Slide widths

[quiethorn]

Is there a resource anywhere for slide widths? Not bore sizes--widths. Manufacturers don't seem to include side width measurements in their specs, but it's a pretty important part of how a horn fits on your face.

Small horns tend to have narrow slides, large bore horns have wide slides, but I'm more interested in the widths of various horns in the middle. If no resource exists, we could easily create one here with forum members' input.

[SwissTbone]

Here's a good start

https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10924

[ithinknot]

I've combined everything I could find in the archives, plus some additions (and minus Bruce's contributions that were measured to a different standard). Let's keep this going!

• Outer-tube-to-outer-tube width measurements only, measured away from oversleeves/thicker-drawn sleeves/ferrules/brace flanges. Easiest to avoid any of these if you measure at the outer tubes, just above the crook ferrules or extrusions. See photo below.
• Measurements in mm, rounded to the nearest whole number. There are bound to be minor variations between examples of the same model arising from the exact fit of straight ferrules onto slightly curved crook ends, or from past realignments - higher levels of precision would complicate more than inform. 1" = 25.4mm.

slide width.jpg

Width (mm)	Model	Remarks	Reporter
63	Conn 44H		ithinknot
64	Olds Standard		FEWeathers
64	Olds Super		FEWeathers
65	Olds Ambassador		FEWeathers
65	Conn 30H		FEWeathers
66	Conn 32H		hyperbolica
68	Bach 6	NY and Mt. Vernon examples	ithinknot
68	Bach 16M		BellEnd
68	Holton TR102		ithinknot
68	King 3B		FEWeathers
68	King 3B+ (2125)	serial #897xxx	jorymil
68	King 606	1981	although
68	King 607F	90s	jorymil
68	XO 1632		ithinknot
68	XO 1634		dcslideman
69	Bach 8	NY	calcbone
69	Bach 16M	M/K Drawing
69	Besson 10-10		ithinknot
69	Conn 48H	1959	hyperbolica
69	Courtois AC402 Xtreme		hyperbolica
69	Jiggs pBone	color not specified	quiethorn
69	King 2B 'Liberty'	1938	Estraven
69	King 2B		soseggnchips
69	King 2BL Jiggs Whigham		ithinknot
69	King 2B+		ithinknot
69	Schilke ST30		ithinknot
69	Schilke ST31		ithinknot
69	'Universal small tenor'	M/K Drawing
69	Yamaha YSL 891Z		ithinknot
70	Amati ASL 601		ithinknot
70	Conn 6H	Elkhart 1952	although
70	Conn 6H		FEWeathers
70	Conn 48H		hyperbolica
70	Conn 100H		ithinknot
70	Getzen 1050		hyperbolica
70	Martin TR4501 Urbie Green		ithinknot
70	Rath R1	pre-modular	ithinknot
70	Yamaha YSL 653		PhilE
71	Olds Recording		FEWeathers
71	Olds Recording	M/K Drawing
71	Olds Recording	1954	hyperbolica
71	Rath R10	2021	ithinknot
72	Selmer Bolero		BellEnd
72	Shires MD		ithinknot
72	Shires MD+		hyperbolica
74	Lawler 'Big Boy' .525	old model, 1999	SwissTbone
78	Conn 88H	Elkhart 1969	Estraven
78	Conn 88HTCL		Ted
78	Conn sl4747		hyperbolica
78.5	Kühnl & Hoyer Bart van Lier .500		K&H
78.5	Kühnl & Hoyer Bart van Lier .512		K&H
79	Blessing B8		soseggnchips
79	Conn 88H	Abilene 1978	although
79	Conn sl2525		hyperbolica
79	B&S 3085B		johnjenkins
79	Rath R4F	#3XX	ithinknot
79	Shires .525		Walleye
79	Yamaha YSL 356		Matt K
79	Yamaha YSL 445		dcslideman
79	Yamaha YSL 448		dcslideman
79	Yamaha YSL 641		PhilE
79	Yamaha YSL 882O		Claudio
80	Besson 940 / 941		BellEnd
80	King 4BF	1980s	Ted
81	Bach LT36B	Corp., early/mid 60's	Estraven
81	Bach 36		Walleye
81	Benge 190		soseggnchips
81	Conn 62HI		ithinknot
81	Conn 70H	1955, opera wheel	ithinknot
81	Conn 72H	Elkhart	johnjenkins
81	'Conn/Reynolds bass'	M/K Drawing
81	Wide Glide	aftermarket	BellEnd
82	Conn 88H	Abilene	Estraven
82	Conn 72H		hyperbolica
82	Conn 78H	1967	hyperbolica
82	Conn 79H		hyperbolica
82	Yamaha YBL-322		Ted
83	Rath R4F	#721	SwissTbone
86	Benge 290		ithinknot
87	Kühnl & Hoyer Slokar Performance		Hawaiyan
87	Rath R9		ithinknot
88	Bach 42		glenp
88	B&H Sovereign Bass		PhilE
88	XO 1240		johnjenkins
88	Yamaha YSL 820GII		PhilE
89	Bach 50B		fwbassbone
89	Bach 50B	early Elkhart Corporation	Hawaiyan
89	Courtois Challenger II		johnjenkins
89	Edwards STDN	wide tenor slide - yellow brass crook - early 2000s	johnjenkins
89	Getzen 3047AFR		quiethorn
89	Holton TR156	dual bore .547-.559, serial #634xxx	ithinknot
89	Holton TR181	recent, Elkhart	ithinknot
89	Kanstul 1662i		hyperbolica
89	Olds S20		hyperbolica
89	Besson Sovereign BE942		PhilE
89	Shires QB62	Q36 bass	boneberg
90	Shires QTW47	Q30 large tenor	boneberg
91	Bach 50		SwissTbone
91	Edwards B-DBN		SwissTbone
91	Shires B62-78 BOL		SwissTbone
92	Greenhoe GB5		fwbassbone
93	Bach 42		SwissTbone
93	Shires q Series large bore		SwissTbone
93	Shires TW47G	TBC	SwissTbone
94	Holton TR256	dual bore .547-.559, serial #613xxx	Crazy4Tbone86
94	Shires TB47NLW		SwissTbone

[harrisonreed]

Interesting that the 79H is a cm wider than the 88H slides

[ithinknot]

Interesting that the 79H is a cm wider than the 88H slides

? 82mm versus 78.5ish...

The minor difference between the two modern 88H slides is just a rounding discrepancy based on the narrower outer tubes on the .525 - it's possible that the same crook is used for both.

[harrisonreed]

Interesting that the 79H is a cm wider than the 88H slides

? 82mm versus 78.5ish...

The minor difference between the two modern 88H slides is just a rounding discrepancy based on the narrower outer tubes on the .525 - it's possible that the same crook is used for both.

Oh, wow, somehow I displaced a number in my head slydexically. In read the 89 on the next line. Pay me no heed.

[SwissTbone]

Keep in mind those may be rough measurements. I'm not sure everyone has a caliper to measure slide width. So some measures may be off by 1 or 2 cm.

Is still gives a very good idea as to the ergonomics of a slide if someone needs a wider slide

[FEWeathers]

Scratching my head over that Olds Ambassador measurement, 'cause mine is the same as the Super, and Standard, though a little shorter than them. So, 64.5 (2.54").

Got another one for the list: King 3B - 67.8 (2.67").

[boneberg]

What about Shires TW47 and TB47?

[ithinknot]

Scratching my head over that Olds Ambassador measurement

I looked again at the M/K website - they give an inner width of 2.75", but the center-to-center measurement indicates a much smaller crook, in line with your measurements. So that must be a typo. Thanks -that's been corrected, and I've added the King to the list.

[ithinknot]

Keep in mind those may be rough measurements. I'm not sure everyone has a caliper to measure slide width. So some measures may be off by 1 or 2 cm.

Is still gives a very good idea as to the ergonomics of a slide if someone needs a wider slide

Hopefully they're off by 1 or 2 mm

But yes, and that's why we needn't worry too much about decimal accuracy... the value of the info is comparative, rather than absolute.

Keep 'em coming!

[SwissTbone]

Keep in mind those may be rough measurements. I'm not sure everyone has a caliper to measure slide width. So some measures may be off by 1 or 2 cm.

Is still gives a very good idea as to the ergonomics of a slide if someone needs a wider slide

Hopefully they're off by 1 or 2 mm

But yes, and that's why we needn't worry too much about decimal accuracy... the value of the info is comparative, rather than absolute.

Keep 'em coming!

Oh yes. Mm not cm.

[paulyg]

Wouldn't it make more sense to compare center-to-center distances? Add one outer tube diameter to that inside measurement, or subtract one tube diameter from an outside measurement.

[hyperbolica]

Wouldn't it make more sense to compare center-to-center distances? Add one outer tube diameter to that inside measurement, or subtract one tube diameter from an outside measurement.

Yes, center to center would be better, but the error factor would go up. At least inside to inside gives hard stops to measure to,

My measurements were made with a 4 place (imperial) digital caliper. Nearest MM seems a little limiting. One decimal in mm wouldn't be overkill.

[ithinknot]

Yes, center to center would be better, but the error factor would go up. At least inside to inside gives hard stops to measure to,

My measurements were made with a 4 place (imperial) digital caliper. Nearest MM seems a little limiting. One decimal in mm wouldn't be overkill.

Same here - or .01mm, if I want. For the purposes that this info might be used - "is it likely to fit around my 'roid-enhanced monster neck?" - extra precision didn't seem necessary.

My intention was to avoid discouraging those without calipers from contributing, in the hope that we would get more models covered

[SwissTbone]

Here are some more:

Bach 50: 91
Edward's B-DBN: 91
Shires B62-78 BOL: 91
Rath r4f 721: 83
Shires tw47g: 93 Anyone can confirm that?
Bach 42: 93
Shires tb47nlw: 94
Shires q Series large bore: 93
Lawler big boy old model: 74

[boneberg]

Thanks SwissTbone! Especially for the specs on the Shires and Bachs.
Anybody have anything from Getzen large tenor and bass?

[quiethorn]

Thanks, guys. This is awesome. In particular, the .525 horns are what I'm after, so good to see the Bach 36 and others on there.

I don't have calipers, but my Getzen 3047AFR looks to be about 89mm.

I'm also interested in the widths of the medium-bore Yamaha horns if anyone has one. I played one for a couple years a long time ago, but I can't remember what I thought about the slide width.

[paulyg]

Here are some more:

Bach 50: 91
Edward's B-DBN: 91
Shires B62-78 BOL: 91
Rath r4f 721: 83
Shires tw47g: 93 Anyone can confirm that?
Bach 42: 93
Shires tb47nlw: 94
Shires q Series large bore: 93
Lawler big boy old model: 74

Notice how the Bach 42 and Bach 50 yield different measurements under this system. The real center-to-center measurement should be exactly the same, since they have the same crook, but since the Bach 50's outer slide tubes are bigger, the measurement here is smaller.

[ithinknot]

Notice how the Bach 42 and Bach 50 yield different measurements under this system. The real center-to-center measurement should be exactly the same, since they have the same crook, but since the Bach 50's outer slide tubes are bigger, the measurement here is smaller.

No one's disagreeing with you, and the reason for the (ergonomically insignificant) discrepancy will be obvious to anyone who cares enough to think about it.

The point here was to be able to retain measurements already reported in the forum archives and, more importantly, to make it as easy as possible for other users to contribute without necessarily requiring calipers or calculations.

Thanks to everyone who's contributed so far!

[Elow]

I was wondering why the bollinger slide had a smaller distance than the other shires

[LeoInFL]

Notice how the Bach 42 and Bach 50 yield different measurements under this system. The real center-to-center measurement should be exactly the same, since they have the same crook, but since the Bach 50's outer slide tubes are bigger, the measurement here is smaller.

No one's disagreeing with you, and the reason for the (ergonomically insignificant) discrepancy will be obvious to anyone who cares enough to think about it.

The point here was to be able to retain measurements already reported in the forum archives and, more importantly, to make it as easy as possible for other users to contribute without necessarily requiring calipers or calculations.

Thanks to everyone who's contributed so far!

It would take at most (2) additional measurements to get the center-to-center distance on any outer handslide.

'Worst' case is a dual bore slide (assuming the difference in bore isn't accomplished by using a thicker gauge inner slide tube):
1) measure the full width of the top outer tube then divide that by 2
2) measure the inside gap between the outer tubes
3) measure the full width of the bottom outer tube then divide that by 2
4) add those (3) numbers together will give you the center-to-center distance

A single-bore handslide is easier (per the example above, think of it as half of the top tube + half of the bottom tube = just the full width of either top or bottom):
1) measure the full width of either top or bottom outer slide tube
2) measure the gap between the outer slide tubes
3) add those (2) numbers together will give you the center-to-center distance

[ronnies]

I was wondering why the bollinger slide had a smaller distance than the other shires

Dual bore slide so thicker lower tube makes the gap smaller?

Ronnie

[ithinknot]

Blerg, internet. I've explained the practical reasoning enough. If you'd like to provide a longer list, measured to a standard of your choosing, go right ahead.

You're offered a free cookie. Take the cookie, or don't.

Don't ask for a white, gluten-free Ford Bronco instead.

[SwissTbone]

I think the way it is done here is good enough. ithinknot made a great job compiling the data. Thanks for that!

[Ted]

My 88HTCL: 78mm
YBL-322: 82mm
King 4BF (80s) 80mm

[quiethorn]

I think the way it is done here is good enough. ithinknot made a great job compiling the data. Thanks for that!

Yep, it'll be a great help for those poking around online for used horns wondering "I wonder how wide the slide is compared to my XX horn."

Hey, here's another one to add: Jiggs pbone 69mm

[jjenkins]

Using a digital caliper, I've measured the following:

78.5 mm - B&S 3085B
81 mm - Conn Elkhart 72H
88 mm - Jupiter XO 1240
89 mm - Courtois Challenger II

[quiethorn]

I like the remark on my pBone, "color not specified"

It's red, btw.

[ithinknot]

... and thanks, John and Ted.

[PhilE]

This is great information.
I have a YSL 653 in mint condition but it is so uncomfortable to play because of the narrow slide.
I recently went to a local music shop to try out some of the latest Yamaha medium and large bore tenor bones with F attachment.
On every one of them the slide width was such that the valve made contact with my jaw.
I'll post a few measurements from my collection shortly.

[jjenkins]

89 mm - Edwards STDN (wide tenor slide - yellow brass crook - early 2000s)

[hyperbolica]

Courtois ac402 Xtreme, .508 bore - 69.0 mm

[Crazy4Tbone86]

There was a time, possibly late 1980s, in which Holton had some exceptionally wide slides. I have a TR-256 (dual bore .547-.559, serial #613xxx) slide that is 94 mm.

I remember finding and installing a Holton bass crook on a custom horn several years back. The shop I bought it from said that the crook had been sitting in a parts bin for many years and was simply labeled "Holton Bass." It was VERY large/wide....wider than my TR-256 and noticeably wider than the standard Bach 42/50 crooks. I remember that the inside bore was .608 inch and I would estimate that the width of the slide was at least 95 mm. Now I wish that I would have measured and recorded the width!

[ithinknot]

I decided to get a new K&H Bart Van Lier .500. I contacted K&H and they measured both the .500 and .512 between the top and bottom tubes, and they were 78.5 mm.

[PhilE]

YSL641 79 mm
YSL653 70 mm
YSL820GII 88 mm
Besson Sovereign BE942 89 mm
B&H Sovereign Bass 88 mm

[soseggnchips]

Another one for the list:

King 2B - 69mm

[Oslide]

I've combined everything I could find in the archives, plus some additions (and minus Bruce's contributions that were measured to a different standard). Let's keep this going!

I wanted to know a few slide widths, remembered there was something on the forum, and found your fine compilation.
I know it must have been quite some work to pick out all the data, and I want to give you a big "Thank You" for your efforts!

[Joebone]

This is a seriously useful thread, deserving of sticky status! Thanks to all whom made this happen...

[fwbassbone]

Here are two more. Greenhoe GB5 92 and my 50B 89. I don't know why my 50 is slightly narrower than the others listed. I measured it twice just to be sure.

[Hawaiyan]

I have a Bach early Elkhart Corporation 50B single with 89. Also my K&H(Kühnl & Hoyer) Slokar Performance is 87.

[Oslide]

Can anybody quote the slide width (outer-tube-to-outer-tube) of the Yamaha YSL-356G which is the dual bore model (.500 - .525)?
Thank you!

[Matt K]

Can anybody quote the slide width (outer-tube-to-outer-tube) of the Yamaha YSL-356G which is the dual bore model (.500 - .525)?
Thank you!

If you don't get an answer in a few weeks, message me and I'll have access to mine and can measure for you

[Estraven]

I’ll add in my $0.02, for what it’s worth. All four of these are in my possession.

Conn 88H, Abilene (I think, s/n is obliterated): 81.5mm
Conn 88H, Elkhart ‘69: 78.0mm
King 2B “Liberty”, ‘38: 68.7mm
Bach “Corp.” 36B, lightweight slide, early/mid 60’s): 80.5mm

That Abilene slide measurement is interesting (so interesting, I remeasured both slides twice) because its so different from the Elkhart and from the Gen II slides. The slide end crooks are also different designs.

[although]

Here are some more data points!
Conn 88H (Abilene 1978) 79
Conn 6H (Elkhart 1952) 70
King 606 (1981) 68

Cheers!

mike

[Matt K]

Just measured my 356 slide; it's 3 1/8" (3.125") or 79.375 mm for the 356 I have.

[hyperbolica]

Olds Recording 1954 2.80 inch 71.1mm

78h 1967 3.23 in 81.97mm

48h 1959 2.72 in 69.2 mm

[ithinknot]

There was a time, possibly late 1980s, in which Holton had some exceptionally wide slides. I have a TR-256 (dual bore .547-.559, serial #613xxx) slide that is 94 mm.

I remember finding and installing a Holton bass crook on a custom horn several years back. The shop I bought it from said that the crook had been sitting in a parts bin for many years and was simply labeled "Holton Bass." It was VERY large/wide....wider than my TR-256 and noticeably wider than the standard Bach 42/50 crooks. I remember that the inside bore was .608 inch and I would estimate that the width of the slide was at least 95 mm. Now I wish that I would have measured and recorded the width!

...and the one I'm looking at here (not far off in serial no - #634xxx and still long pre-CS acquisition) is 89mm. Holton does seem full of shenanigans

[quiethorn]

Kind of a long shot, but does anyone have a measurement on a JP Rath JP331 or JP231 since I'd guess they're the same?

[Claudio]

very useful table
my Yamaha Xeno Bb/F is 78.6mm (by caliper) inner slide