High E and Eb always hard to get

[Windmill]

Hi folks

I've discussed with a lot of trombone players, at least in the jazz sphere, and it seems that a recurring problem is to get the high E and Eb (2nd and 3rd position) to lock in right. For example, I've got a good Db, D, and then a good F, F#, G but these 2 notes in the middle are kinda missing, whatever the setup i use. Is it a natural phenomen on the trombone, and how do you cope with that ? What's your favourite exercise to train these ? THanks in advance

[harrisonreed]

Which notes are you taking about:

?

[Windmill]

Yes, high stuff.

[harrisonreed]

The E is squirrelly sometimes but that's a rare note for me. I like to do lip slur arpeggios up and down to those notes, and down and up from them.

The key is to have your tongue filling up a significant amount of your oral cavity, with the tip of your tongue acting as a speed ramp to boost the air in towards the rim of your mouthpiece.

[Pre59]

Try using a sharp 3rd position for the E, and a flat 1st for the Eb. Tune to taste..

[Doug Elliott]

I have never liked Eb in 3rd. It's stronger between 1st and 2nd, about where the 3rd ledger line G is.
E is always hard to lock in. Try approaching it from the F.

[MagnumH]

I’m not as great at this range as I’d like, but I find the same as others have mentioned. Sharp 2 for high Eb is much more solid on all my horns. I actually find E most solid a little further out, somewhere around...4ish? In 2nd it just doesn’t speak for me, even if I gliss up from C in 6th.

[Doug Elliott]

Also F is really strong in 3rd.

[Basbasun]

I was taught Eb on 1,5 (Palmer Traulse 1,4) E on 3,5. But that was in Skandinavia 60 years ago.

[Basbasun]

F on 2,5.

[Windmill]

Thanks a lot for your tips

I'll try it all and let you know if something worked best for me. I actually hit a high F on 3rd once, as i was aiming for a Eb. It popped out real strong !

[Windmill]

So, here i am again

After a nice high range session yesterday, i found out the F to be more confortable in 3rd for me. At least with my current trombone. The high C also feels better in 3rd, and not in 1st. But the Eb remains hard to handle in 1st, and i'll keep working on settling it in 3rd. 1st position just makes me nervous when i play up there, don't know why. Maybe the lack of room before it.

[JLivi]

Get a new horn and mouthpiece!

Just kidding, usually I play Eb and E in 2nd. In my practice I usually approach it in the following ways

1-5-1
1-3-5-1
major scale

I've found that doing that has allowed me to get it in tune easier. But I'm going to try all of these other options later. Especially the high F in 3rd like Doug recommended.

[Doug Elliott]

Eb is not in 1st, it's about 1.5 or #2. I think of it as the same #2 as G (and tune it from there as necessary). The E is in real 2nd, and F is #3, so they're all kind of close together.

[PaulTdot]

Yeah, the high E plays great in straight 2nd position on most horns. The F can sometimes be flat or have trouble speaking in 1st, so some players like to find alternate positions for it - quite a few are available, it's worth fishing around to see where it speaks for you on your horn and your chops.

I also think of the high Eb as being a short 2nd, like the G just below high Bb. However, it speaks great in 3rd position (a partial higher), which may sometimes make for more "familiar" slide movement (e.g. when playing an Ab major triad).