, because I felt it gave me more stability and I play a lot of horns with F attachments so am used to the weight in that location.

Ray, do you have just the carbon fiber outer slide or did you get a full CF slide? I’m so intrigued about these for my 3b.

[RJMason]

I got a complete slide for my Conn 6H bell a little over 18 months ago, since the original design was based around that instrument. It’s great. Dave’s been making a lot of outers for 3Bs and has the JJ model carbon fiber .508 horn now.

[MalecHeermans]

The only limiting factor I experienced when I tried Rafi Malkiel's Butler outer at a gig (with original bow from his Bach 16) was that it might be TOO LIGHT. He said he felt that way at first, but would never go back. I was astonished at the lightness and had a difficult time wrapping my head around playing a slide like that.

For those that think a carbon slide might limit brightness and loudness I can attest that Rafi is just as loud as usual. He played an entire set of already loud 40's and 50's latin big band music, with everyone mic'd, and took all of his solos off mic. Sounded GREAT.

[ShermanKNTO]

I recently had a rehearsal for an ensemble in which I play on a pBone. I picked it up, moved the slide and it felt weird. I was so used to the Butler CF Slide that the pBone slide actually felt heavy! (The pBone is 133 grams while my slide is 90 grams!) I was so surprised and OMG-ing for a bit but got back to rehearsing.
The Butler slide is definitely lighter in weight, but I do not have a problem with the balance of the instrument; The bell section does not drastically feel heavier.

[papaslides]

Can't say I have much of substance to add, but I just got my Butler slide today for my Kind 3B/F. I decided to go for it because a friend of mine rebuilt the back end of my horn (new tuning slides, inspired by old school Earl Williams horns) and although the customization fixed the centering and intonation issues of my 70's era King, it made it very front heavy... after 1 day of playing I can say that the carbon fiber slide has definitely solved that problem (though now it wants to roll away from my head rather than pitch forward, a new challenge, but much better than needing to support the horn with my right hand) and I haven't noticed any major change in my sound. I'll be interested to see how it fares when I get back to work, but on day 1 I have nothing but good things to say.

[elmsandr]

Just received my Butler 50B type slide today. Put in a pretty good session going back and forth between this and an old Bach slide that I have... I agree with Doug Yeo. “This is not a toy.” In a room by myself, this thing seems to have a very real and very natural response. With the Bach leadpipe, it is very Bach-y. That is, it feels to the lips very much like a good bach slide.

Now, about what I like in a slide... I like a heavier slide. I prefer my OLD Bach slides with the equal length grips. Currently my favorite bass slide is an M&W slide that has TIS made for an older Conn, but the point here is that it is a heavier weight handslide. I have a Bach LT slide that I do not like much at all, and having played a few Edwards lightweight brass slides with no oversleeves, I do not generally like these much at all. I have a hard time keeping myself centered and not splattering attacks all over the place. I don’t feel that on the carbon slide. It feels solid to my chops.

Of course, this could all change when I start to play with somebody else. We’ll find out later this week when I take it to an outdoor concert. We will see if I can project and hear myself in the group. In short, my initial first impression is that this should be fairly seamless transition. Can’t wait to see how it does.

Cheers,
Andy

[mwpfoot]

Kinda old thread, but I'm considering just an outer slide as an upgrade to my 891z.

I'm thinking about the Butler because my right shoulder and elbow are both prone to tightness - and subsequent soreness. My lifelong lingering issues were aggravated recently by simply throwing a baseball with my kid. Very frustrating. Beyond the fundamental weight reduction, I think maybe the lighter slide would be useful in resetting my whole approach to our one moving part. It's in my nature to tighten up and torque, which messes both me and the horn up. The reports that it feels "completely different" are intriguing.

My original Yamaha slide needs another service, but it is strangely rotting away underneath so I'm not excited about dropping money on it. I like this horn for the rock gig. I like the mouthpiece and leadpipe combo I've settled on, don't really want to open that world up again. The indestructible material is a bonus in these conditions.

Any new thoughts on these slides a year later?

Anyone out there loud gigging on mic with the Butler .500 or .508 outers?

Am I on the right path here? Or is there an alternative?

Thanks!

[elmsandr]

Still working through some issues with my bass slide, don't want to go too deep into that until I resolve them to my satisfaction. That said...

-I would recommend that you use Butler to make an outer slide. That part is great, if they fit it to the horn, fantastic.

-I would NOT recommend having them make the whole slide. On the bass slide, I have had issues with both the design and execution on the inner slide. We got the execution stuff pretty much cleaned up (though they buffed it into submission), but I am not sure why their design is the way that it is.

If your issue is weight and stiffness on your slide arm, this should be the ticket. Funny thing on this is that by gravity, it may not be the fastest and easiest moving slide that I have... but when you want to move it, it just goes there. Even when sticky, it just doesn't matter and provide any resistance. I haven't done any mic work with it, but I have had no volume issues and I only notice a little difference in feedback to me while playing.

Anyway, I still feel like I am in a shakedown period with this, so all of my opinions may change, but the motion of the tubes is FANTASTIC, the sound is at worst reasonably acceptable, and the overall experience working with Butler has been good. Takes a little longer than they estimate, but not excessively.

Cheers,
Andy

[Mamaposaune]

I found this old thread, and would love to hear up-dates from those who contributed, and newbies to the Butler slides.
I am seriously considering one for a Bach 50 that I recently acquired, and while it will never be my main horn (I also have a double, and I mainly play tenor anyhow) it plays well and makes for a nice "set" - a 36B, 42B, and the 50B.
The big issue is red-rot on the outer, and while it still moves pretty well and doesn't leak, I know it is on borrowed time. Also, I find it very tiring to move all that mass, especially since I am still having issues with my right arm after my dog gave it a big yank, pulling me face down back in December. (not all his fault, but still..)
I am leaning toward just getting the Butler outer since the inner is in great shape, and would send him the entire slide so he can fit them together.

[elmsandr]

I would not hesitate to recommend having them fit an outer to your slide. I kinda hate the design of their inners and handgrip area. This slide is now my daily driver, due to not being worried about hitting it on things, even if it isn’t the best sounding slide I own. To elaborate on that, it is a lightweight slide, so I have to pay attention to keep the sound in focus a little, a problem that I have had on all lightweight slides. The sound is a little more brittle and chippy if I am not paying attention to making my chops work... something they don’t want to do in this COVID layoff. That said, I’ve been using this on my frankenbass for a few months, then learned that I will play some more tenor this summer.. so I’m now using this on my 42. Working great so far, and again, I don’t worry about hitting it on things and am not worried about going outside for some summer gigs.

Cheers,
Andy

[EOlson9]

I sent in my bass slide to Dave in February of last year, not long before all h#ll broke loose and got it back last summer. Hadn't had any opportunities to really use it until this last weekend. Got asked to play in a big band,, and holy cow I'm really REALLY liking it. Shout out to Dave Butler! He does great work! It's so much lighter than before and so fast and smooth. Wayyy more smooth than any slide i've ever played before.