My visit with Roy Lawler

ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Sat Feb 13, 2016 2:22 pm

Sticking with Roy's pipe or using one of your own?

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sun Feb 14, 2016 7:20 am

Quote from: TromboneMonkey on Feb 13, 2016, 02:22PMSticking with Roy's pipe or using one of your own?

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I settled on Roy's #10 pipe, .410 venturi. All of his pipes provided me with a quicker response than any of the Kanstul pipes that I have. In fact, I found Roy's #5 pipe, .405 venturi, to be a great match with my Kanstul.

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ttf_RJMason · Post by **ttf_RJMason** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 12:46 pm

Wanted to update the forum on the Lawler Trombone:

My horn arrives next week!

A couple of things:

Roy is currently working on finalizing a soft gig bag with backpack straps that holds the horn and two bell flares (stacked in the case).

He also is modifying my hard shell case to have D-Rings like the Eastman fiberglass cases so you can attach backpack straps (BAM, etc.) and wear the hard case. His hard case uses a shell from SKB, so the weight, feel, and dimensions will be similar to a rectangular saxophone or viola case. Heavier than a gig bag, but very protective and able to fit in overhead!

The gig bag option is going to be a game changer!

Lastly, Roy just sent a horn to Dillon Music this week, it should arrive today or tomorrow. So for anyone that wants to try out a Lawler in the NYC Metro Area, you can go do that next week!

I'm excited!!!

-Ray

ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:31 pm

Quote from: RJMason on Mar 03, 2016, 12:46PMWanted to update the forum on the Lawler Trombone:

My horn arrives next week!

A couple of things:

Roy is currently working on finalizing a soft gig bag with backpack straps that holds the horn and two bell flares (stacked in the case).

He also is modifying my hard shell case to have D-Rings like the Eastman fiberglass cases so you can attach backpack straps (BAM, etc.) and wear the hard case. His hard case uses a shell from SKB, so the weight, feel, and dimensions will be similar to a rectangular saxophone or viola case. Heavier than a gig bag, but very protective and able to fit in overhead!

The gig bag option is going to be a game changer!

Lastly, Roy just sent a horn to Dillon Music this week, it should arrive today or tomorrow. So for anyone that wants to try out a Lawler in the NYC Metro Area, you can go do that next week!

I'm excited!!!

-Ray

Any Lawlers going to be at ATW?

ttf_DaveAshley · Post by **ttf_DaveAshley** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:23 am

Quote from: RJMason on Mar 03, 2016, 12:46PMWanted to update the forum on the Lawler Trombone:

My horn arrives next week!
I'm excited!!!

-Ray

Any updates you'd like to share with us?

I'm going to visit Roy in May to see if this is the direction I want to go. The screw bell idea is particularly attractive. I hate flying with my horn, and I might be doing even more of it in the near future.

ttf_BMadsen · Post by **ttf_BMadsen** » Tue Mar 22, 2016 5:33 am

I tried the model they had at Dillons. If memory serves (and it might not - the visit was before a long and intense run of Ragtime on tuba, so all I seem to remember is playing 2 beat bass lines

), the setup was as follows:

Red Brass Stem
Yellow Brass Flare .022 Thickness
Red Brass Flare 0.025 Thickness
Yellow Brass outer slide - .500 bore (he's now doing a .508 bore as well, but they didn't have it)

I found I did not like the Red Brass flare at all. While it was warm, it sounded muffled. Or dampened. It would work solo for someone who liked the particular tone, but I could not imagine it blending AT ALL with a section (at least, not with all of the sections I work with).

However, the Yellow Brass flare was awesome! The horn plays magnificently. Very even response throughout to my playing, and all of the small design elements he talks are the icing on an amazing cake. Obviously, the curved grip is great, but on top of that, the flush bell to slide coupling was immensely comfortable. The horn was perfectly balanced for my grip, and the water key is, at least for me, the perfect length.

I've been planning an upgrade for awhile, and will be pulling the trigger in 2017, and now Lawler is on my short list for a small bore horn. I seriously thought I was going to start going all Shires, but trying that horn has really opened my eyes and made me reconsider. Plus, with that price, I could fly round trip and spend a day there, and still come in hundreds better than a Shires while still getting to work with Lawler to customize it (assuming he'd be ok with that).

Definitely worth a look!

ttf_RJMason · Post by **ttf_RJMason** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:13 pm

PREFACE: I have been on this Screw Bell Trombone Quest for over a year now and I think I found the perfect travel/tour/everyday??? horn for me!

I will add to Brad's comments:

I just got my Lawler today and been having a blast playing it.

The bell section is heavier than a typical King 3B flare, but it feels well balanced and comfortable nevertheless. The curved grip feels great. The slide was feeling amazing right out of the box. It is lightweight, but not TOO lightweight. Mine is an all yellow brass slide.

The one downside is I wanted a nickel silver slide crook ala Conn and Roy forgot to make the slide this way...he said it is something he will fix for free if I end up not liking the full yellow slide.

Right now I am really into the 8inch .025 Bronze bell flare on the yellow brass stem. It has a great character to it. It plays with a "vintage quality" that I feel from really old Bachs (one of the reasons I got a nickel silver neckpipe), 60s Conns, even Williams 6 with the 8inch flare. I'm getting a lot of colors out of it. I love the broad sound of the 8 inch bell flare. It still feels punchy but has a great feel too it...and this horn plays LOUD, without breaking up.

I was worried about the .500 slide, because I mainly play .525, but the blow is right. I'm not overblowing on it. The horn doesn't feel too fragile like some newer horns I've played. It is a beautiful thing.

The water key and slide receiver are like the old Martin Committees from the 40s? They look great and work well. No leaks like the Saturn Water Key.

The Yellow Bell sounds MONSTROUS. Having an entire yellow brass horn (except the nickel silver neckpipe) allows me to literally cut through any amplified instrument and retain some warmth.

It lacks the complexity I like to hear on solo stuff, but still rings and sounds really good. IDEAL for New Orleans Brass Band, Salsa Band, Pop Gigs....all three are jobs I do A LOT. I'm still breaking it in so we will see...

That being said...its only been a few hours so I will write another report in a week or so.

I'm testing out the three leadpipes...I like the "10". "5" is too stuffy for me, like an old king leadpipe (some guys like that resistance)...the "15" sounds nice but high register felt a little weird...I will continue to try them all out.

THE CASE IS GREAT! Bells on bottom, slide on the top with a protector. It's a little bit heavy, but as mentioned before, Roy is working on a gig bag.
Its like a mini casio keyboard road case!! I'm flying to LA on Monday and will appreciate having this case in the airport.

The whole thing cost me $2225...his site says $2500 but he took off the price of the lacquer because I wanted it all raw brass.

*SIDE NOTE*

Based on my experience trying the Elliot Mason Model BAC Trombones at NAMM, I wholeheartedly recommend anyone interested in that horn, try a Lawler.

Weight wise they are similar in concept (Heavier than usual straight bell section, lightweight slide) But the Lawler is way more balanced....EM Model bell has a Bass Trombone weight to it and the slides feel like so light that they are like glass (very weird IMO).

You can get that sound with a yellow/gold brass stem and a Bronze 8inch bell from Lawler.

And you get a sick hard case...and it has a clean vintage look to it (unless you want the flashy look, live your life!)...AND its HALF the price of an EM BAC Model...

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:03 pm

ttf_RJMason · Post by **ttf_RJMason** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:27 pm

I just want to make one last post since I've had the horn a few weeks.

It is still the best small bore horn I've played in a long time.

The horn can take what I give it and sound great. It is so comfortable to hold and play for hours.

While on my old BAC horn I had to pull the tuning slide almost all the way out...the Lawler is so in tune without much adjustment.

I've used it in pop gigs, on TV, and commercial recordings with the yellow bell. Sounds great in all situations.

I've used the Bronze bell on some of my own bands stuff, solo small group stuff, and Easter church gigs (instead of my 36B!) and it fit right in and had a warm, even "legit" sound.

I played with the yellow brass bell in a big band rehearsal (w Andrae and Jack Jeffers of the Ellington Orchestra) and it blended right in with their horns.

Just to clarify, Roy didn't forget to give me a nickel crook. He told me he thought the all yellow slide (no nickel crook) would be a better blow than messing with different materials on the slide...I haven't tried it another way, but I'm very happy with the yellow slide and the nickel neckpipe. Articulations are clear but I get a warm sound. I think the all yellow set up with a nickel slide would be a little too crisp for me.

Also, my bell stem is a .025 gauge which is the heaviest he makes. His .022 and lighter stems,
Coupled with a .022 bell flare will feel more like a standard small bore in weight. Personally, I prefer the heaviest because I need a horn that can take a lottt of energy.

The hard case is next level. I've been on about 12 flights since I've gotten the horn. The case fits so easily into any overhead. In fact, on one flight I put it IN FRONT of two smaller rolling suitcases and it fit snug with the bin closed. Insane. Flight attendants do not even know if I have something on my back. It's lighter than my Eastman case with straps. It is the perfect travel trombone...but also knocks many small bore custom Horns out of the water.

The gig bag looks ridiculously small...like those soft cases camera guys use to transport their tripods in.

I have been using the #15 leadpipe the most open one for a lot of the past few gigs but I really like the #10 on my bronze bell.

Thats my final update...I'm planning to send my Big Boy to him to "modernize" it.

HornQuest ended...for now!

ttf_DaveAshley · Post by **ttf_DaveAshley** » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:29 am

I have an appointment to visit the shop in about 6 weeks. Can't wait!

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Tue Apr 12, 2016 5:22 am

Quote from: RJMason on Apr 11, 2016, 11:27PMI just want to make one last post since I've had the horn a few weeks.

It is still the best small bore horn I've played in a long time.

The horn can take what I give it and sound great. It is so comfortable to hold and play for hours.

While on my old BAC horn I had to pull the tuning slide almost all the way out...the Lawler is so in tune without much adjustment.

I've used it in pop gigs, on TV, and commercial recordings with the yellow bell. Sounds great in all situations.

I've used the Bronze bell on some of my own bands stuff, solo small group stuff, and Easter church gigs (instead of my 36B!) and it fit right in and had a warm, even "legit" sound.

I played with the yellow brass bell in a big band rehearsal (w Andrae and Jack Jeffers of the Ellington Orchestra) and it blended right in with their horns.

Just to clarify, Roy didn't forget to give me a nickel crook. He told me he thought the all yellow slide (no nickel crook) would be a better blow than messing with different materials on the slide...I haven't tried it another way, but I'm very happy with the yellow slide and the nickel neckpipe. Articulations are clear but I get a warm sound. I think the all yellow set up with a nickel slide would be a little too crisp for me.

Also, my bell stem is a .025 gauge which is the heaviest he makes. His .022 and lighter stems,
Coupled with a .022 bell flare will feel more like a standard small bore in weight. Personally, I prefer the heaviest because I need a horn that can take a lottt of energy.

The hard case is next level. I've been on about 12 flights since I've gotten the horn. The case fits so easily into any overhead. In fact, on one flight I put it IN FRONT of two smaller rolling suitcases and it fit snug with the bin closed. Insane. Flight attendants do not even know if I have something on my back. It's lighter than my Eastman case with straps. It is the perfect travel trombone...but also knocks many small bore custom Horns out of the water.

The gig bag looks ridiculously small...like those soft cases camera guys use to transport their tripods in.

I have been using the #15 leadpipe the most open one for a lot of the past few gigs but I really like the #10 on my bronze bell.

Thats my final update...I'm planning to send my Big Boy to him to "modernize" it.

HornQuest ended...for now!

Thanks for the update. Good stuff.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:31 pm

So do these cases have backpack straps, similar to the Eastman case? These horns are really interesting and it's nice to hear about one craftsman doing what he loves rather than all of the drama with Conn-Selmer.

ttf_Duffle · Post by **ttf_Duffle** » Wed Apr 13, 2016 2:31 am

Does he do clear ( ie gloss) lacquer?.........

ttf_RJMason · Post by **ttf_RJMason** » Wed Apr 13, 2016 9:46 am

The hard case doesn't come with backpack straps. I use Bam Cello Case Straps. Roy will install three little D-Rings similar to where they lie on an Eastman case (he has an Eastman case at his shop for reference). Then select your after market strap. I know the Eastman and Bam clamps and straps will work great.

Horns are raw brass with a brush finish, then he does a "brushed lacquer" which looks awesome on the inside bell of my old .525 Big Boy. I just have my new horn in raw brass. I'm sure he can do a clear shiny lacquer, that is what my .525 lawler has on the bell flare, no brush finish.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:23 pm

Quote from: Duffle on Apr 13, 2016, 02:31AMDoes he do clear ( ie gloss) lacquer?.........

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He'll finish the horn any way you like.

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ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Sun May 15, 2016 7:37 am

WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote from: The Sheriff on Apr 12, 2016, 05:22AMThanks for the update. Good stuff.

ttf_Sid · Post by **ttf_Sid** » Sun May 15, 2016 10:30 am

I also recently had a chance to visit Roy and his shop, arriving there Friday afternoon and spending a few hours there playing his horns. My purpose for going there was to attempt to find either a worthy second small bore horn or something that could potentially compete with playing time from my 3BSS. I love my Silversonic and what I am able to do on it (thanks to DJ for helping me get it back - story for another day), but I would love to find a horn that can do all of that but make it a little bit easier on me, from the terms of blow (quicker response), efficiency (less work on me), and weight (did stress damage to my wrists in college from playing a heavy horn).

With all that in mind, Roy started me out with .20 yellow brass stem with a .20 yellow flare and a .500 lightweight nickel slide with brass crook and we worked up in weight from there. No matter what I tried or what we switched out, I can say that these are some of the easiest playing horns I have ever encountered. I won't go over every iteration of what I played but I'll list out a few things that I learned that worked out well for me:

[li]The grip is super comfortable and make holding and playing the horn easy. Was actually hard to put his horn down.[/li][li]I found the overall blow to be more even and efficient when I played a full yellow brass stem section as opposed to one with a nickel gooseneck.[/li][li]The .20 stem was light (not too light) and easy to maneuver when paired with a .20 flare. I liked the blow even more when I used a .22 flare.[/li][li]I think I tried only one combination of all red brass and didn't care for the blow at all. Too enough front to the sound if I remember correctly.[/li][li]Being a primarily .508 player, I thought I would gravitate easily to his .508 slide but that was not the case. I much preferred his .500 slide, likely because of the efficiency of the blow and how much less I had to work.[/li][li]For those who prefer a lightweight gig bag, Roy's bags are awesome. It's almost like carrying your horn in a quiver.[/li]

At the end of the afternoon and into the evening, here is what I ended up with:

[li]All yellow brass .020 stem, tuning slide and gooseneck[/li][li]7 3/4 inches .022 Red brass flare that had a thinner rim on it. Loved this flare and was one that Scott Bentall was testing out. Felt like I could shape the sound however I wanted to with it.[/li][li]He didn't have one there but I ordered an 8 inch .025 bronze flare for something completely different. Would be nice to have something for legit (brass quintet or church) gigs. Will share my thoughts on that when I have time to play on it.[/li][li].500 lightweight nickel slide with brass crook[/li][li]Roy thought I played the best on his 405 lead pipe but is going to send me at least a 405, and 410 and a second one (either or) that is going to be in nickel. More on that when I get them.[/li][li]I loved the gig bag but I had a bad experience with one many years ago in college, so I went with the hard case. I don't fly very often with a horn but the hard case will make it very easy to carry your horn on and fit in an overhead bin.[/li]

I highly encourage anyone looking for a new horn to consider Roy's horns. Looking forward to receiving mine in a few months.

ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Sun May 15, 2016 11:19 am

So far it seems that the nickel slide tubes are more popular. Interesting. I almost always prefer brass.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sun May 15, 2016 3:50 pm

Quote from: Sid on May 15, 2016, 10:30AMI also recently had a chance to visit Roy and his shop, arriving there Friday afternoon and spending a few hours there playing his horns. My purpose for going there was to attempt to find either a worthy second small bore horn or something that could potentially compete with playing time from my 3BSS. I love my Silversonic and what I am able to do on it (thanks to DJ for helping me get it back - story for another day), but I would love to find a horn that can do all of that but make it a little bit easier on me, from the terms of blow (quicker response), efficiency (less work on me), and weight (did stress damage to my wrists in college from playing a heavy horn).

With all that in mind, Roy started me out with .20 yellow brass stem with a .20 yellow flare and a .500 lightweight nickel slide with brass crook and we worked up in weight from there. No matter what I tried or what we switched out, I can say that these are some of the easiest playing horns I have ever encountered. I won't go over every iteration of what I played but I'll list out a few things that I learned that worked out well for me:

[li]The grip is super comfortable and make holding and playing the horn easy. Was actually hard to put his horn down.[/li][li]I found the overall blow to be more even and efficient when I played a full yellow brass stem section as opposed to one with a nickel gooseneck.[/li][li]The .20 stem was light (not too light) and easy to maneuver when paired with a .20 flare. I liked the blow even more when I used a .22 flare.[/li][li]I think I tried only one combination of all red brass and didn't care for the blow at all. Too enough front to the sound if I remember correctly.[/li][li]Being a primarily .508 player, I thought I would gravitate easily to his .508 slide but that was not the case. I much preferred his .500 slide, likely because of the efficiency of the blow and how much less I had to work.[/li][li]For those who prefer a lightweight gig bag, Roy's bags are awesome. It's almost like carrying your horn in a quiver.[/li]

At the end of the afternoon and into the evening, here is what I ended up with:

[li]All yellow brass .020 stem, tuning slide and gooseneck[/li][li]7 3/4 inches .022 Red brass flare that had a thinner rim on it. Loved this flare and was one that Scott Bentall was testing out. Felt like I could shape the sound however I wanted to with it.[/li][li]He didn't have one there but I ordered an 8 inch .025 bronze flare for something completely different. Would be nice to have something for legit (brass quintet or church) gigs. Will share my thoughts on that when I have time to play on it.[/li][li].500 lightweight nickel slide with brass crook[/li][li]Roy thought I played the best on his 405 lead pipe but is going to send me at least a 405, and 410 and a second one (either or) that is going to be in nickel. More on that when I get them.[/li][li]I loved the gig bag but I had a bad experience with one many years ago in college, so I went with the hard case. I don't fly very often with a horn but the hard case will make it very easy to carry your horn on and fit in an overhead bin.[/li]

I highly encourage anyone looking for a new horn to consider Roy's horns. Looking forward to receiving mine in a few months.

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Nice report and congratulations on ordering one. Roy is the man! That red brass flare with the thinner rim is a real beauty.

Scott

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ttf_MikeBMiller · Post by **ttf_MikeBMiller** » Sun May 15, 2016 4:52 pm

A guy in my brass quintet plays a Lawler trumpet. He loves it.

ttf_Joe Stanko · Post by **ttf_Joe Stanko** » Sun May 15, 2016 7:49 pm

Have their been any thoughts about producing bass trombone bells?

Joe Stanko

ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Sun May 15, 2016 8:06 pm

hey joe
where you goin with that bone in your hand ???????
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bass bone bells --another world ---mandrels
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ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Mon May 16, 2016 7:31 am

Quote from: Joe Stanko on May 15, 2016, 07:49PMHave their been any thoughts about producing bass trombone bells?

Joe Stanko

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There has been no talk about producing a bass bone bell or a complete bass trombone. As far as I know, Roy does not want to build a horn larger than .525.

Scott

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ttf_Sid · Post by **ttf_Sid** » Mon May 16, 2016 9:34 am

Quote from: The Sheriff on May 16, 2016, 07:31AMThere has been no talk about producing a bass bone bell or a complete bass trombone. As far as I know, Roy does not want to build a horn larger than .525.

The only thing Roy mentioned to me was that when he was fully setup to make trombones full time, he would like to be able to offer the option to cut and convert bell sections to removable flares.

ttf_ntap · Post by **ttf_ntap** » Mon May 16, 2016 11:07 am

Thanks for posting your account, Sid! Great writeup.

At the end, you write: "I look forward to seeing mine in a few months" - does that mean you would get a different horn than the one you tried at his shop? (With the same components?)

ttf_Sid · Post by **ttf_Sid** » Mon May 16, 2016 12:04 pm

Quote from: ntap on May 16, 2016, 11:07AMAt the end, you write: "I look forward to seeing mine in a few months" - does that mean you would get a different horn than the one you tried at his shop? (With the same components?)

That is correct. Roy doesn't have a huge inventory of components in his shop but enough to try more or less everything that he offers. He also made a point to tell me that buying anything right there in his shop would incur a 9% sales tax addition to the order. Digging through this post, I think Scott commented on this exactly:

Quote from: The Sheriff on Jan 07, 2016, 07:24PM-----------
Hey all.

The Lawler Trombone arrived today. Roy is a genius. It's better than I remembered. And remember, this is not the horn that I played during my visit, so that speaks to his build consistency.

More later. I start a 6 week run of HAIRSPRAY on the 18th so I'll be able to put it through its paces then.
========

I'm honestly not worried at all with the build consistency and will be very happy come the end of July when it arrives.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Sun May 22, 2016 11:57 am

Quote from: Sid on May 16, 2016, 12:04PMThat is correct. Roy doesn't have a huge inventory of components in his shop but enough to try more or less everything that he offers. He also made a point to tell me that buying anything right there in his shop would incur a 9% sales tax addition to the order. Digging through this post, I think Scott commented on this exactly:

I'm honestly not worried at all with the build consistency and will be very happy come the end of July when it arrives.

Right, he is super consistent. I am sure you will be very satisfied.

ttf_MikeBMiller · Post by **ttf_MikeBMiller** » Sun May 22, 2016 5:11 pm

Quote from: The Sheriff on May 16, 2016, 07:31AM-----

There has been no talk about producing a bass bone bell or a complete bass trombone. As far as I know, Roy does not want to build a horn larger than .525.

Scott

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Any idea if a 525 w/F might be a future option?

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Mon May 23, 2016 6:43 am

Quote from: MikeBMiller on May 22, 2016, 05:11PMAny idea if a 525 w/F might be a future option?

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Yes!

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ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Mon May 23, 2016 6:50 am

Do you know what valve he is thinking of using?

ttf_DaveAshley · Post by **ttf_DaveAshley** » Mon May 23, 2016 9:16 pm

I just pulled in the driveway from a long day of 280 miles each way and 4 hours at Roy's shop.

Roy has really got something going on down there in rural Tennessee!

I pulled in at about 1pm local time, and Roy greeted me outside and welcomed me into the shop. We had a little chat to get acquainted, and got to work.

After a long afternoon of testing, I ended up settling on the all-yellow .25 stem (finished just a few days ago) with the .25 8" bronze flare. I started with a .22 yellow stem with nickel neck pipe and spent quite a bit of time on the .25 red stem with the nickel neckpipe,. Ultimately I wanted something close to the sound of my Earl Williams 6 but maybe a bit "gutsier" punch to it, and the combo I chose did that for me.

The better part of the afternoon of testing was spent on the nickel .500 slide with the brass crook, but once I made the switch to the bell section I ultimately chose, he suggested I try the all-nickel slide just for kicks. Everything felt easier and more fluid, but one thing that stuck out to me is that the one with the brass crook had a better....how-you-say... "wave" to the slide vibrato. I went back and forth and back and forth, even considering a nickel neckpipe to split the difference, but ultimately that all-nickel slide won out in the end. I didn't try the .508 slide. He had just one in the shop, and I think four .500's, one in all brass. I liked it too, but there was something about the nickel!

After all of that, I wanted to pick a 2nd slightly smaller flare with noticeably different sound. The one that stood out was the red .22 7 3/4" rim that's been mentioned before. That thing is something else! I may have to splurge on the 7 1/2 yellow .22 at some point as well...

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but he's going to stop making trumpets by the end of the year to focus solely on building trombones. I did ask him if he plans to build anything larger, and it didn't seem that he'll be doing that anytime soon. He did mention that he'd consider doing .491 and/or a .481/.491 (like a dual bore 2B) somewhere down the road.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Tue May 24, 2016 5:52 am

Quote from: DaveAshley on May 23, 2016, 09:16PMI just pulled in the driveway from a long day of 280 miles each way and 4 hours at Roy's shop.

Roy has really got something going on down there in rural Tennessee!

I pulled in at about 1pm local time, and Roy greeted me outside and welcomed me into the shop. We had a little chat to get acquainted, and got to work.

After a long afternoon of testing, I ended up settling on the all-yellow .25 stem (finished just a few days ago) with the .25 8" bronze flare. I started with a .22 yellow stem with nickel neck pipe and spent quite a bit of time on the .25 red stem with the nickel neckpipe,. Ultimately I wanted something close to the sound of my Earl Williams 6 but maybe a bit "gutsier" punch to it, and the combo I chose did that for me.

The better part of the afternoon of testing was spent on the nickel .500 slide with the brass crook, but once I made the switch to the bell section I ultimately chose, he suggested I try the all-nickel slide just for kicks. Everything felt easier and more fluid, but one thing that stuck out to me is that the one with the brass crook had a better....how-you-say... "wave" to the slide vibrato. I went back and forth and back and forth, even considering a nickel neckpipe to split the difference, but ultimately that all-nickel slide won out in the end. I didn't try the .508 slide. He had just one in the shop, and I think four .500's, one in all brass. I liked it too, but there was something about the nickel!

After all of that, I wanted to pick a 2nd slightly smaller flare with noticeably different sound. The one that stood out was the red .22 7 3/4" rim that's been mentioned before. That thing is something else! I may have to splurge on the 7 1/2 yellow .22 at some point as well...

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but he's going to stop making trumpets by the end of the year to focus solely on building trombones. I did ask him if he plans to build anything larger, and it didn't seem that he'll be doing that anytime soon. He did mention that he'd consider doing .491 and/or a .481/.491 (like a dual bore 2B) somewhere down the road.
====

Thanks, Dave. Good info, as always, and congratulations on your new Lawler. I think with a bit of arm twisting, Roy could be convinced to build a .525. I think I'll start the arm twisting.

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ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Tue May 24, 2016 6:02 am

Quote from: BillO on May 23, 2016, 06:50AMDo you know what valve he is thinking of using?
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When I was discussing this with Roy, he said he would probably build his own valve.

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ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:34 am

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Ok..............After owning Roy's horn for a while here it is: They are super efficient, super immediate, pitch monsters with a great old-timey sound. You can ease up on your blow and everything that you want is there, with the added benefit of greater endurance. Amazing!

That is all.

Scott

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ttf_DaveAshley · Post by **ttf_DaveAshley** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:06 am

I can't wait til September to take delivery of mine! I'm using a Jiggs 2B right now, and it sounds like a tin can in comparison!

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:53 am

I bought one as my birthday gift to myself several months ago. I have played it for several Salsa gigs and a Big Band rehearsal. Everything said here is true. I have a Selmer Bolero and a Shires MDplus. The Lawler is my favorite of these. More efficient and easier to play with more personality than the MD PLUS and a better tone than the Bolero.

ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:26 am

Quote from: louilou on Jun 16, 2016, 10:53AMI bought one as my birthday gift to myself several months ago. I have played it for several Salsa gigs and a Big Band rehearsal. Everything said here is true. I have a Selmer Bolero and a Shires MDplus. The Lawler is my favorite of these. More efficient and easier to play with more personality than the MD PLUS and a better tone than the Bolero.

Would you say it falls between the two in terms of sound?

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:47 pm

Sound changes quite a bit depending on the material and size of bell flare used in the Lawler. But the general feel is
of efficiency and a sound with an intangible quality that makes it more interesting than the clinical
almost analytical tone of the Shires MD plus. But that is just a personal opinion based on my preferences.

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:47 pm

Quote from: DaveAshley on Jun 16, 2016, 10:06AM I'm using a Jiggs 2B right now, and it sounds like a tin can in comparison!

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Yup!

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ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 1:48 pm

Quote from: louilou on Jun 16, 2016, 12:47PMSound changes quite a bit depending on the material and size of bell flare used in the Lawler. But the general feel is
of efficiency and a sound with an intangible quality that makes it more interesting than the clinical
almost analytical tone of the Shires MD plus. But that is just a personal opinion based on my preferences.

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Spot on, brother!

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ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 4:13 pm

I think I want one of these.

ttf_Duffle · Post by **ttf_Duffle** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:15 pm

Quote from: BillO on Jun 16, 2016, 04:13PMI think I want one of these.

Me too.......... It sounds as if Roy is making something special in his workshop.......

ttf_The Sheriff · Post by **ttf_The Sheriff** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:59 pm

Quote from: Duffle on Jun 16, 2016, 07:15PMMe too.......... It sounds as if Roy is making something special in his workshop.......

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He definitely is.

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ttf_Sid · Post by **ttf_Sid** » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:20 pm

Quote from: Duffle on Jun 16, 2016, 07:15PMMe too.......... It sounds as if Roy is making something special in his workshop.......

I second what Scott said - he is. And for those reading all this likening it to some sort of propaganda, I recommend you find out yourself. That's why I visited. Like many here, I have taken the trombone knowledge path once upon a time. And my proximity to DJ's house makes it relatively easy to try things if I want to (just over an hour away). Having owned several fantastic horns and played even more at his house, what I played at Roy's shop is among the very best that I have ever encountered. The thing that gets me is that it is just him doing this. Very much looking forward to that phone call from him saying the horn is on the way.

ttf_Rathrombones · Post by **ttf_Rathrombones** » Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:03 pm

Quote from: louilou on Jun 16, 2016, 12:47PMSound changes quite a bit depending on the material and size of bell flare used in the Lawler. But the general feel is
of efficiency and a sound with an intangible quality that makes it more interesting than the clinical
almost analytical tone of the Shires MD plus. But that is just a personal opinion based on my preferences.

If I may ask, what setup do you have on your horn?

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:39 pm

I have a brass lightweight. 500 bore slide , a nickel silver neckpipe with a brass tuning slide and the .25 gauge goldbrass stem. My bell flares are .22 gauge 7.75 inch gold brass and .22 8 inch yellow brass bell flare.
I also love the Shires MD plus 508 bore I have and would also reccomend it for the great evenness and great tuning as well as ease of play. The tone of the MD plus is a cleaner sound. The Lawler has more stuff going on with the colors of sound. A person looking for that clean sound might prefer the Shires MD plus over the Lawler. That might be because the Shires is a very lightweight yellow brass bell with nickel silver lightweight slide and a yellow brass king style crook. I ordered the Lawler with different configurations in order to provide a contrast compared to the Shires MD plus which is also a fantastic horn.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:58 pm

What I mean by gold brass is the 85/15 ratio. The yellow brass is the 70/30 ratio I believe.

ttf_Rathrombones · Post by **ttf_Rathrombones** » Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:36 pm

Quote from: louilou on Jun 18, 2016, 03:58PMWhat I mean by gold brass is the 85/15 ratio. The yellow brass is the 70/30 ratio I believe.

Gotcha! Thanks for the response

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ttf_dj kennedy · Post by **ttf_dj kennedy** » Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:30 pm

yeah --i recently had two great blowing bachs'
lt12 w brass outers
mv 16 bell brass outers in twin 509 bore //touch plate --5000s serial BUT 2000s ## on end of outer trim ring --most likely a peppy built
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whats great abt roy is the fine tuning different combos and materials offer
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i have that herb bruce twin bore narrow slide in 525 --but it blows like a 500
had a big boy much earlier
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roy is becoming the new earl w/o all the hype of pinkie
the first time i heard herb on a 490 ---WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ttf_Rathrombones · Post by **ttf_Rathrombones** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:15 am

Quote from: dj kennedy on Jun 19, 2016, 09:30PM
roy is becoming the new earl w/o all the hype of pinkie

It really does seem that way

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