Shires Q&A, what would you like to know?

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 7:33 am

Detailed in another thread someone mentioned that we at Shires offer products and specifications that are not detailed on our website, especially instruments/components that some of our artists play. We have the capability for offering a simply dizzying array of options and detailing every single on on the website would be both incredibly time consuming for us and potentially paralyzing for the customer! Moreover, we find that most of our customers find the greatest success with a very small percentage of the options available.

But I know the nerd in all of us wants to explore, so I'm creating this thread for your questions. I'm sure there are certain things I cannot detail, but I can certainly answer most general questions, especially about specifications that might not be detailed elsewhere.

So ask away! I will do my best to fill you in.

-Ben

ttf_cozzagiorgi · Post by **ttf_cozzagiorgi** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:27 am

Great!

2 Simple questions: Is the Shires Master series already available in Switzerland?
Will there be a bass version? If so, when?

Thanks for the time you put in this forum!

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:35 am

Quote from: cozzagiorgi on Nov 19, 2013, 08:27AMGreat!

2 Simple questions: Is the Shires Master series already available in Switzerland?
Will there be a bass version? If so, when?

Thanks for the time you put in this forum!

Hello!

Currently there are no plans for a bass trombone version of the Master Series. However if there was enough interest shown we would certainly give it serious consideration.

We have not currently shipped any orders to Switzerland; this is a new product and sometimes it takes a little while. We are hopeful it will find its way there shortly.

Thank You,
Ben

ttf_cozzagiorgi · Post by **ttf_cozzagiorgi** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:52 am

0k, is me myself and l enough interest?

How does this stuff work: Does the dealer order and stock them or do the dealers only order when a customer wants them? Generally speaking.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:13 am

Okay, so a few of the ones I was curious about... Jim Nova plays a TW47L, is that different than a LW? His bell is 5GLW+, is that slightly heavier than a 5GM? (This is what appears on the "custom" page, but on the artist page it's something different). There it lists his horn (.547) as TII 7YM A5. What is the A5? Similarly Angel Subero plays something listed as an "A1" and Johathan Whitaker an "A4", is that a similar designation?

Greg Spiridopoulos is listed as playing a TII 7GTS8 bell. What does that "T" stand for? Otherwise it's a Type II receiver with a type 7 bell in gold, silver plated 8" flare, right? I thought "Gold tuning slide" but that is listed on the site as TG.

Bill Zehfuss plays a 5YTB. A type 5 yellow bell... TB?

Some more general questions:
Are 9" bells setup for tenors or basses?

How is the production (edit) of the case coming along for Ralph Sauer screwbell horns?

I've seen some 3 bells, are 3 bells no longer offered, were they prototype bells?

What is the distinction between a T7 treatment and a lighter bell. Is it that just the flare is thinner?

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:19 am

Quote from: cozzagiorgi on Nov 19, 2013, 08:52AM0k, is me myself and l enough interest?

How does this stuff work: Does the dealer order and stock them or do the dealers only order when a customer wants them? Generally speaking.

Every dealer makes their own decisions on what stock and what they wish to order. In this case, Master Series trombones are only available through dealers, so you would need to speak to your swiss Shires dealer regarding that.

Ben

ttf_gbedinger · Post by **ttf_gbedinger** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:20 am

Quote from: Matt K on Nov 19, 2013, 09:13AMOkay, so a few of the ones I was curious about... Jim Nova plays a TW47L, is that different than a LW? His bell is 5GLW+, is that slightly heavier than a 5GM? (This is what appears on the "custom" page, but on the artist page it's something different). There it lists his horn (.547) as TII 7YM A5. What is the A5? Similarly Angel Subero plays something listed as an "A1" and Johathan Whitaker an "A4", is that a similar designation?

Greg Spiridopoulos is listed as playing a TII 7GTS8 bell. What does that "T" stand for? Otherwise it's a Type II receiver with a type 7 bell in gold, silver plated 8" flare, right? I thought "Gold tuning slide" but that is listed on the site as TG.

Bill Zehfuss plays a 5YTB. A type 5 yellow bell... TB?

Some more general questions:
Are 9" bells setup for tenors or basses?

How is the production (edit) of the case coming along for Ralph Sauer screwbell horns?

I've seen some 3 bells, are 3 bells no longer offered, were they prototype bells?

What is the distinction between a T7 treatment and a lighter bell. Is it that just the flare is thinner?

Ben, methinks you opened up a can of worms.

Still, we here in the forum appreciate your clarification on these matters.

George

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:31 am

Quote from: gbedinger on Nov 19, 2013, 09:20AMBen, methinks you opened up a can of worms.

Still, we here in the forum appreciate your clarification on these matters.

George

If I ever get a title, I outta change it to "Opener of the can of worms"

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:03 am

Quote from: Matt K on Nov 19, 2013, 09:13AMOkay, so a few of the ones I was curious about... Jim Nova plays a TW47L, is that different than a LW? His bell is 5GLW+, is that slightly heavier than a 5GM? (This is what appears on the "custom" page, but on the artist page it's something different). There it lists his horn (.547) as TII 7YM A5. What is the A5? Similarly Angel Subero plays something listed as an "A1" and Johathan Whitaker an "A4", is that a similar designation?

Greg Spiridopoulos is listed as playing a TII 7GTS8 bell. What does that "T" stand for? Otherwise it's a Type II receiver with a type 7 bell in gold, silver plated 8" flare, right? I thought "Gold tuning slide" but that is listed on the site as TG.

Bill Zehfuss plays a 5YTB. A type 5 yellow bell... TB?

Some more general questions:
Are 9" bells setup for tenors or basses?

How is the production (edit) of the case coming along for Ralph Sauer screwbell horns?

I've seen some 3 bells, are 3 bells no longer offered, were they prototype bells?

What is the distinction between a T7 treatment and a lighter bell. Is it that just the flare is thinner?

OK, this is a lot!

In the order asked...

- TW47L: the L stands for long. LW is the designation for lightweight. The TW47 is available in a longer length, more similar to a Bach 42 slide. This has a slightly different feel and adds stability for some people. If it were a lightweight and long slide, the designation would TW47LWL

- The 5GLW +: the plus stands for a taper in between TI and TII. We would do this when we first started making type 5 bells and for players that wanted a bit wider taper to the throat. This was done by hand and each bell that is "+" is slightly unique. For the record, we no longer make type 5 bells in the TI taper, for production reasons.

- A5, A1, A4: These are varying annealing treatments. Annealing our bells can add some color but the bells often loose some stability, so they usually only work for strong players with strong personalities.

- "T" on a bell designation has to do with how we distribute weight in the bell. The immediately following by a number and/or letter defines what the modification is. We prefer to keep the specific details of these modifications in house.

There is no special designation for silver plate

bell size demarcations come at the very end of the bell description, usually with a space prior to the number

- 5YTB: 5Y is a type 5 bell in yellow brass, TB is as above.

- One can custom order a 9" bell for either tenor or bass. I have a 9" bell for my bass trombone.

- We continue to search for an adequate case for the Ralph Sauer instrument. We have had several promising leads but have not chosen one yet. As one might imagine, it is hard to find a manufacturer/s to dedicate time to such a niche item at an affordable cost. If you are interested in a flat case contact us directly and we can make some recommendations.

- The type 3 bell is a two piece bell where the flare is seamed, like the bell stem. We found that we got much of the same results in playability and color from our type 7 bells with considerably less labor, so we discontinued the type 3.

- As stated above, T7 is one of the ways we treat bells to distribute weight. It is a unique technique and so has its own designation.

I hope that helps.

Best,
Ben

ttf_JimR · Post by **ttf_JimR** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:27 am

Ben
Are the F-attachments for tenor available in a closed configuration vs. an open setup for tighter spaces. If so, is the cost the same?

Thanks
Jim

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:35 am

Quote from: JimR on Nov 19, 2013, 11:27AMBen
Are the F-attachments for tenor available in a closed configuration vs. an open setup for tighter spaces. If so, is the cost the same?

Thanks
Jim

If you use a Thayer, check out the Morandini wrap. AFAIK, the Israeli symphony hall has the trombones butted right up against a wall, so he had to have his thayer wrapped so that it didn't stick out beyond the main tuning slide.

ttf_droffilcal · Post by **ttf_droffilcal** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:28 pm

Ben, have there been any significant builds or experiments with a small tenor with f-attachment ? Something like a 508 w/ F or a 500/508 (or 500/525) dual bore w/ F ?

If so, what have been the results ? Methinks perhaps you have been experimenting along those lines ? What's the scoop ?

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:30 pm

Quote from: JimR on Nov 19, 2013, 11:27AMBen
Are the F-attachments for tenor available in a closed configuration vs. an open setup for tighter spaces. If so, is the cost the same?

Thanks
Jim

All but our Morandini trombone come with one kind of valve wrap which is mostly what we think of as an open valve wrap.

Quote from: Matt K on Nov 19, 2013, 11:35AMIf you use a Thayer, check out the Morandini wrap. AFAIK, the Israeli symphony hall has the trombones butted right up against a wall, so he had to have his thayer wrapped so that it didn't stick out beyond the main tuning slide.

The Morandini wrap is different, but doesn't not work with everyone's hand type. The knuckle that wraps over the hand can make contact, which can be uncomfortable. I recommend trying before you buy. We can make a Morandini trombone with a standard, open valve wrap by request.

Ben

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:43 pm

Quote from: droffilcal on Nov 19, 2013, 12:28PMBen, have there been any significant builds or experiments with a small tenor with f-attachment ? Something like a 508 w/ F or a 500/508 (or 500/525) dual bore w/ F ?

If so, what have been the results ? Methinks perhaps you have been experimenting along those lines ? What's the scoop ?

This is a subject very near and dear to my heart....

We have built a few custom order small bores with F attachment and people have been pleased with the results. It differs from our typical small bores in that the bell is removable. Like all our small bore trombones, the slides are interchangeable, so it can be used with everything from a .485 bore all the way up to a .508 bore. After that you move into medium/large bore territory.

My feeling having played it with many bells is that it is easily better than any other small bore offering with F attachment. Period. I've test driven the one we have in the shop many times on gigs and it performs great once set up with the proper bell, leadpipe, and tuning slide for the style you want to play.

It still has the effects of adding weight to a small, light horn (i.e. a different response, mainly) that effect any horn with a trigger. I would recommend it to anyone wanting the best small bore with F attachment they could get their hands on, but they should not expect it to be the same as a straight tenor trombone. We do make a straight neckpipe that can go with this horn too and it plays like our other small bore offerings (i.e. great), although the same tuning slide & leadpipe feel pretty different between the valved and straight horns.

The biggest drawback seems to be the cost; it is the same price as a large bore with a rotary valve (which stands to reason). The price seems to be the main deterrent to why there haven't been very many of these. One would seem to need a real demand for this instrument for it to achieve greater popularity.

But it is a great horn with real potential int he right hands. If more happens with it I will be sure to let you (all of you!)know.

-Ben

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:59 pm

FWIW, they do make a .508/.525 slide, I have one. It's a T0825GLW that I have with a Tru-bore rotor, TGS tuning slide, and a Bach 36 bell. If I can get the bread for it, I'd love to get up there to try some more bells out with it, although it's hands down the best set of components I've played to date. I highly recommend the 0825 if you're looking for something small with an F attachment. I prefer the F attachment to the straight horn right now, although I've been experimenting with the straight pipe, which is starting to grow on me.

ttf_davidbinder · Post by **ttf_davidbinder** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:09 pm

What is the difference in length between a normal shires slide and the L (equal to Bach length?) ? Would the standard shires slide have much different slide positions than a 42? Does the tuning slide need to be shortened with the longer slide?
Also curious, as I've wanted to try a shires slide on my bach/greenhoe, could you describe the difference in feel with the L slide? (I know it's subjective...)
Thanks!

Quote from: griffinben on Nov 19, 2013, 11:03AM- TW47L: the L stands for long. LW is the designation for lightweight. The TW47 is available in a longer length, more similar to a Bach 42 slide. This has a slightly different feel and adds stability for some people. If it were a lightweight and long slide, the designation would TW47LWL

ttf_Langheck · Post by **ttf_Langheck** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:16 pm

Do you make wraps that are similar to the Morandini wrap for Rotor valves?

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:28 pm

Quote from: davidbinder on Nov 19, 2013, 01:09PMWhat is the difference in length between a normal shires slide and the L (equal to Bach length?) ? Would the standard shires slide have much different slide positions than a 42? Does the tuning slide need to be shortened with the longer slide?
Also curious, as I've wanted to try a shires slide on my bach/greenhoe, could you describe the difference in feel with the L slide? (I know it's subjective...)
Thanks!

I know I can't speak from experience trying the "L" designation, but I have used a standard Shires slide on a Bach 42bell/bach 42 tuning slide/Shires rotor, which worked really well. It does make the positions ever so slightly closer together, but the sound has so much more life and ease of playing. The nickel crook and leadpipe make a HUGE difference, although there are other differences between a Bach and a Shires slide.

It should be noted that I prefer to play the instrument with a slightly lowered first position so I can tune 1st position notes in chords though, and give myself a little slide vibrato for jazz. The regular slide on a Bach section lets you leave the tuning slide pretty much were it would be on a normal horn if you do that. Makes the higher overtones closer together, so slightly harder to hit for me though.

EDIT: Also, sorry I've been posting in this thread so much. Perhaps there is a such thing as too much coffee. But definitely not a such thing as too much zeal for Shires stuff. So it has to be the coffee.

ttf_Mahlerbone · Post by **ttf_Mahlerbone** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:43 pm

I've always wondered what valve type is the most popular? Rotor, axial, or Trubore? And does the answer differ on tenor vs. bass? It wouldn't be the new dual bore valve because they are so new, but wow, that is a nice valve.

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:00 pm

Quote from: davidbinder on Nov 19, 2013, 01:09PMWhat is the difference in length between a normal shires slide and the L (equal to Bach length?) ? Would the standard shires slide have much different slide positions than a 42? Does the tuning slide need to be shortened with the longer slide?
Also curious, as I've wanted to try a shires slide on my bach/greenhoe, could you describe the difference in feel with the L slide? (I know it's subjective...)
Thanks!

The difference in length is pretty slight but length brings big differences in feel. Briefly, the longer length gives a little more security to the slotting. For some people this is too much, for others just right. Generally people that come from Bach trombones like this slide, especially if the rest of the horn is balanced like a Bach (i.e. TII bell, TB style slide, TX tuning slide).

Our long slide length should be similar enough with your Greenhoe Bach that intonation should be pretty similar. many people have purchased our slides for replacements with their Bach bells. The real question is the bell/slide receiver. All things being equal, our slides will fit on a 42 bell with no modification necessary. I do not know about Greenhoe connectors.

I hope this helps.

Ben

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:01 pm

Quote from: Langheck on Nov 19, 2013, 01:16PMDo you make wraps that are similar to the Morandini wrap for Rotor valves?

The Morandini wrap is unique to the axial valve. The ports of the axial do not line up with that of any of our other valves and the wrap would not be compatible.

I hope that helps,
Ben

ttf_Langheck · Post by **ttf_Langheck** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:03 pm

I guess I meant something that looked like it like many German trombones have just to avoid dents on the back of the wrap.

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:35 pm

Quote from: Mahlerbone on Nov 19, 2013, 01:43PMI've always wondered what valve type is the most popular? Rotor, axial, or Trubore? And does the answer differ on tenor vs. bass? It wouldn't be the new dual bore valve because they are so new, but wow, that is a nice valve.

Axial valves are the most popular valve though we have seen much more interest in the past year in rotary valves, particularly the new Dual-Bore valve. Bass trombones are mostly Axial and Tru-Bore, with a much smaller percentage opting for rotors.

No matter what is most popular with others we are most interested in getting you the valve that YOU want.

-Ben

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:43 pm

Quote from: Langheck on Nov 19, 2013, 02:03PMI guess I meant something that looked like it like many German trombones have just to avoid dents on the back of the wrap.

If we had a customer that wanted a custom wrap (and was willing to pay for the time for a custom wrap) we would probably do it. It takes a good amount of time and money to develop the wrap, and then build the tooling to do it right. Until there is a significant demand for closed wrap instruments we will most likely not explore it. But you never know, we often explore different options.

What we have done, is provide people with valves for their own projects. They aren't cheap, and we usually go through a technician, but people have bought our valves for their own wrap on a different instrument.

I hope that helps,
Ben

ttf_Livestrong50 · Post by **ttf_Livestrong50** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:09 pm

I've had the pleasure of playing Mr. Bollinger's own Bollinger Model before, and his old Edwards as well (which also has what I'm about to mention). His "improved linkages" make a huge difference in the throw of the standard axial flow valve. Why is this not an industry standard?

Too much torque not good? Too hard to pull?

ttf_trombone addict · Post by **ttf_trombone addict** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:30 pm

If you are at liberty to answer: what horn combo, size, part, etc is the most profitable or popular? This is just for satisfying my curiosity.

ttf_TromboneMonkey · Post by **ttf_TromboneMonkey** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:50 pm

Quote from: trombone addict on Nov 19, 2013, 05:30PMIf you are at liberty to answer: what horn combo, size, part, etc is the most profitable or popular? This is just for satisfying my curiosity.

I would tend to bet that the Master Series is what it is because of its relative popularity to other options, but I could be entirely off-base.

ttf_Trav1s · Post by **ttf_Trav1s** » Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:51 pm

Quote from: TromboneMonkey on Nov 19, 2013, 06:50PMI would tend to bet that the Master Series is what it is because of its relative popularity to other options, but I could be entirely off-base.

I'd put my money there and I am not a betting man...

ttf_Jvera95 · Post by **ttf_Jvera95** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:32 am

Hey griffinben,
I was wondering what your current prices are for your custom tenor line? Also is it possible to ask for the bell to come unlacquered from you guys when ordering a custom horn?

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:35 am

Quote from: Jvera95 on Nov 20, 2013, 06:32AMHey griffinben,
I was wondering what your current prices are for you custom tenor line? Also is it possible to ask for the bell to come unlacquered from you guys when ordering a custom horn?

http://seshires.com/tenor.html

Quote$3,495 with Straight Neckpipe
$4,795 with Rotary or Axial Flow Valve
$4,995 with TruBore Valve
http://www.seshires.com/faq.html

QuoteWe are happy to provide unlacquered trombone bells on request, but we recommend against leaving trombone valves or slides unfinished.

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:42 am

Quote from: Livestrong50 on Nov 19, 2013, 04:09PMI've had the pleasure of playing Mr. Bollinger's own Bollinger Model before, and his old Edwards as well (which also has what I'm about to mention). His "improved linkages" make a huge difference in the throw of the standard axial flow valve. Why is this not an industry standard?

Too much torque not good? Too hard to pull?

The shorter throw also means more effort to actuate the levers. Not everyone is up to this. These valves also require a bit more care and looking after than a standard axial, not much more but a bit more oiling and care to be sure. Our experience is that most customers are not willing to sacrifice the ease of care for the added performance.

We would be willing to put together a lever with a shorter throw on a different axial as a custom order should someone be interested.

I hope that helps!
Ben

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:48 am

Quote from: trombone addict on Nov 19, 2013, 05:30PMIf you are at liberty to answer: what horn combo, size, part, etc is the most profitable or popular? This is just for satisfying my curiosity.

As I am sure you can appreciate, I am not at liberty to speak publicly about our profits and margins, etc.

I can tell you that our most popular tenor trombone is a 7YLW/Axial/TY/TW47. This combination just plain works for most players. Also, these individual parts appear frequently on other horns in different combinations. The biggest variable seems to be the valve, followed by the bell, then tuning slide.

The Master Series is a new product and we are hopeful its popularity will continue to grow.

I hope that helps,
Ben

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:36 am

7YLW/Axial/TY/TW47 just sounds like a good combo. Kind of "bach-like" but with a lighter bell.

Do a lot of people who come in for a custom horn usually start of with a "standard" spec horn and work from there, or do most come with specific ideas about what kind of options they want?

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:45 am

Quote from: daveyboy37 on Nov 20, 2013, 09:36AM7YLW/Axial/TY/TW47 just sounds like a good combo. Kind of "bach-like" but with a lighter bell.

Do a lot of people who come in for a custom horn usually start of with a "standard" spec horn and work from there, or do most come with specific ideas about what kind of options they want?

And how close are people's opinions compared to what they walk out the door with?

ttf_cigmar · Post by **ttf_cigmar** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:54 am

Quote from: griffinben on Nov 20, 2013, 07:48AM
I can tell you that our most popular tenor trombone is a 7YLW/Axial/TY/TW47. This combination just plain works for most players. Also, these individual parts appear frequently on other horns in different combinations. The biggest variable seems to be the valve, followed by the bell, then tuning slide.

I hope that helps,
Ben

What does the TY refer to? I'm guessing it's the tuning slide, but I haven't seen that label before.

ttf_BassBoneFL · Post by **ttf_BassBoneFL** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:27 am

Hi Ben

Is Steve any closer to the long awaited BII 5 bells? Be sure to duck if you have to ask him!!

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:37 am

Quote from: cigmar on Nov 20, 2013, 09:54AMWhat does the TY refer to? I'm guessing it's the tuning slide, but I haven't seen that label before.
Most likely either Tuning slide Yellow, or Tenor Yellow tuning slide. It's a drawn tuning slide, not a seamed one, which would be TYS, I think.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:04 am

Quote from: daveyboy37 on Nov 20, 2013, 10:37AM Most likely either Tuning slide Yellow, or Tenor Yellow tuning slide. It's a drawn tuning slide, not a seamed one, which would be TYS, I think.

Correct. They're listed on the tenor page, not the tuning slide page.

http://seshires.com/tenor.html

ttf_Livestrong50 · Post by **ttf_Livestrong50** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 8:27 pm

Quote from: griffinben on Nov 20, 2013, 07:42AMThe shorter throw also means more effort to actuate the levers. Not everyone is up to this. These valves also require a bit more care and looking after than a standard axial, not much more but a bit more oiling and care to be sure. Our experience is that most customers are not willing to sacrifice the ease of care for the added performance.

We would be willing to put together a lever with a shorter throw on a different axial as a custom order should someone be interested.

I hope that helps!
Ben

Sorry, you'd be willing to do this for Shires valves? Or do you really mean any axial on the market? I'm not quite certain what you meant. I'd certainly be interested if you're suggesting any valve can have this type of conversion...

Thanks for the info

ttf_SilverBone · Post by **ttf_SilverBone** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:33 pm

Couple questions for the expert:

Is there an upcharge for the long (Bach-length) slides?

I have a TW47L and a TW47G (no L on the latter). I bought the gold-brass slide new, and it's still basically new because I much prefer the longer slide. Does Shires ever have trade-in programs that would allow me to trade the TW47G (+ some cash, presumably) for a TW47GL?

Thanks for offering to answer our questions, Ben!

ttf_modelerdc · Post by **ttf_modelerdc** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:57 pm

I have a few questions about the bass bells and tuning slides. It's generally understood that the regular large bore tenor bell is made on a mandrel with a shape like an 88H, and the TII bells are made on a different mandrel to model the characteristics of a Bach 42. On bass bone I've heard the B1 bell described as conn like, and the BII bell as Bach like but are the mandrels they are made on really copies of a conn ar Bach bells? If so which conn? I would guess that the BI taper is more like a conn 72h, than a 62h, but I don't know if it's based on either one or an original design. I don't think the BII is a copy of the Bach because it plays so differently, I would guess that if it's based on anything it's a slightly stretched Holton flare, if not completely original. Are the B and C tuning slides based on any existing design, or are they new designs developed to match the bells? Thank you

ttf_ah64pilot · Post by **ttf_ah64pilot** » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:06 pm

Quote from: griffinben on Nov 20, 2013, 07:48AMThe Master Series is a new product and we are hopeful its popularity will continue to grow.

I hope that helps,
Ben

I don't know if I have the first one or not but if I have anything to say about it these things are going to sell like hot cakes! This is a bad ass horn! I still can't believe I own a Shires...

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:28 am

Quote from: Livestrong50 on Nov 20, 2013, 08:27PMSorry, you'd be willing to do this for Shires valves? Or do you really mean any axial on the market? I'm not quite certain what you meant. I'd certainly be interested if you're suggesting any valve can have this type of conversion...

Thanks for the info

This would only be for our valve, because that's what we have the parts for! Again, this would be a custom job and we would need to look at the whole lever and stop arm for each valve.

-Ben

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:32 am

Quote from: Matt K on Nov 20, 2013, 09:45AMAnd how close are people's opinions compared to what they walk out the door with?

It completely depends on the individual.

I will say that the people that seem to have the most successful and fulfilling appointments are the ones that have no preconceived notions about the equipment/components but have a very clear idea about how they want an instrument to sound and feel.

Ben

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:35 am

Quote from: daveyboy37 on Nov 20, 2013, 09:36AM7YLW/Axial/TY/TW47 just sounds like a good combo. Kind of "bach-like" but with a lighter bell.

Do a lot of people who come in for a custom horn usually start of with a "standard" spec horn and work from there, or do most come with specific ideas about what kind of options they want?

This is also highly individual. I usually like to start people off on something that is close to their own instrument and work from there. We'll get feedback on our analog of whatever instrument and get feedback and make incremental change. It's a lot like going to the eye doctor; one item and it will tell us a lot about which direction we should go.

-Ben

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:38 am

Quote from: SilverBone on Nov 20, 2013, 09:33PMCouple questions for the expert:

Is there an upcharge for the long (Bach-length) slides?

I have a TW47L and a TW47G (no L on the latter). I bought the gold-brass slide new, and it's still basically new because I much prefer the longer slide. Does Shires ever have trade-in programs that would allow me to trade the TW47G (+ some cash, presumably) for a TW47GL?

Thanks for offering to answer our questions, Ben!

There is no up-charge for a longer length slide, but depending on the popularity (or rarity) it may be considered a custom item.

We are first and foremost a factory producing new instruments, we do not take trade-ins. We do take returns on instruments purchased directly from us and returned within the two-week trial period. If you wanted to make a trade in I would encourage you to speak with one of our many dealers that keep used parts in stock, I'm sure they will be able to help you.

Ben

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:57 am

Quote from: modelerdc on Nov 20, 2013, 09:57PMI have a few questions about the bass bells and tuning slides. It's generally understood that the regular large bore tenor bell is made on a mandrel with a shape like an 88H, and the TII bells are made on a different mandrel to model the characteristics of a Bach 42. On bass bone I've heard the B1 bell described as conn like, and the BII bell as Bach like but are the mandrels they are made on really copies of a conn ar Bach bells? If so which conn? I would guess that the BI taper is more like a conn 72h, than a 62h, but I don't know if it's based on either one or an original design. I don't think the BII is a copy of the Bach because it plays so differently, I would guess that if it's based on anything it's a slightly stretched Holton flare, if not completely original. Are the B and C tuning slides based on any existing design, or are they new designs developed to match the bells? Thank you

I'm sure that you will forgive us if we don't share exact secrets about our bell tapers, but your general observations are in the ballpark.

The more important thing, I think, is how the bells play and which players they work for. While the taper is a key component, there many other things that can be modified to adjust the way a bell plays. Weight, material, treatments, bell diameter...these will all have a tremendous effect and can give very different characteristics to the same taper.

When trying to nail down one kind of manufacturer's bell I find it difficult; which Bach bell are we talking about? There is so much variation (based on all the things mentioned above) at time of manufacture that two different Bach bells will also play and sound completely different.

I believe this really gets to the heart of what we can do (and why I am such a believer in the company). We know what certain variations do and we identify them so that we can get repeatable results.

I hope that helps.
Ben

ttf_jrogers · Post by **ttf_jrogers** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:04 am

Hi Ben,

do you think it is possible to build up a testcenter in europe?
It would be great to the possibility to try all your options without having a trip to U.S.

Regards,
Chris

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:41 am

Quote from: ChrisDE1970 on Nov 21, 2013, 08:04AMHi Ben,

do you think it is possible to build up a testcenter in europe?
It would be great to the possibility to try all your options without having a trip to U.S.

Regards,
Chris

Hello Chris,

Quite honestly, a very limited number of our many options work for the vast majority of people; perhaps 15%-25% of what we are capable of making. If someone needs something outside these norms we are usually able to diagnose it and manufacture it accordingly. I would suggest trying a well stocked dealer and going from there.

Fortunately, we have several well-stocked dealers in Europe that should have many instrument and components for trial. I think a quick search will reveal which would best suit your needs.

In light of this, I do not believe a European development center is in the cards. We are always actively pursuing avenues to make Shires instruments available in as many places as possible, including Europe.

I hope that helps,
Ben

ttf_griffinben · Post by **ttf_griffinben** » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:42 am

Quote from: BassBoneFL on Nov 20, 2013, 10:27AMHi Ben

Is Steve any closer to the long awaited BII 5 bells? Be sure to duck if you have to ask him!!

As far as I know this is on our radar but haven't been moving forward with it yet. There other projects that have been taking (necessary) priority. Rest assured if we make progress I will let you all know!

-Ben