Music Education with or without performance

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 4:36 pm

I am currently senior trombone and euphonium player, and by next week, I will have auditioned to all of the schools I applied to. (College of Saint Rose, Hartt School of Music, SUNY Fredonia, Eastman School of Music, and Ithaca College School of Music)

I know I want to major in music. I'm not sure if I should major in Music Education or do a double major with Music Ed AND Performance. Most schools have a 4.5 year program for the double major, while Hartt has a 5 year program.

I have talked a lot about this with my lesson teacher, among with others that I have a great deal of respect for. I have been told that if I get a lot of scholarship money (which I'm hoping for) and I'm not paying too much, do the double major. If I don't get a crazy amount, just do music education.

Have any of you had experience with students double majoring in music ed/performance?
Do students get more out of double majoring?
Are music ed students just as prepared as double major students?
Is having the performance in your degree increase your 'resume' to getting gigs. (This one is more for trombone, not too many euphonium gigs)

Thanks for your help!

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:12 pm

I'm currently a senior applying to multiple schools in the Southern California area for music ed.

From what I've seen, you can still be a fantastic player while majoring in music ed. Tons of great musicians have majored in education for their undergrad and majored in performance for grad school (a route I may consider).

Either major is going to lead to an extremely busy college schedule, and unless you believe that a dual major is extremely important, I'd personally go with the single major in education.

As for the gigs, it's who you know, how you play, and where you've played; a performance degree doesn't necessarily get you the job, especially if it's for undergrad. Plus, if you plan on getting a "day job" in teaching (which a surprising amount of freelance players that I know would like to do), a performance degree doesn't get you anywhere. I've heard many people say that if they could do it over, they would do education for at least undergrad.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:47 pm

I started a double emphasis (usually you can't get a double major in the same field) in perf/ed. I dropped it because it would have taken me longer than four years to fit all my classes in (we had to take 4 hour lessons as a perf major, 2 for ed). Unless you get perks for being a performance major (priority lessons with your professor instead of a TA) or something... I really don't much see the point in it. Get done with your teaching and get your masters if you want to teach.

What are your plans, do you want to do public schools or do you want to do something else? If you don't want to do public schools, I'd just go for performance. If you do, I don't see a benefit to doing the 2nd emphasis.

ttf_Andrew Pacht · Post by **ttf_Andrew Pacht** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:50 pm

Quote from: Matt K on Feb 03, 2014, 05:47PMI started a double emphasis (usually you can't get a double major in the same field) in perf/ed. I dropped it because it would have taken me longer than four years to fit all my classes in (we had to take 4 hour lessons as a perf major, 2 for ed). Unless you get perks for being a performance major (priority lessons with your professor instead of a TA) or something... I really don't much see the point in it. Get done with your teaching and get your masters if you want to teach.

What are your plans, do you want to do public schools or do you want to do something else? If you don't want to do public schools, I'd just go for performance. If you do, I don't see a benefit to doing the 2nd emphasis.

First off, 4 hour lessons for performance and 2 for ed? WOW. It's 1 hour lessons for performance and for ed. I think Ithaca has 30 minute lessons for music ed, but I'm not sure about that though.

I want to teach, and I think that teaching will be in public schools.

Thanks for the input!

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:01 pm

Quote from: Andrew Pacht on Feb 03, 2014, 05:50PMFirst off, 4 hour lessons for performance and 2 for ed? WOW. It's 1 hour lessons for performance and for ed. I think Ithaca has 30 minute lessons for music ed, but I'm not sure about that though.

I want to teach, and I think that teaching will be in public schools.

Thanks for the input!

Oops, that's not quite what I meant. I meant to say 4/2 credit hour lessons. They were only 1 hour a week, but were counted as 2 or 4 ( or 1 if you weren't a major ). Which was to make up for the fact that we had classes that met for 9 and 10 hours a week for 2 credit hours

ttf_Andrew Pacht · Post by **ttf_Andrew Pacht** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:04 pm

Quote from: Matt K on Feb 03, 2014, 06:01PMOops, that's not quite what I meant. I meant to say 4/2 credit hour lessons. They were only 1 hour a week, but were counted as 2 or 4 ( or 1 if you weren't a major ). Which was to make up for the fact that we had classes that met for 9 and 10 hours a week for 2 credit hours

Okay. Making sure I have the full hour is definitely something that is important.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:25 pm

Quote from: Andrew Pacht on Feb 03, 2014, 06:04PMOkay. Making sure I have the full hour is definitely something that is important.

Yeah, I know there are schools that give 30 minute lessons to ed students, but I can't think of any of them off the top of my head. Although to be honest, if I were in that situtation I'd double emphasis until my penultimate semester and then drop the emphasis lol

ttf_Andrew Pacht · Post by **ttf_Andrew Pacht** » Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:36 pm

I'll talk to the professors and see what lessons are like at each school, and hopefully they will give me advice about double majoring or not.

ttf_trombone addict · Post by **ttf_trombone addict** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 4:58 pm

If you can't see yourself being happy teaching in the public school system as a music teacher or band director, then don't waste the time and money for Ed.

ttf_bassboneman · Post by **ttf_bassboneman** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:17 pm

Hi Andrew,

every person is unique - as is there situation.
Being the son of music teachers - I took the route of majoring in music ed as undergrad and doing a performance major as a graduate for my masters in the music.
The ed major will help you get a job - should your performance aspirations not pan out...
AND
you will have a masters degree in a very useful discipline - which ALMOST everyone nowadays MUST have to become an educator!

HARTT is an excellent institution!
Sadly, SUNY Purchase has undergone several faculty changes - I hope the low brass profs will be able to stay around!
I went to Crane - SUNY Potsdam. Dr. Hartman is a top notch teacher/mentor/and performer!
Ithaca is set up more around the conservatory set up (as is Purchase) - so I cant vouch for the education aspect of their program.

My advice - try and meet each of the faculty members you will be working with before you commit. You will be spending a lot of time and $$ to be around them. It is probably wise to make sure you think you will be able to get along with them!
Good luck in all that you do! I didn't think I would like being a music teacher - but...19 years later - I love it more and more every year! ...and I get to play my axe a lot too

Sam

ttf_Andrew Pacht · Post by **ttf_Andrew Pacht** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:39 pm

Quote from: bassboneman on Feb 07, 2014, 05:17PM
HARTT is an excellent institution!
Sadly, SUNY Purchase has undergone several faculty changes - I hope the low brass profs will be able to stay around!
I went to Crane - SUNY Potsdam. Dr. Hartman is a top notch teacher/mentor/and performer!
Ithaca is set up more around the conservatory set up (as is Purchase) - so I cant vouch for the education aspect of their program.

Yeah, I'd have to say Hartt is one of my top choices right now. It's between Hartt and Ithaca. My 3rd choice is SUNY Fredonia (not Purchase). I know SUNY Fred has a great music ed program, and I have come to see that Ithaca is as well. ALL of the trombonists in my area (including my lesson teacher) ended up going to SUNY Fredonia or Ithaca. When I auditioned to Hartt, I had an interview with the head of the instrumental music education, and I really liked what he had to say about the music ed program. I've seen Fredonia's work first hand. My current band director and BOTH of my middle school band directors graduated from Fredonia. Someone that I play with and look up to went to Fredonia. My lesson teacher went to Ithaca for music ed, and he's the person I want to emulate.

ttf_B0B · Post by **ttf_B0B** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:03 pm

What different courses does the perf major offer at your colleges of choice?

In all honesty, a music ed degree is often a requirement for teaching jobs. Performance... Not so much. That said, some colleges get a bit persnickety with the professor's time and won't give you much access to the actual teacher unless you're a perf major. Talk to the professors. Find out what the pros and cons are at each place.

All that said, your level of preparation has nothing to do with your major. It has everything to do with the effort you put forth. Gigs are dependent upon your willingness to get out there, your ability to network, and your ability to perform (not just musically but professionally).

That said, college is one of the biggest rackets out there today. It potentially loads you full of debt, and neither education nor performance pay well. That is a serious issue to consider unfortunately. It doesn't make sense to rack up 150k-250k worth of debt for a job that pays 40k-50k a year. Even putting aside 10k a year after taxes... that's basically your working life to pay off.

My thought would be to go to the place that has the most opportunities to explore, and the best community to do it in. Then knock through as many as you can while getting your 4 year ed degree.

I graduated as an ed major. I still did 3 recitals, took every performance class offered (plus most jazz and voice perf courses), played/sang in every ensemble they had, took lessons with the trombone prof and up to 3 other teachers (in addition) every semester, gigged outside of school, and much more. I just didn't get much sleep...

ttf_Andrew Pacht · Post by **ttf_Andrew Pacht** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:10 pm

Quote from: B0B on Feb 07, 2014, 06:03PMWhat different courses does the perf major offer at your colleges of choice?

In all honesty, a music ed degree is often a requirement for teaching jobs. Performance... Not so much. That said, some colleges get a bit persnickety with the professor's time and won't give you much access to the actual teacher unless you're a perf major. Talk to the professors. Find out what the pros and cons are at each place.

All that said, your level of preparation has nothing to do with your major. It has everything to do with the effort you put forth. Gigs are dependent upon your willingness to get out there, your ability to network, and your ability to perform (not just musically but professionally).

That said, college is one of the biggest rackets out there today. It potentially loads you full of debt, and neither education nor performance pay well. That is a serious issue to consider unfortunately. It doesn't make sense to rack up 150k-250k worth of debt for a job that pays 40k-50k a year. Even putting aside 10k a year after taxes... that's basically your working life to pay off.

My thought would be to go to the place that has the most opportunities to explore, and the best community to do it in. Then knock through as many as you can while getting your 4 year ed degree.

I graduated as an ed major. I still did 3 recitals, took every performance class offered (plus most jazz and voice perf courses), took lessons with the trombone prof and up to 3 other teachers (in addition) every semester, gigged outside of school, and much more. I just didn't get much sleep...

I haven't looked up the different performance classes, but I have looked up lesson times. I believe Ithaca only gives 30 minute lessons to music ed majors and 1 hour lessons for perf.

If I happen to get enough scholarship money that I'm paying little or no tuition (still paying probably 10K in room and board), is it worth a) the extra time b)getting that hour lesson?

ttf_B0B · Post by **ttf_B0B** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:31 pm

Quote from: Andrew Pacht on Feb 07, 2014, 06:10PMI haven't looked up the different performance classes, but I have looked up lesson times. I believe Ithaca only gives 30 minute lessons to music ed majors and 1 hour lessons for perf.

If I happen to get enough scholarship money that I'm paying little or no tuition (still paying probably 10K in room and board), is it worth a) the extra time b)getting that hour lesson?

Couple things:

Work in actuals, not hypotheticals. You don't have scholarship money yet.

Hartt lists their costs at 46,280 annually. (185,120 for four years) http://harttweb.hartford.edu/admissions/apply/tuition.aspx
Ithaca lists 52,300 annually. (209,200 for four years) http://www.ithaca.edu/finaid/tuition/
(both are for current year. raising costs year after year is unfortunately common. Ithaca went up 2k from last year alone looks like.)

NY State School teacher base pay starts at $45,000. http://schools.nyc.gov/nr/rdonlyres/eddb658c-be7f-4314-85c0-03f5a00b8a0b/0/salary.pdf And don't know about NY specifically, but nationally most new teachers leave the profession (not job, but finding a different career) within their first 5 years.

So yeah, talking a serious commitment of funds that will potentially be with you until you pay them off with no option of bankruptcy. And very well could be with you longer then you teach. Then new career? Does it need training/certification too? That level of debt can be nasty and very burdensome. To put it in perspective, $185,120 is basically buying a house. On a 30 year term with 6% interest, that's 1,109.89 a month, paying a total of 399,559.66 if you keep to the schedule. That hurts.

Also, don't just look to the college for scholarship money. There are TONS of organization out there that hand out anywhere from a couple hundred to thousands of dollars in scholarships for often very little work. Just applying and maybe a hoop or two to jump through. MILK THEM!

That said, who is the half hour with? A grad student or the professor? If with the grad student, would the professor consider teaching you privately outside of the college during this time? That can be a real option. Then you get two teachers at potentially less cost. Also, just because the course of study says a half hour does that mean that's all you can take?

Then comes the thought, you can usually change majors at most any point in your college life, and ed and performance often share many courses. You can potentially double for most of your college career and then drop one in the last year or two and scoot out in 4. (extra course work might even help you get higher pay if teaching)

There are plenty of options to work the system if you will, but a good deal of it depends on how willing people are to work with you. Again, talk to your potential professors. Ask them if you can get performance major time with them on an ed degree. Ask them how easy it is to get into classes that aren't your major. And more then that, know that many doubles take longer because they require more effort. You may be able to cram things in, but know that it's going to take much more work then your peers.

And by that... the non-music majors in my dorm would take 15 or so credits and have 2-3 classes a day. Taking 18-20 music credits can often be double/triple that work.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:29 am

...oh never mind. I wouldn't have listened to me when I was your age either.

ttf_bassboneman · Post by **ttf_bassboneman** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 7:42 am

State-Operated Campuses Baccalaureate Degree Programs

New York State Residents

Out-of-State Residents 2

Living on Campus CommuterLiving on Campus

Tuition $5,870 $5,870 $15,320 3
Student Fees 1 $1,350 $1,350 $1,350
Room and Board $11,770 $3,860 $11,770
Books and Supplies $1,270 $1,270 $1,270
Personal Expenses $1,450 $1,520 $1,450
Transportation $990 $1,770 $990
TOTAL COST $22,700 $15,640 $32,150

ttf_Exzaclee · Post by **ttf_Exzaclee** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 8:10 am

If you want to teach, go to a cheap school that produces good teachers so you can graduate with little debt and teach. There will be openings but they won't be the most desirable openings nor the highest paying.

If you want to play, find a private lesson teacher who plays what you want to play at a school with good performing ensembles. Plan on doing more than four years because ensembles and lessons (and many of the important music classes, like 18th century counterpoint and orchestration) have a small number of credits associated with them. Practice. A lot. You're entering a field with a shrinking number of jobs and an over-abundance of candidates.

Whatever you do, do not take on 50K worth of student debt (or more) for a music degree.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:42 am

The cost of education has come and rightly so. Another option to pay for college and develop playing skills are military bands.

After basic training and music school (if applicable), you'll be at your first assignment with a bit of research (and luck) you should be able to find a quality teacher to take lessons from. Some units will actually pay for the lessons, and music-related coursework at local colleges / universities. You can also earn money for college, get lots of chop time, and perhaps save some coin by using coursework to pass out of certain courses (e.g. music theory) if you decide to go for an ed and/or performance degree after getting out. However, you might be stationed somewhere where you find no lessons or music coursework available to you. Regardless, you'll be earning money for college to the GI Bill, which may make it all worthwhile.

Note that the Army has moved to an abbreviated course, much shorter than it used to be. The Navy and Marine Corp's (and army) used to have a 6 month crash course in theory & aural training, plus lessons and tons of time to play. You'll have to research if the program still exists for yourself. The Air Force had no music school; you get hired and sent directly to a unit after basic. This may all have changed; again, do the research.

Just remember that you'll still be a soldier, sailor, etc. and be subject to the bs associated with a military organization. For instance, you may have a sergeant over you who can't play his/her way out of a paper bag, but they're giving you directions including to clean the urinals.

There are others who could perhaps shed more light on the subject of service bands as of late as an alternative to what you are planning.

The stat posted earlier was correct: 50% of teachers get out of teaching within the first 5 years of being in the profession. I would actually discourage any student of mine thinking of going into music ed, but that's outside the scope of this topic; in addition, I don't know you or your situation so I will not make a recommendation for you either way. Pm me if you have any specific questions regarding military bands and your future performance/music ed decisions.

ttf_Andrew Pacht · Post by **ttf_Andrew Pacht** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 4:56 pm

Quote from: B0B on Feb 07, 2014, 06:31PMCouple things:

Work in actuals, not hypotheticals. You don't have scholarship money yet.

Hartt lists their costs at 46,280 annually. (185,120 for four years) http://harttweb.hartford.edu/admissions/apply/tuition.aspx
Ithaca lists 52,300 annually. (209,200 for four years) http://www.ithaca.edu/finaid/tuition/
(both are for current year. raising costs year after year is unfortunately common. Ithaca went up 2k from last year alone looks like.)

NY State School teacher base pay starts at $45,000. http://schools.nyc.gov/nr/rdonlyres/eddb658c-be7f-4314-85c0-03f5a00b8a0b/0/salary.pdf And don't know about NY specifically, but nationally most new teachers leave the profession (not job, but finding a different career) within their first 5 years.

So yeah, talking a serious commitment of funds that will potentially be with you until you pay them off with no option of bankruptcy. And very well could be with you longer then you teach. Then new career? Does it need training/certification too? That level of debt can be nasty and very burdensome. To put it in perspective, $185,120 is basically buying a house. On a 30 year term with 6% interest, that's 1,109.89 a month, paying a total of 399,559.66 if you keep to the schedule. That hurts.

Also, don't just look to the college for scholarship money. There are TONS of organization out there that hand out anywhere from a couple hundred to thousands of dollars in scholarships for often very little work. Just applying and maybe a hoop or two to jump through. MILK THEM!

That said, who is the half hour with? A grad student or the professor? If with the grad student, would the professor consider teaching you privately outside of the college during this time? That can be a real option. Then you get two teachers at potentially less cost. Also, just because the course of study says a half hour does that mean that's all you can take?

Then comes the thought, you can usually change majors at most any point in your college life, and ed and performance often share many courses. You can potentially double for most of your college career and then drop one in the last year or two and scoot out in 4. (extra course work might even help you get higher pay if teaching)

There are plenty of options to work the system if you will, but a good deal of it depends on how willing people are to work with you. Again, talk to your potential professors. Ask them if you can get performance major time with them on an ed degree. Ask them how easy it is to get into classes that aren't your major. And more then that, know that many doubles take longer because they require more effort. You may be able to cram things in, but know that it's going to take much more work then your peers.

And by that... the non-music majors in my dorm would take 15 or so credits and have 2-3 classes a day. Taking 18-20 music credits can often be double/triple that work.

I say this planning on scholarships. I always have SUNY Fredonia that the BASE price is very low that I can go to. Like someone else said, I don't want over 50K in debt. The 30 minute lessons would be with the studio teacher. I was actually auditioning at the school today, and I was told by the trombone teacher that technically they're 30 minute lessons, but he will do 45 minutes as a bare minimum. Also, he said that the school is working on getting hour lessons for all music majors, and that this possible change could come as early as this fall.

I have no intentions/desires to join the army. I admire soldiers and their dedication to our country, but that isn't what I want to do. I realize that without that, there is pretty much NO euphonium performance opportunities, and I have come to accept that. My first priority is ed anyways.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:18 pm

There are some scholarships for education people if you want to work in an underprivileged area upon graduation. I looked into it awhile ago when I was contemplating doing that myself. I don't remember where I found it to be honest, sorry I can't be of more help.

ttf_B0B · Post by **ttf_B0B** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:14 am

Quote from: Matt K on Feb 08, 2014, 05:18PMThere are some scholarships for education people if you want to work in an underprivileged area upon graduation. I looked into it awhile ago when I was contemplating doing that myself. I don't remember where I found it to be honest, sorry I can't be of more help.

NYC has a program like that I believe. One caveat with those programs, their retention is not exactly great. Take Teach For America for example.

http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2011/10/04/kappan_donaldson.html
QuoteHow long are TFA teachers careers?
We expected to find that a large proportion of TFA teachers in our sample would have left teaching after completing their two-year obligation to TFA. But, we found that 60.5% of teachers taught in K-12 schools longer than two years and more than one third (35.5%) taught for more than four years. After five years, 27.8% were still in teaching. This retention rate is markedly lower than the 50% estimated for new teachers across all types of schools (Smith & Ingersoll, 2003). Good data are not currently available that would allow us to compare TFA teachers turnover to teachers turnover in similar high-poverty schools, although reports from Philadelphia suggest that the rates may be roughly comparable (Neild, Useem, Travers, & Lesnick, 2003).https://www.teachforamerica.org/sites/default/files/Research_on_Teach_For_America_2012_1.pdf
Quote2010 Teach For America: A Review of the Evidence: Julian Vasquez Heilig and Su Jin Jez; Great Lakes
Center for Education Research & Practice

The authors conducted a meta-analysis of previous research on the classroom impact
of Teach For America. The two main takeaways were: 1) retention rates for Teach For
America teachers are low; and 2) corps members student achievement results are, at
best, mixed.
The reason specifically is that these are hard schools to teach at, and they can really take their toll, sap your passions, and burn you out.

In NC, there used to be a state program called "teaching fellows" to encourage new teachers in general, and gave a full ride if they taught 4 years in the state after graduation. That was a great program. No debt, choice of schools, and added support. Ones that require you to go to the schools no one else wants... be very careful. There are some very good reasons why people don't take those positions if they have a choice.

Otherwise, I'd have to second Exzaclee. Despite all the hype you get about college rankings in high school, the only questions I've had in my professional life through multiple careers are: 1) do you have a college degree? 2) what is it in? That's it.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:17 pm

That doesn't seem like it's much lower than regular teacher rates to be honest

ttf_bassboneman · Post by **ttf_bassboneman** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:39 pm

...not to be nit picky here - but I seem to remember SUNY Potsdam (Crane)giving 60 minute lessons to all studio members. Ed or performance - it didn't matter. I don't know if that was the instructors call or if that was a school policy.
30 minutes goes by really fast - I find it hard to believe that college students would get anything less than a 30 minute lesson. Well...of course unless it was a DAILY lesson for 30 minutes...
I was a horrible practice until I got to college. I quickly learned that 2,3-4 hours a day was going to be necessary!
I loved college - would go back in a heart beat - if I could get in

ttf_Andrew Pacht · Post by **ttf_Andrew Pacht** » Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:13 pm

Quote from: bassboneman on Feb 11, 2014, 06:39PM...not to be nit picky here - but I seem to remember SUNY Potsdam (Crane)giving 60 minute lessons to all studio members. Ed or performance - it didn't matter. I don't know if that was the instructors call or if that was a school policy.
30 minutes goes by really fast - I find it hard to believe that college students would get anything less than a 30 minute lesson. Well...of course unless it was a DAILY lesson for 30 minutes...

I talked with the professors at the school that only had 30 minute lessons for ed, and one of the teachers told me that he does 45 minutes instead of the 30 minute lessons. He also told me that in the near future, all music majors will get hour lessons. It's something the school hasn't done while most other schools do it.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 11:36 am

Andrew-
Did you make a decision?

ttf_W/SBTRB · Post by **ttf_W/SBTRB** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:53 pm

It has been said already but I'll second those who have said it by saying it in a different way......if you plan to teach, the school you attend is not going to make a whole lot of difference. What will make a difference is how you handle your self as a student and as a student teacher. More importantly you want people to give you a good recommendation. Having taught for 36 years and supervised student teachers I always tell them when they do their observations, practicums, student teaching, etc., DON"T MESS UP. Everyone of them are teaching. Nothing pleases me more than when the cooperating teacher says the student teaching experience was a pleasant experience for them and they would like more.

If you want to perform go study with the people who do it. My son has studied with the likes of Peter Sullivan, James Kraft, and John Kitzman........he is performing in an orchestra and teaching at two colleges.....all at the tender age of 26. Again....don't mess up!

By the way.....I have a Masters in music education from Ithaca......Ranking with my diploma, the most important piece of paper I got from them was my permanent licensure for teaching music K-12 in New York........and a great big thanks to Dr. Jack Bullock.

ttf_Andrew Pacht · Post by **ttf_Andrew Pacht** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 8:09 pm

Quote from: tombone21 on Apr 18, 2014, 11:36AMAndrew-
Did you make a decision?

I actually made a decision about two hours ago!

I'll be going to SUNY Fredonia for music education!! (No double major)

My parents have offered to cover room and board for my undergrad, so I will be left with less than $20,000 in debt from tuition!!

ttf_tombone21 · Post by **ttf_tombone21** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:44 am

Congratulations! Best of luck to you in the next 4 years!

ttf_bassboneman · Post by **ttf_bassboneman** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:01 am

Bravo! Andrew!! You made a wise decision.
Get as much as you can from the SUNY system! Keep track of your course credits. Mistakes happen on the admin side - so this is important.
As my parents said, "College is the best time of your life." Especially for music majors! Once you leave the college arena for a professional one you wont be surrounded by as many like minded folk.
Play as much as you can! Duets, trios, quartets, trombone ensemble. Do it all.
Best of luck in all you do! Come back to the TTF and let us know how you are doing

Sam

ttf_tmmytm1 · Post by **ttf_tmmytm1** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:10 pm

Tell Dr. Deemer hello!!!

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat May 03, 2014 8:50 am

Hey Andrew congrats on choosing Fredonia, I am a sophomore trombone music education major at Fredonia and it is a great program. If you have any questions feel free to contact me.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:45 am

Quote from: Andrew Pacht on Apr 18, 2014, 08:09PM
I actually made a decision about two hours ago!

I'll be going to SUNY Fredonia for music education!! (No double major)

My parents have offered to cover room and board for my undergrad, so I will be left with less than $20,000 in debt from tuition!!

good call cakeboss

ttf_djdekok · Post by **ttf_djdekok** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:25 am

Hail Fredonia!

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:41 am

Lol he's been at that school for 3 years now...

ttf_harrison.t.reed · Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:41 am

Lol he's been at that school for 3 years now...