Olds P24G

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 1:00 pm

I've searched the forum, and there's not a lot of gushing reviews of this instrument. I like the small red bell and large valves. Does anyone have any comments about this horn as a doubler's axe? Was an open wrap ever standard issue on this horn? (i've seen one in that config and the owner insists it's factory). Any comments on the playability for chamber music, jazz, orchestra would be appreciated.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:05 pm

I know I have commented about this horn before, and don't have anything new to say... I'll just say that I bought a P24G new back in 1979, while I was in college. After I used for a year or so, I realized I hated it. I know there are some people who have played one and liked it, but not me. After maybe 10 years, mostly using other horns, I unloaded this bone to some one in Japan... that's far enough away.

I'll be happy to send specific comments if you can't find what I have said before.

John Thompson

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:22 pm

Quote from: JTBandMusic on Jul 22, 2015, 02:05PMI know I have commented about this horn before, and don't have anything new to say... I'll just say that I bought a P24G new back in 1979, while I was in college. After I used for a year or so, I realized I hated it. I know there are some people who have played one and liked it, but not me. After maybe 10 years, mostly using other horns, I unloaded this bone to some one in Japan... that's far enough away.

I'll be happy to send specific comments if you can't find what I have said before.

John Thompson

Yeah, I read that. Hoping that someone else has a happier story. But if that's the way it is, then I need to hear it.

ttf_jmtheob · Post by **ttf_jmtheob** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:26 pm

I have had one for several years and it is my pride and joy. It is a bit lacking on the ergonomics, admittedly, but I actually sound really good on it. It has a beautiful tone that actually sounds like a trombone. You don't see them for sale too often because no one wants to give one up.

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:34 pm

How much would a nice example be worth if you found one?

What do you use it for, and why do you like it?

9" bell? open or closed F wrap?

ttf_jmtheob · Post by **ttf_jmtheob** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:57 pm

Quote from: hyperbolica on Jul 22, 2015, 03:34PMHow much would a nice example be worth if you found one?

What do you use it for, and why do you like it?

9" bell? open or closed F wrap?

I originally fell in love with the horn when trying it at Dillon. They wanted $1,800.00 several years ago.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:27 pm

Ferguson Music (hornguys.com) has a pretty nice one on hand right now. The f-attachment wrap has been opened up, but it looks pretty much stock otherwise.

There's a fair amount of info about the P-24G on my site:
http://www.itsabear.com/horns/P24G_S24G/P24G_S24G.html

Factory configuration was a traditional wrap F-attachment, similar to Conn or Bach; the second rotor was normally set up for G. Olds offered an extension for the second valve to put it in Eb (giving Bb/F/Eb/C) with a pull to D. I've also seen some Gb crooks that look to be factory. There was also an option for a 9.5" bell.

I learned long ago to never say never when it comes to what came out of the Olds plant, but the odds are strong against a factory open wrap (I've never seen one). My primary bass is a 9" P-24G with an open-wrap f-attachment; it looks like a factory job, but it's actually an aftermarket conversion supposedly done by Robb Stewart. He doesn't remember this specific horn, but he converted several back in the day and he says it looks like his work.

For my usual playing, I use the aforementioned 9" open-wrap P-24G coupled with Morse shank Schilke 60 (from back when that was a special order). I also have one with a 9.5" bell and traditional wrap attachment that, coupled with a Yamaha Doug Yeo Replica mouthpiece, has become my got-to horn for symphony work.

Be advised that I am an amateur. These rigs give me the sound I want, but I doubt if I could ever make a living with said sound. There's a good bit of "bark" at high volumes, even on my orchestral setup.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:22 am

When I unpacked my P34G, it had F and G triggers with a combination of Eb. I quickly found I could swap the two tuning slides and put the much longer slide into the second valve; that produced F, Gb, and combined D. This was how I played the horn; I thought that was a clever idea. Changing the horn to open wrap would probably make that tuning option impossible.

Someone ergonomic issues... if by that you mean you had to support the entire weight of the horn with just the little finger of your left hand, then yeah. My was left hand was sore and numb for months.

Obviously, if anyone actually LIKES this horn, theirs must not as horribly flat as mine. Were my results typical?

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:33 am

JT,

I have a problem playing too sharp, so maybe this horn would equalize that tendency.

About the awkward holding, I have a Sheridan grip. Do you think that would alleviate the problem of supporting the weight? Is the horn heavier than other basses?

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:02 am

Quote from: JTBandMusic on Jul 23, 2015, 07:22AMWhen I unpacked my P34G, it had F and G triggers with a combination of Eb. I quickly found I could swap the two tuning slides and put the much longer slide into the second valve; that produced F, Gb, and combined D. This was how I played the horn; I thought that was a clever idea. Changing the horn to open wrap would probably make that tuning option impossible.The conversions I've seen did not touch the second valve tubing. If the original F crook is left intact (rather than being cannibalized to build the new crook), you can still use it on the second attachment to get a Gb (though you can't "swap" any more). The actual Gb crooks I've seen are different from the F attachment crook.

QuoteObviously, if anyone actually LIKES this horn, theirs must not as horribly flat as mine. Were my results typical?With the old long-shank Schilke 60 I used to use, I was pretty flat. Not too bad with a Bach-style shank. One of these days, I'm going to have a 'piece made up with the correct Olds shank and see what happens. You might want to go the Doug Elliott route; I'm pretty sure he can make an Olds shank (I know he's got a sample - I sent it to him).

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:11 am

Quote from: JohnL on Jul 23, 2015, 08:02AMWith the old long-shank Schilke 60 I used to use, I was pretty flat. Not too bad with a Bach-style shank. One of these days, I'm going to have a 'piece made up with the correct Olds shank and see what happens. You might want to go the Doug Elliott route; I'm pretty sure he can make an Olds shank (I know he's got a sample - I sent it to him).

I've got a DE setup already a shank should be a simple thing to do.

Oh, and thanks, that website link is very helpful.

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:43 pm

For those of you who own or have owned one of these, do the P24G weigh significantly more than other basses? When I think of olds, I think of thick bells. Does that apply here?

Also curious if anyone has used a sheridan grip with the P24g?

ttf_jmtheob · Post by **ttf_jmtheob** » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:32 pm

Quote from: hyperbolica on Aug 03, 2015, 01:43PMFor those of you who own or have owned one of these, do the P24G weigh significantly more than other basses? When I think of olds, I think of thick bells. Does that apply here?

Also curious if anyone has used a sheridan grip with the P24g?

I don't feel that it is heavier than my Holton TR181 and it isn't heavier than the Bach 50B3 I used to have. I think I had my doubts about the Sheridan grip fitting because I decided not to get one, but you can check with others who would know for sure if you can find them.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 6:11 am

Just to add 2 cents here...

I've never played a P-24G, as my dabbling/doubling on a bass has not required 2 valves.

I do own a P-22 (single valve bass), and it has served me well. I'm VERY satisfied with it, and how it plays - as was my section mates in the swing band I was with. It fit the bill quite well, so I've never tried another bass nor looked for another.

A talented local High School student needed a bass for an ensemble, and chose to use my P-22 over the High School supplied bass (not exactly sure what they had).

Best of luck in your search.

T.

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:26 pm

This topic is a couple years old, but I thought I'd follow up. After a couple years of looking, I finally bought a P-24g. My search for a "goldilocks" horn has taken me to several places, but this is the horn I've been looking for. It sounds and plays like a trombone, it doesn't fight me, with the right mouthpiece it could even play a convincing tenor part.

The ergonomics are a problem, but I've rubber banded a popsicle stick to the second lever, and I can get by like that until i have a nickel soldered to the lever.

This horn is significantly lighter than my Kanstul 1662i, at least a half pound . Now that I play the Olds, I feel like the Kanstul has been fighting me.

The mouthpiece doesn't go in as far, but that's ok. I get a great sound with a solid low C with VB 1 1/4G. A smaller Faxx 1.5G feels better, but the low C isn't as confident.

I'm gonna give this horn a try in quartet and see what happens. So far I like it. It plays like a trombone. If I can figure out the ergonomic and maintenance issues, it might replace the Kanstul.

ttf_schlitzbeer · Post by **ttf_schlitzbeer** » Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:36 pm

Quote from: hyperbolica on Aug 26, 2017, 09:26PM
This horn is significantly lighter than my Kanstul 1662i, at least a half pound . Now that I play the Olds, I feel like the Kanstul has been fighting me.

The mouthpiece doesn't go in as far, but that's ok. I get a great sound with a solid low C with VB 1 1/4G. A smaller Faxx 1.5G feels better, but the low C isn't as confident
Mpc

I'm gonna give this horn a try in quartet and see what happens. So far I like it. It plays like a. It plays like a trombone. If I can figure out the ergonomic and maintenance iassues, it might replace the Kanstul.

Little over a year ago I found a good P-22 from another forum member. I found it to be significantly lighter than my 72h. And I really like that Im not at the point where I need a hand brace on it. Ive found that a lot of the Olds bass bones speak very well with various 1 1/4 sized mouthpieces. If you are looking for the mouthpiece to go in farther, you might try a conn 1 1/4h. Just my experiences only.

ttf_PSJ · Post by **ttf_PSJ** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:08 am

Since this old thread has been re-opened.....I played one in winter 1977 at the Ohio Music Educators conference while a freshman in college. That was my dream horn. Played a S24G through college, ok, but not the P24G. A few different horns later, I got one last fall.

I may be one of the few here that thinks this, but for me, it does everything I want and need. I have a very dark concept of sound, always have had it coming from Tuba to Bass. So for me the slightly brighter sound fits me like a glove.

This has taken over as my main horn for everything. I have parked the Getzen Custom. It has blended great in the regional orchestra I play in and a couple of big bands and all the other gigs. I am a part-time pro.

As far as weight, I find it a lot lighter then the Getzen. Ergonomics....had a quarter soldered to the G trigger and that was pretty much all that was needed. I use a Marcinkiewcz 1 1/2G (oversized 1 1/2G) and it works great.

I am old and learned independent trigger when the standard was F, G, Eb so it feels like old home to me.

It is nice when your dream horn actually plays like a dream!!

Paul

ttf_PSJ · Post by **ttf_PSJ** » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:08 am

Since this old thread has been re-opened.....I played one in winter 1977 at the Ohio Music Educators conference while a freshman in college. That was my dream horn. Played a S24G through college, ok, but not the P24G. A few different horns later, I got one last fall.

I may be one of the few here that thinks this, but for me, it does everything I want and need. I have a very dark concept of sound, always have had it coming from Tuba to Bass. So for me the slightly brighter sound fits me like a glove.

This has taken over as my main horn for everything. I have parked the Getzen Custom. It has blended great in the regional orchestra I play in and a couple of big bands and all the other gigs. I am a part-time pro.

As far as weight, I find it a lot lighter then the Getzen. Ergonomics....had a quarter soldered to the G trigger and that was pretty much all that was needed. I use a Marcinkiewcz 1 1/2G (oversized 1 1/2G) and it works great.

I am old and learned independent trigger when the standard was F, G, Eb so it feels like old home to me.

It is nice when your dream horn actually plays like a dream!!

Paul