My visit with Roy Lawler

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:36 pm

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Hey all,

I just spent a day and a half with Roy Lawler at his beautiful home and shop in Shelbyville (Flat Creek) TN. His new horns are superb; an entirely different design than his early ones.

His design is influenced by the Martin Committee, in fact he showed me the 1947 Committee bell that he used as a pattern for his mandrel. Couple that with Roy's expert knowledge and you have one heck of a small bore (.500) trombone. The new horns are screw bell with a nice variety of options. Stems are available in 70/30 brass in .020 or .022, also 85/15 in .022 or .025.

The flares are available in sizes from 7 1/2 to 8 inches and they have a flat bead that is soldered, though he will do unsoldered too. No rim wire. You can get .020, .022, and .025 in 70/30 brass, 85/15 brass comes either .022 or .025. He will also do a 90/10 brass in .025.

The stem/bell sections he had available for my visit were a .020 70/30 with 70/30 neck pipe, 70/30 tuning slide bow and tuning slide inners. A .022 70/30 with nickel neck pipe and nickel tuning slide inners and a 70/30 tuning slide bow. And a .025 85/15 with a nickel neck pipe, 70/30 tuning slide inners and a 85/15 tuning slide bow.

The three hand slides he had were an all nickel, a nickel with brass bow, and an all brass. The all nickel slide provided you with very fast articulations and fast fluid slurs with a lot of pop. The all brass was warmer, creamier, and slightly veiled. The nickel with brass bow fell right in the middle. Lovely slides with excellent action.They have a very cool water key that is a direct copy of the Committee's from the 40's. Nice!

I brought several leadpipes, a Kanstul S, H6, W6, and a Bach 12. Roy had some 2 piece pipes from his old design horns and 1 one piece pipe with a large .420 venturi.

My everyday pipe in my Kanstul 1606 is the Kanstul H6 so that is what I used for most of the play testing. Though I did use a nice, albeit tight, 2 piece pipe that he had. He is going to re-design the lead pipes and do them as one piece pipes with a variety of venturi sizes ranging from .396, .405, .410, .415, and .420. They will all be approximately 8 inches in length.

Ok, the horns. Well it took Thursday night and all of Friday for me to arrive at the sound/feel I wanted. Every combination I played made me want to play and play and play. There is no better endorsement for a horn than that. Does it make you want to play? Yup. These did, except for one combination, and frankly I don't remember what that combination was. Before I forget, my target was to find a horn that was between my glorious 1935 Williams "L" and my Kanstul 1606 prototype. Both are GREAT horns but the Kanstul blows very big and I have to be in absolute top shape to get the most from it, especially when fatigued. The Williams "L" blows rather tight for a .522 though it has the most glorious sound known to mankind.

Preconceptions can often be misconceptions, and for me that held true. I thought the .020 70/30 stem was gonna be it. But it wasn't. It was nice with an 7 7/8" 85/15 flare but not quite what I wanted. On to the .022 stem with nickel neck and tuning slide inners. Ah, better but still not quite there. Keep in mind this took a long time because I was switching slides, flares, leadpipes, and going to my Kanstul and Williams for comparison. Finally on Saturday after many hours of playing we took a break, walked his beautiful property, something to drink and then back to the shop.

I had avoided the .025 85/15 stem, nickel neck, 85/15 tuning bow because of my preconception/misconception. So......that stem with a 7 1/2" 85/15 .022 flare, all nickel hand slide with H6 lead pipe and.........WOW! It was smack dab in the middle but leaning towards the Williams "L". What? Is this possible? Ok Ok. Lemme try the 7 7/8" flare in the same material. Nice, but didn't get up to speed as quickly as the 7 1/2". Ok, now the 7/7/8" 70/30 flare in .022. Ah, smack dab in the middle again but leaning more towards my Kanstul without the overly big blow required to keep the Kanstul lit up. This is amazing stuff my friends! Whew, I'm tired. I was on the road for nine hours coming home from Roy's before writing this.

Roy's horns are really something else. They are beautifully crafted and designed. I ordered a .025 85/15 stem with nickel neck pipe, 85/15 tuning slide bow, a 7 1/2" 85/15 .022 flare, another one just like it in 7 7/8" and a 7/7/8" 70/30. And an all nickel hand slide. It's amazing what just changing a flare does to the sound of the horn. Really really cool stuff. It will also come with a flat case that holds 2 flares. Okay, going to bed.

You can see his stuff at www.roylawlertrombones.com

Thanks

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ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:50 pm

"Preconceptions can often be misconceptions"

Nicely put.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:07 am

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A couple of things I forgot to mention. These horns are very character filled, easy to blow, easy to play, and easy to color.

The other thing is that Roy has decided to use a date code for the serial number. The day the instrument is invoiced will be the serial number. So if it was invoiced today, the serial number would be 111515. I like that idea because it will make it very easy for future owners to know the build date.

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ttf_LowrBrass · Post by **ttf_LowrBrass** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:36 am

Quote from: The Sheriff on Nov 15, 2015, 06:07AMThe other thing is that Roy has decided to use a date code for the serial number. The day the instrument is invoiced will be the serial number. So if it was invoiced today, the serial number would be 111515. I like that idea because it will make it very easy for future owners to know the build date.

I guess he never plans to sell more than one horn per day...?

Great writeup-- thanks for posting it.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:39 am

Quote from: LowrBrass on Nov 15, 2015, 06:36AMI guess he never plans to sell more than one horn per day...?

Great writeup-- thanks for posting it.

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Good one!

Thanks

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ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 7:03 am

Wouldn't be hard to add 111515 - 1 and 111515 - 2 or something to that effect to the cork barrel on the off chance something was sold on the same day.

ttf_MikeBMiller · Post by **ttf_MikeBMiller** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:20 am

Wow, those are beautiful instruments. That guy is only a 2 1/2 hour drive from me, but I never heard of him. And the price is no more than an off the shelf horn.

What is the lead time to get one of these?

ttf_boneagain · Post by **ttf_boneagain** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:28 am

Quote from: Matt K on Nov 15, 2015, 07:03AMWouldn't be hard to add 111515 - 1 and 111515 - 2 or something to that effect to the cork barrel on the off chance something was sold on the same day.

After 30 years in the business, Mr. Lawler is making these one at a time. Can't see how he'd need MORE than one number per day

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:13 pm

Quote from: MikeBMiller on Nov 15, 2015, 08:20AMWow, those are beautiful instruments. That guy is only a 2 1/2 hour drive from me, but I never heard of him. And the price is no more than an off the shelf horn.

What is the lead time to get one of these?
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Give him a call! I think lead time will be in the 6-8 week range. He makes trumpets too and they are his mainstay.

I had two of his earlier designs but over time ended up selling them. The 490 bore I had, which was the first one I got from him, I never should have sold. It was a sweet horn.

Roy's prices are very fair. It's just him doing the building and his wife does the books. Roy likes to keep it simple.

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ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:14 pm

Quote from: boneagain on Nov 15, 2015, 08:28AMAfter 30 years in the business, Mr. Lawler is making these one at a time. Can't see how he'd need MORE than one number per day

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You are correct, sir!

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ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:49 pm

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Oh yeah, more stuff. If you look at the pics of the tuning slide cross braces on the opening page of his website, you will notice the braces are soldered with a traditional "foot" attachment. He no longer does this. He now brazes the cross braces and it makes a significant difference.

He had me play one that was soldered and then play one that was brazed. The brazed one had a much quicker response and the sound was more immediate. It was very obvious.

The counter weight is built into the tuning slide sleeves. They are machined from brass bar stock, honed and fit. Good stuff! Balance is excellent too. I love the un-knurled nut that he uses for the connector of hand slide to bell section. You don't miss the knurling and it's easy to cinch or un-cinch, not to mention that it adds to the very clean look of these simple and elegant looking trombones.

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ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 3:19 pm

I like the serial number scheme, except there will be a Y2k+100 problem.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:17 pm

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And yet again.............More stuff.

Roy told me he will be coming out with a .508 hand slide in the very near future.

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ttf_boneagain · Post by **ttf_boneagain** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:04 pm

Quote from: SilverBone on Nov 15, 2015, 03:19PMI like the serial number scheme, except there will be a Y2k+100 problem.

You are SO right! He should be prepared... and use FIVE digit year numbers

That would save future musicologists SO much heartache

ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:52 pm

Good lord!

His prices are ridiculously low for hand-made custom instruments!

He must be doing this for the love of it, a true craftsman. Has he any interest in doing a large bore with an F attachment? I think the world would beat a 4 lane highway to his door. (maybe a slight exaggeration)

ttf_MikeBMiller · Post by **ttf_MikeBMiller** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:58 am

They don't have 4 lane highways in the Smoky mountains. Just gravel roads

ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:37 am

Fascinating stuff! What are your initial impressions about the horns' power and blend?

With such a unique horn I'm always wary about how it will fit into a section, but my Williams has no problems. I've been pursuing a Williams-ish horn from which I can get some additional volume. Could this be it? I've recently played 3bs and like .508 horns but find that they don't sound nearly as pleasant as my Williams, but I need something for rock bands...

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:45 am

Quote from: TromboneMonkey on Nov 16, 2015, 06:37AMFascinating stuff! What are your initial impressions about the horns' power and blend?

With such a unique horn I'm always wary about how it will fit into a section, but my Williams has no problems. I've been pursuing a Williams-ish horn from which I can get some additional volume. Could this be it? I've recently played 3bs and like .508 horns but find that they don't sound nearly as pleasant as my Williams, but I need something for rock bands...

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Depending on how a Lawler is set up you can get a huge palate of sounds/colors. The combination I am choosing has some of the qualities of my Williams "L" model which is nothing like the numbered models that Earl made in later years. I have no doubt that it will blend beautifully in the trombone sections that I play in.

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ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:13 am

Quote from: The Sheriff on Nov 14, 2015, 05:36PMThe Williams "L" blows rather tight for a .522 though it has the most glorious sound known to mankind.
I have one of those early "L's". TIS

T.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:08 am

What does the nickel gooseneck do to the feel and sound as compared to brass gooseneck?
I am a big fan of Martin Comittee trombones. I am going to talk to Mr. Lawler about a custom small bore trombone
in the near future. I love to support persons with unique vision. The removable flares creates a lot
of flexibility! Congratulations to Mr Lawler!

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:37 am

Quote from: louilou on Nov 24, 2015, 11:08AMWhat does the nickel gooseneck do to the feel and sound as compared to brass gooseneck?
I am a big fan of Martin Comittee trombones. I am going to talk to Mr. Lawler about a custom small bore trombone
in the near future. I love to support persons with unique vision. The removable flares creates a lot
of flexibility! Congratulations to Mr Lawler!

As far as the nickel gooseneck is concerned, it depends on the rest of the set up. But overall, I believe it tends to brighten the sound and speed up the response just a tad.

These are really nice trombones. The very best I've played in a long time.

ttf_cozzagiorgi · Post by **ttf_cozzagiorgi** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:46 am

Quote from: The Sheriff on Nov 25, 2015, 06:37AM
These are really nice trombones. The very best I've played in a long time.

Better than the Inderbinens?

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 7:58 am

Quote from: cozzagiorgi on Nov 25, 2015, 07:46AMBetter than the Inderbinens?

For me, yes. I loved my Inderbinen but it was very heavy and poorly balanced; very front heavy. The Inderbinen is very unique in every aspect, including sound. The sound is wonderful but not American. The Lawler has a very American sound and feel, and for me, that's what I like.

ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:39 am

What is the bell-to-slide relationship like?

I mean to ask: is the bell further out like a King/Conn, or further in like a Bach/Getzen? How long is the slide (as far as you could tell)?

Thanks!

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 10:10 am

Quote from: TromboneMonkey on Dec 11, 2015, 09:39AMWhat is the bell-to-slide relationship like?

I mean to ask: is the bell further out like a King/Conn, or further in like a Bach/Getzen? How long is the slide (as far as you could tell)?

Thanks!

The bell length is more like a King. The slide is as long as it needs to be.

Seriously, everything is very well balanced. I hope to have mine the first week of the new year.

ttf_salsabone · Post by **ttf_salsabone** » Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:43 pm

Sheriff,
I have a '47 pristine Committee. I love it's sound. I play mostly in the commercial setting and my Committee fits in well, but I grew up on Kings and my goto is a 3B anniversary Silversonic. When I am tired I may downsize to a wonderful '53 Olds Studio! I really would like to get one of Mr. Lawler's trombones due to my experience with some of his previous work. What combination(s) might you suggest for me. Thanks for you thoughts.
Kevin McAlley aka salsabone

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:58 am

Quote from: salsabone on Dec 11, 2015, 07:43PMSheriff,
I have a '47 pristine Committee. I love it's sound. I play mostly in the commercial setting and my Committee fits in well, but I grew up on Kings and my goto is a 3B anniversary Silversonic. When I am tired I may downsize to a wonderful '53 Olds Studio! I really would like to get one of Mr. Lawler's trombones due to my experience with some of his previous work. What combination(s) might you suggest for me. Thanks for you thoughts.
Kevin McAlley aka salsabone

Hi Salsabone,

It would be difficult for me not to recommend the combination I chose. I can not imagine any good player not liking the set-up I chose, but of course, we are all different. It took me a day and a half of playing to arrive at my set-up. I've played and owned a lot of great small bores in my life and this new Lawler is right up there with the very best of the lot.

If you decide to order one you can ask him for my set-up. Which is: 85/15 .025 bell stem, nickel neck pipe, brass tuning slide inners with an 85/15 tuning slide bow. If you go for the two flare deal that he offers, I'd choose an 85/15 .022 @ 7 1/2" and a 70/30 .022 @ 7 3/4" both with soldered rim. My hand slide is all nickel. He is also sending me a tuning slide with a 70/30 bow for comparison.

I hope you get one. Roy is every bit as good as the best trombone designers/makers in modern history.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Thu Jan 07, 2016 7:24 pm

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Hey all.

The Lawler Trombone arrived today. Roy is a genius. It's better than I remembered. And remember, this is not the horn that I played during my visit, so that speaks to his build consistency.

More later. I start a 6 week run of HAIRSPRAY on the 18th so I'll be able to put it through its paces then.

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ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:34 pm

Pics????

ttf_lmalewic · Post by **ttf_lmalewic** » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:52 pm

I'll hopefully get a chance to try the horn soon. Scott lives pretty close to me.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:52 pm

Quote from: TromboneMonkey on Jan 07, 2016, 08:34PMPics????

I don't do pics. It looks just like the ones on his website.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:58 pm

Quote from: lmalewic on Jan 07, 2016, 08:52PMI'll hopefully get a chance to try the horn soon. Scott lives pretty close to me.

Luke, you lean towards dark and somewhat veiled sounding horns. This is not that. You could achieve dark and veiled with a Lawler by choosing different materials than I did. But......We'll work out a time for you to swing by and give it a blow. I think this new Lawler will surprise you; in a good way.

ttf_BMadsen · Post by **ttf_BMadsen** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:20 am

I have to admit a certain curiosity about these horns. Does anyone here know if anyone in the NY/NJ area has one that they'd be willing to let me try out a bit?

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:43 am

Quote from: BMadsen on Jan 08, 2016, 05:20AMI have to admit a certain curiosity about these horns. Does anyone here know if anyone in the NY/NJ area has one that they'd be willing to let me try out a bit?

Give Roy a call and ask him if he has sold one to anyone in the NYC/NJ area.

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:29 am

you want pics -------
buy a playboy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: TromboneMonkey on Jan 07, 2016, 08:34PMPics????

ttf_lmalewic · Post by **ttf_lmalewic** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:31 am

A buddy of mine, Ray Mason ordered one from Roy. He lives in the area. Brooklyn maybe? You can find him on Facebook. He doesn't have the horn yet but he probably will by next month.

ttf_BMadsen · Post by **ttf_BMadsen** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:31 am

I know Ray - we've played together before. Been awhile. I'll reach out to him.

Thanks!

ttf_sabutin · Post by **ttf_sabutin** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 11:31 am

Quote from: BMadsen on Jan 08, 2016, 08:31AMI know Ray - we've played together before. Been awhile. I'll reach out to him.

Thanks!

Count me in, please. He's in Brooklyn? You live in New Jersey?? I'll drive.

S.

ttf_BMadsen · Post by **ttf_BMadsen** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:26 pm

Sam, I'll be in touch with you shortly - still chattin' with Ray about it.

ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 1:36 pm

Share your impressions! I would be excited to cross-reference them.

ttf_Malec Heermans · Post by **ttf_Malec Heermans** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 2:35 pm

Quote from: BMadsen on Jan 08, 2016, 05:20AMI have to admit a certain curiosity about these horns. Does anyone here know if anyone in the NY/NJ area has one that they'd be willing to let me try out a bit?

I was going to say 'road trip', but 14 hours is perhaps more of a road trip than I'm willing to share with you fine gentlemen.

I'm in Boone fairly often though and that makes the drive only six hours. I probably will do it.

What's not to love? American made. Super sleek design. I love the built in balance weight - maybe Scott Bentall had some input there inspired by his Piccola? AND the curvy grip with no knurling on the connector. And a SCREW BELL. I have never had the pleasure of traveling with a screw bell trombone (and appropriately slim case), but it really could only get better than it is now, no?

Plus a practical endorsement from The Sheriff.

I'm sort of secretly happy that the Lawler trombone has survived. I doubt it's easy out there for small manufacturers.

Oh, and did I mention the price?!!!

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:23 pm

Quote from: Malec Heermans on Jan 08, 2016, 02:35PM

What's not to love? American made. Super sleek design. I love the built in balance weight - maybe Scott Bentall had some input there inspired by his Piccola?

Plus a practical endorsement from The Sheriff.

I'm sort of secretly happy that the Lawler trombone has survived. I doubt it's easy out there for small manufacturers.

Oh, and did I mention the price?!!!

I had no input regarding the balance weight. That was all Roy.

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ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:26 pm

Quote from: BMadsen on Jan 08, 2016, 01:26PMSam, I'll be in touch with you shortly - still chattin' with Ray about it.

Did you ask Ray what set-up he ordered? I'd like to know. I'd ask Roy, but I'd rather not bother him with something like that. His time is precious and I try not to bug him.

Thanks

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ttf_lmalewic · Post by **ttf_lmalewic** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 5:56 pm

He let me know but I cannot remember what it is at the moment. I let him know to chime in here so hopefully he will put something up soon.

ttf_RJMason · Post by **ttf_RJMason** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:08 pm

Hey y'all:

I ordered:

.025 Yellow Brass Stem w yellow brass tuning slide (70/30 zinc/copp)
.025 8 inch yellow brass flare
.025 8 inch bronze flare
Nickel neck pipe
Yellow brass slide .500 w nickel crook

I have been playing on a .525 Lawler Big Boy I got from DJ a few months ago and I love the instrument. That horn is 8.5 inch yellow bell .525 nickel silver slide w brass crook. Despite other claims about his older horns this one is great, slide is incredible...it just needed a counterweight to be balanced but I found one that fits.

Roy is amazing. Will let you know when it arrives.

-Ray

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:49 pm

Quote from: RJMason on Jan 08, 2016, 06:08PMHey y'all:

I ordered:

.025 Yellow Brass Stem w yellow brass tuning slide (70/30 zinc/copp)
.025 8 inch yellow brass flare
.025 8 inch bronze flare
Nickel neck pipe
Yellow brass slide .500 w nickel crook

I have been playing on a .525 Lawler Big Boy I got from DJ a few months ago and I love the instrument. That horn is 8.5 inch yellow bell .525 nickel silver slide w brass crook. Despite other claims about his older horns this one is great, slide is incredible...it just needed a counterweight to be balanced but I found one that fits.

Roy is amazing. Will let you know when it arrives.

-Ray

Nice! When I played the bronze flare I found it to be extremely even from top to bottom; very legit like.

Your bell section is gonna be nice and hefty being all .025 with 8" flares. Attaboy!

ttf_lmalewic · Post by **ttf_lmalewic** » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:17 pm

Once Scott finishes his show at the end of February I should be able to check out the Lawler and post some impressions on here. Given his seal of approval though I'm sure the horn is killer.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:48 pm

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Lawler leadpipes.

Roy sent me three leadpipes. All are 7 5/16" in length, press-fit, and are stamped #5 (.405 venturi), #10 (.410 venturi), and #15 (.415 venturi). The pipes are all one piece, though his standard pipes are two piece, like a King trombone has. I typically prefer a one piece pipe so that is what I had him make for me. They fit perfectly, no tape required.

It should be easy for any player to zero in on the pipe they like best. For me, it is the #10. At some point I may ask Roy to send me a two piece #10 for comparison.

More later........

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ttf_DaveAshley · Post by **ttf_DaveAshley** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:23 pm

So how's the horn working out for you?

I saw that Roy will start offering .508 slides this month.

I may have to visit Roy when I'm home next. Traveling as much as I do, the screw bell is very appealing.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:50 pm

Quote from: DaveAshley on Feb 12, 2016, 04:23PMSo how's the horn working out for you?

I saw that Roy will start offering .508 slides this month.

I may have to visit Roy when I'm home next. Traveling as much as I do, the screw bell is very appealing.

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It's top notch in every way. Love it.

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