What did minick do?

[Elow]

I always see horns that have been worked on or modified or something done to them by larry minick and i’m not really sure what he does. So i’m just wondering why his work was so good, was he just a good repair tech or what. I’ve heard that conn 100s were bad but when he worked on them they were super good or something. Just trying to understand why horns he worked on are better than they were originally

[Burgerbob]

He was a brass tech in LA that did some pioneering with double valve basses, wraps, etc. Usually pretty good stuff.

He made plenty of horns as well, not on a large scale, but enough that there are some out there. I think most of his work was modification.

I've owned a Minick-modified Holton 180, and played a few other horns. Honestly, I think he did work all over the spectrum- I've played a modified 73H that was really quite awful, sloppy work, nothing aligned, bad solders. I've also seen and played some really stellar stuff. He was not perfect. But he moved the brass world forward a bit from his shop.

[JohnL]

I've played a modified 73H that was really quite awful, sloppy work, nothing aligned, bad solders.

The question then becomes whether the sloppy work was done by Larry Minick or by someone else. I'm inclined to think that someone else worked on it after the fact.

Here's a brief write-up about him:
https://www.trombone.org/articles/view.php?id=76

Understand that he was active prior to the introduction of modular trombones. If you wanted anything beyond the standard offerings from the big companies, it was a custom job - and he was one of the go-to guys here is SoCal for that sort of thing.

He converted singles to doubles, and dependent doubles to independent doubles (indy doubles were a new thing back then). The story is that he did the first open-wrap conversion.

As I understand it, the first batch of 100H's were more or less faithful to his design and are highly sought after. The ones built after that, not so much.

His did a lot of mouthpiece work, too. Much of the Ferguson mouthpiece line (sold by hornguys.com) is based on Minick designs.

[Doug Elliott]

And I think he was a pioneer in interchangeable leadpipes.

During the time he was active there really weren't many (or any) others doing the kind of custom stuff that he did, at that quality level.

[harrisonreed]

He took Conn parts and built custom trombones. He did a lot of custom work in the LA area for musicians that he liked. He apparently was a sort of ... gruff kind of guy, and he would be blunt about if he thought you or your idea was dumb and worth working on.

He designed and made mouthpieces, some of which are available (sort of) as copies under the horn guys Ferguson line. He designed valves, and valve wraps, and leadpipes.

He made really good alto trombones.

If you want to hear his gear, listen to Christian Lindberg's "virtuoso trombone" album (Minnich [sic] 88H setup and mouthpiece), or better yet "The Winter Trombone" (Minnick [sic] alto with Bb attachment and mouthpiece, and Minnick 88H and mouthpiece). 100% Larry Minick gear, and both albums sound insane. "Criminal Trombone" is also the same instruments as Winter.

[LeTromboniste]

My understanding is some (most) horns associated with him are mods of factory-made instruments, some were Frankenbones assembled by him from second-hand parts (with mods) with some of his own parts and some were essentially new horns he made using a mix of factory parts with modifications and parts he made himself.

[harrisonreed]

Interestingly, that article mentions his wife said: She says the Conn/UMI and Yamaha musical instrument companies currently use his three-port rotary valves on trombones. I have no idea about a three port valve. It can't be the axial?

Maybe she was referring to the CL2000 valve and the Bousfield Yamaha valve, which I believe are both internally different from the Minick valve. His valve, and the new Radial Flow valve depicted below, truly have a straight pipe down the middle when in the Bb position. The Minick valve design is the same as this one:



For reference, here is the Bousfield:



And CL2000:



Those all look like they have 4 ports. So does an axial.

[GabrielRice]

He was gruff. I talked with him on the phone once - called to ask if I could try his leadpipes in my Bach 50. He said "no, you can buy them." I asked if I could return the ones I didn't want to keep. He said "no." I said OK, goodbye.

[euphobone]

Just an observation, tangential, but related to the article. It says Minnick died on January 1999, but the article is dated January 1997.

The question then becomes whether the sloppy work was done by Larry Minick or by someone else. I'm inclined to think that someone else worked on it after the fact.

Here's a brief write-up about him:
https://www.trombone.org/articles/view.php?id=76

Understand that he was active prior to the introduction of modular trombones. If you wanted anything beyond the standard offerings from the big companies, it was a custom job - and he was one of the go-to guys here is SoCal for that sort of thing.

He converted singles to doubles, and dependent doubles to independent doubles (indy doubles were a new thing back then). The story is that he did the first open-wrap conversion.

As I understand it, the first batch of 100H's were more or less faithful to his design and are highly sought after. The ones built after that, not so much.

His did a lot of mouthpiece work, too. Much of the Ferguson mouthpiece line (sold by hornguys.com) is based on Minick designs.

[Conn100HGuy]

As I understand it, the first batch of 100H's were more or less faithful to his design and are highly sought after. The ones built after that, not so much.

What are considered the "first batch"? My 100H was built in 1991, has all of the Minick design elements and plays great.

[Bach5G]

I had both: a Minick and a Conn 100H.

The Minick played flat and had to be cut down. The slide on the 100H was unrepairably bad.

[FOSSIL]

I had both: a Minick and a Conn 100H.

The Minick played flat and had to be cut down. The slide on the 100H was unrepairably bad.

So you liked them both then.....

Chris

[Bach5G]

I got tremendous satisfaction selling them.

[FOSSIL]

I got tremendous satisfaction selling them.

Chris

[harrisonreed]

People also used to think "The Blues Brothers" was a funny movie, but if you watch it today you realize just how high people were back then...so maybe it is more of a mixed bag situation.

[andym]

He could be pretty direct. I talked to him once with an idea for a modification of a really nice playing Conn 50H (seriously it has a great bell). He told me it wasn’t worth doing. I’ve come to understand that he was right. I moved onto a Bach 36B and a couple of Shires instead. But I wouldn’t mind owning a Minick just for the mystique.

[brassmedic]

Interestingly, that article mentions his wife said: She says the Conn/UMI and Yamaha musical instrument companies currently use his three-port rotary valves on trombones. I have no idea about a three port valve. It can't be the axial?

Maybe she was referring to the CL2000 valve and the Bousfield Yamaha valve, which I believe are both internally different from the Minick valve. His valve, and the new Radial Flow valve depicted below, truly have a straight pipe down the middle when in the Bb position. The Minick valve design is the same as this one:



For reference, here is the:



And :



Those all look like they have 4 ports. So does an axial.

I suspect she was talking about the number of internal passages, not the number of external openings. I haven't seen one for a long time, but if I remember right, the Minick valve had a straight passage through the center of the rotor and two separate curved passages on either side of the straight passage. There was no forked, or "Y" passage, as in the CL2000 or Bousfield valves. I don't think such a thing existed at the time.

[harrisonreed]

Yes, that first image has an internal setup that looks like this:


) ) | | ( (

[tbonesullivan]

From my understanding, a lot of the work Minick did was for the LA area professional market. While he did use a lot of off the shelf parts, he also did fabricate some items, like the Beryllium Bronze bells on some custom bass trombones. Noah Gladstone at the Brass Ark would probably be the one person to ask about Minick, as he has seen, played, and sold quite a number of Minick horns.

The valve that Minick made was from what Gladstone said, pretty much identical to the Meinlschmidt Radial Flow valve, and he may have been the first person to look into a rotary valve design with a straight shot through the middle.

One of the mods I have seen a lot of is the splitting of triggers and opening up of wraps on dependent bass trombones. All of this however was done to meet the needs of players. He also designed and made some mouthpieces, and probably did a lot of pretty standard work that no one really wrote home about. Most of what you hear about is the custom modification work he did.

[Bonearzt]

Just an observation, tangential, but related to the article. It says Minnick died on January 1999, but the article is dated January 1997.

[/quote]

Hey Raul, I too thought that time discrepancy was interesting....


Eric

[LIBrassCo]

The cl2000 valve is the minnick valve, there's an old photo of him in his shop with it right next to him, clearly the same valve.

And yes, a lot of minnicks work was fugly. Was not known for fit and finish thats for sure. However, other horns that came out of his shop were done quite well.

[harrisonreed]

No it's not. The internal rotor is different. Straight tube through the middle. It's the same as the valve on the brass ark trombone.

CL2000:



Minnick:



You'll notice that the middle tube in the minnick is not aY piece, but a straight tube. So it's shaped like this inside:

)| |(

[HawaiiTromboneGuy]

One of these days I’ll have to get me a Minick horn. Never had the opportunity to try one yet.

[WGWTR180]

The cl2000 valve is the minnick valve, there's an old photo of him in his shop with it right next to him, clearly the same valve.

And yes, a lot of minnicks work was fugly. Was not known for fit and finish thats for sure. However, other horns that came out of his shop were done quite well.

To say that a LOT of Minick's work was Fugly is incorrect. Some maybe. Much of what HE did was beautifully done. I know that there's one bass trombone being sold somewhere that the seller claims to be a Minick because of a lever but indeed is not. One has to do their homework.

[Bach5G]

I had a Minick “100H” for a while. I thought it played played a little flat. I sold it to a fellow who was with the touring Duke E orch. He tried it out during the sound check and I could see him fussing with it. His conclusion: it played flat. He bought it anyway and had it cut down a bit.

[CalgaryTbone]

Minnick was one of the first repair guys to venture into open wraps, detachable valve sections, and removable leadpipes. Also, the making of leadpipes of his own design, and experimenting with bracing on stock horns like Conns and Bachs.

These were new innovations when I was a student, but people were already experimenting with the stock horns by swapping bells and slides. Often, they'd own a straight and trigger bell section (8H/88H, 42/42B) for different music. Players looking for an 88H at a music store would get all of the store's stock of that model in the room where they were trying the horns, and would swap parts until they found the best slide/bell combo. Stores seldom have the stock of a particular instrument anymore, and often there are serial numbers on slide and bell, so they don't encourage you to swap parts anymore.

In some ways, Minnick's innovations started the trend of modular horns that are very common now. If you want to experiment with parts, it's nice to not have to do major surgery to an instrument.

Jim Scott

[mrdeacon]

The cl2000 valve is the minnick valve, there's an old photo of him in his shop with it right next to him, clearly the same valve.

And yes, a lot of minnicks work was fugly. Was not known for fit and finish thats for sure. However, other horns that came out of his shop were done quite well.

Like most techs he definitely did quick jobs and sometimes did some pretty weird stuff because he was short on parts. I have a Minick Bass slide that came with my full Minick bass which has parts from at least 4 manufacturers in it. The slide looked terrible but played pretty well!

His A+ work was spotless though. When he paid attention to detail he really nailed it.

[harrisonreed]

He did this ^

What a gem of a video. Feel like I sort of met the guy. Also, bring back wax paper and brown bags for lunch. Save the earth.

[ithinknot]

What a gem of a video. Feel like I sort of met the guy. Also, bring back wax paper and brown bags for lunch. Save the earth.

Wonderful!

Reed 2020: A banana in every violin case

[MinickLover]

I'm surprised that I couldn't find any informations about Minick Valve.
This is the picture I saw at the musical shop in Japan.
I think this valve works effectively more than other valves.

[harrisonreed]

Looks less efficient than the minnick design used in the brass ark horn.

[Elow]

I’m a little confused, where is the straight pathway? All i see on the actual horn is bends

[BGuttman]

I’m a little confused, where is the straight pathway? All i see on the actual horn is bends

The straight pathway is used when you press the valve. It goes straight through into the attachment and the tight bend is the return. With the valve out of operation the tight bend connects the receiver to the gooseneck.

[Elow]

Oh ok thanks

[Jimprindle]

Getting back to the original topic, “What did Minick do”. He worked on my horns many times through the 1970s up to around 1980 I think. He originally made my Conn 72H a double trigger F/G/Eb open wrap instrument in 1971. Besides that, I went to him several times for various repairs—replacing the 72H yellow brass bell with a 71H red brass bell, and various other things.

Towards the end of his stay in LA and before his move to Cambria, I took my Elkhart 1960s Bach 50B to make a detachable double trigger (Bb/F/D) an open wrap. In his cantankerous way, he would only do it if I brought him parts from the same era that the 50 B was built. I was able to find those at the Brass Lab in New York and he did the work. But before he started, he asked in his grumpy way, “Do you want me to fix the #%*$& job that the guy did on fixing the bell brace?”.

A few months before, a bell brace had come loose and a guy reattached it and re-soldered it for me, I asked Larry what he was talking about. He pulled out the tuning pipe and said “Look down there, it’s not round it’s oval there’s too much tension between the bell brace and the bell, it’s canceling out the vibrations of the bell.” I had noticed since I had it fixed that the trombone sounded different from when I had bought it.

I asked Larry does that make a difference? He said of course, I have to do this all the time with horns that are brought to me, usually I don’t tell people about it I just do it it Has to be completely round and flexible otherwise the bell won’t vibrate as it should.

He did the work and I was amazed at how much better it sounded after he reattached the bell and made it more flexible to the bell brace. I asked him what other things he did that were kind of magical that he didn’t tell people. He said one of the big things is the neck pipe. A lot of times it is not smoothly opening up from the hand slide to the tuning slide. He said he would stretch a few things here and there to make it open up a little more smoothly.

Another thing he said when he was making mouthpieces was to make sure that the backbore was absolutely straight. He said he threw a lot of blanks away that he did not drill correctly and he thought that that was one of the big problems with manufactured mouthpieces. I bought several and sold several of the MinickV and MinickL mouthpieces and that was the one thing I did notice about them. They were totally straight. You can tell if one side of the mouthpiece backbore is a little thinner than another side. Later, when I got a Jeff Reynolds Ferguson mouthpiece, I thought it was really good until I noticed I had to clock it when I put it in because of the fact it was not drilled completely straight in the backbore. The Ferguson LS I got later was and it is a much better mouthpiece because of it.

And I had other colleagues of mine that frequently went to Minick and they told me that he had a little special touches beyond that. How he soldered some thing, how he cleaned up something, how he straightens something—little minor things that a craftsman would know how to do rather than just bang out a dent.

One of the things I remember is he told me he absolutely hated aligning trombone slides, drove him nuts. Usually told me to take it to somebody else. He said he would take out a dent but that’s it. Actually, he said that with a lot more four letter words than I’m going to put here

[RJMason]

I just got a .500 Minick from Noah at the BrassArk and it is amazing. The tone is so pure and resonant, but the sound is so malleable. The horn is as light as a Martín Urbie Green, but feels solid like an old Conn. Definitely has some modified conn parts, but I’m not so sure about the bell. It looks like he made it himself, has a handmade quality to it. It doesn’t look like the factory made 6H I played for several years, maybe he respun a factory bell and messed with it. It’s an early horn with an Earl Williams handgrip instead of his own design and Herrick leadpipe. Partials feel closer together than my other horns so I’m adjusting but it’s really brass alchemy to me. I’ve been disappointed by a lot of other “legendary” vintage horns and custom shops in the past, but this horn lives up to the hype.

[yeodoug]

Just an observation, tangential, but related to the article. It says Minnick died on January 1999, but the article is dated January 1997.

While looking for some information about Larry Minick, I found this thread. Just clear up this question, Larry Minick was born on August 13, 1945 and died on January 12, 1999.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/300 ... vid-minick

-Douglas Yeo

[Posaunus]

While looking for some information about Larry Minick, I found this thread. Just clear up this question, Larry Minick was born on August 13, 1945 and died on January 12, 1999.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/300 ... vid-minick

Actually born on August 13, 1943 and died on January 12, 1999 (age 55), per the article.

Still lots of folks around Southern California who knew (and had work done by) Larry Minick.

[SackbuttRobert]

I have a minick hackbut made by a staffer, Dick Hansen. It's a circumcised Beuscher with my name engraved on the bell. Dick's daughter played alto sackbut in my band.

[harrisonreed]

I have a minick hackbut made by a staffer, Dick Hansen. It's a circumcised Beuscher with my name engraved on the bell. Dick's daughter played alto sackbut in my band.

I never realized Dick had worked for Larry.

Being from MA, I had brought my 88H to Dick to have the F attachment brace resoldered and the slide aligned. He just took a torch to the the hand brace on a level stone, and the tubes magically aligned. He did a great job! And maybe it was just because I was young, but I couldn't believe the great price -- beyond affordable.

He had a tuba that someone had encased in concrete that he was excavating....

[Elow]

Does anyone know what minick based his bass bells off of and how similar they are

[harrisonreed]

I think he mostly bought unmarked bells straight from Elkhart

[Elow]

I’m talking about his beryllium bells

[harrisonreed]

I’m talking about his beryllium bells

I believe that he had Conn mandrels that he used when he did make his own bells. That is the extent of what I know about that though.

[SackbuttRobert]

I have a minick hackbut made by a staffer, Dick Hansen. It's a circumcised Beuscher with my name engraved on the bell. Dick's daughter played alto sackbut in my band.

I never realized Dick had worked for Larry.

Being from MA, I had brought my 88H to Dick to have the F attachment brace resoldered and the slide aligned. He just took a torch to the the hand brace on a level stone, and the tubes magically aligned. He did a great job! And maybe it was just because I was young, but I couldn't believe the great price -- beyond affordable.

He had a tuba that someone had encased in concrete that he was excavating....

Dick used to answer the phone at Minick's like this, "Minick's, Dick here." I don't know that he knew he was somewhat famous for that.

[Kbiggs]

Dick used to answer the phone at Minick's like this, "Minick's, Dick here." I don't know that he knew he was somewhat famous for that.

It’s probably just the twelve-year-old boy in me, but that’s funny.

[harrisonreed]

He knew what he was saying. There is no way the guy I know didn't know what he was saying. That's pretty funny

[SackbuttRobert]

A buddy of mine told me about it and I had reason to call the store up (related to my sackbut conversion) and he definitely did it.

[timbone]

So I got to know Larry just by phone- and he worked on two Conn’s of mine- my 59 8h and my 21 70h. I got his voicemail when I wanted to send him the 70, and I described what I wanted done to it and sent it off (I was in san diego at the time) two days later he called me and sounded astonished- he had never seen a conn like that and thought it was a prototype. I wanted it playable, so I wanted a real trigger on it (it had the leather thumb cradle and clock spring rotor which I still have) and he would not mess with the leadpipe for fear of cracking it (it was a euro shank like a euphonium). So there it is- its a horn that really plays! So I would call Larry up and we would just talk about cars and also he was really interested in the conn engravers, so I sent him my copy of margaret downy bank’s book on conn stencils and he loved that. Once I asked him where I could find a 62H (which is another story) but right away he said call jeff reynolds, here’s his number......so I ended up spending a couple of hours at jeff’s place which was a lot of fun. Now jeff was a curmudgeon with me (not larry) until I went to see him. Larry told me how much he wanted for the horn, so I emptied my bank account (lol) and when it was time I offered him the money and I think he was Impressed that I didn't try to lowball him so he asked me if I needed a mouthpiece and preceded to open a cabinet and take a minnick L from about a dozen of his personal stock and put it in the case. Later, I tried to play that piece but I just couldn’t- I’m a tenor player and playing a middle c was a challenge. I ended up trading it for a bell section. Oh well- I know where it is I think lol. Meanwhile my heart was palpitating as I opened the 62 case; it was basically new because lint from the case was still stuck to the slide which hadn’t been broken in. I had great memories of that horn as my first teacher played one and I remember his sound and the beautiful red bell and there it was, right before me! Lastly, jeffery was playing an old bach 45 or 50, and had no interest in a conn. Later there is the la phil section all playing conns on the back page of the itf journal! Jeff did have a bell section that he and larry were working on, code named the sextapuss. It was one valve with six ports and if you moved it one way it was one key and the other way- another key. So a double bass on one valve- and the trigger was sort of like a whammy bar! Sorry for the long read here, next time I’d like to talk about my time with Art Pearlman.

[Peacemate]

Jeff did have a bell section that he and larry were working on, code named the sextapuss. It was one valve with six ports and if you moved it one way it was one key and the other way- another key. So a double bass on one valve- and the trigger was sort of like a whammy bar!

I realized a while ago that there are some valve types that wouldn't require any modification to the internals to achieve this, only more external paths and more rotation. Might need to finish that valve-writeup I was working on for a while, complete with patent numbers for a multitude of valve types.