Latzsch Trombones

[Trav1s]

Any players of Latzsch trombones here on TC? If so which model?

I have been smitten with the SL240 since I played it at ITF 2018. Gold brass bell, Rotax valve, and amazing craftsmanship. Everything I love about a Conn 88H with a twist. The SL-240 is part of the Conservatory line but there was NOTHING about it that felt like a student horn. I played their other horns which were nice - the carbon fiber valves were light and fast.

Any thoughts or insights would be appreciated.

[Burgerbob]

The "student" horns they sell are a different breed than you expect with an American student model. They're aimed at advanced young kids and college students, not beginners.


And I agree, I felt like the student tenor I played at ITF 2017 was a bit better than their top model equivalent.

[Trav1s]

Perhaps the language of a student horn does not capture what I was trying to say. The horn was every bit an equal to any of the fixed construction horns I tried that day and quite an amazing horn at that price point too. The Rotax valve pretty much sealed the deal for me.

[Finetales]

I've tried the SL710 alto, SL570 bass, and the bass trumpet, and they were all top notch. The alto was a work of art in sound, response, and appearance. The bass was an ultra-lightweight German bass that responded instantly and had a lovely soloistic sound. The bass trumpet was excellent, only bettered in my experience by a Thein (which is the best brass instrument of any type I've ever played).

I tried a contra too, but I didn't have a contra mouthpiece so I felt like I didn't really get a proper sense of the instrument.

[Basbasun]

I played the Swedish Radio symphony orchestras Latzsch contra for some years, fantastic instrument. Actually what id miss from those years is tha very instrument. I did try the Thein contra, and their bass. No I did not like them. I also tried their sackbuts, did not fall in love with those either.

[Trav1s]

Thank you for all of the responses. Now to figure out how to fund the purchase of the SL240...

[Johnstad]

I tried their Contra at ITF 2018. What a fantastic instrument. Played so nicely.

[Trav1s]

A friend said the same thing about the contra but I never tried it. I was too distracted but the SL240.

[bbocaner]

I briefly owned one, I think it was a SL-310? I LOVED the way it played but I could not get along with the curved slide brace which I find to be extremely uncomfortable, and sold it on. I visited Herr Nienaber at his workshop in Bremen in 2017 and he was very kind to accommodate my visit. He said they could easily make one without the curved brace, but I ended up finding a great deal on a used Thein Classic that I went with instead. I love the Rotax valve which is one of the smoothest most luxurious rotary valves out there, but the Laetzsch carbon valve is spectacular, perhaps one of the only rotary valves which I find to be even better than the Rotax valve. Their current bass trumpet design is bizarre, but it plays great.

[paulyg]

I have an old Latzsch model Kuhn alto- which has been much loved AND maligned.

It's the best sounding alto you can get, bar none.

It also rejects American small shank mouthpieces like they're the wrong blood type. Plug in a 6-1/2AL, a 12C, a 15A, and the partials "line up" as crooked as can be. This particular quirk led a lot of the western players to have their horns cut down, so at least they'd have room to pull the slide in when the fourth partial Bb went down to A-not-so-#. The Yamaha 671 (I think? The old dual-bore one) and the Schilke altos are copies of such cut-down instruments, with an altered tuning slide taper.

However... plug in a german mouthpiece and it's the best alto trombone ever made. Some people like Glasls, but this is a horn you can play in an orchestra. Unbelievable instruments.

[Trav1s]

After a month and multiple attempts, I finally got a response from Latzsch. They no longer make the SL240 tenor.

[heinzgries]

The Yamaha 671 (I think? The old dual-bore one) and the Schilke altos are copies of such cut-down instruments, with an altered tuning slide taper.

Schilke altos?

[chromebone]

They still make the SL-242 which is the pro version of the Sl-240. I tried a 242 at Dillon Music a few years ago and thought it was absolutely phenomenal. It’s really expensive, though.

[Trav1s]

I also played the SL-242 at the same time. Great horn for sure but way beyond what I need. I did not care for the crazy wrap or the carbon valve either. I'd consider one if I had unlimited cash.

[bbocaner]

I owned a SL-310 briefly. It was a beautifully made instrument and it played wonderfully. I really liked the carbon (not carbon fiber) valve and thought it was one of the smoothest and most luxurious rotary valves I've ever played. Ultimately, I did not like the curved slide grip as I thought it worked against me providing proper leverage to balance the instrument and was ultimately extremely tiring to hold for more than a few minutes at a time. I also visited Herr Nienaber at his shop in Bremen later and tried additional models (they can make them without the curved slide grip on request) and thought everything was wonderful. They are very nicely made instruments, highest quality.

[RustBeltBass]

Allow me to sing Mr. Nienaber’s praises. One of my Edwards bass trombones is currently in his shop in Bremen, receiving some much needed TLC as this is one of my favorite set ups.

I first met him under not fun circumstances in 2004 in his shop in Bremen. A teenager at the prep division of a conservatory I had gotten my hands on an out of this world 42B (never should have sold this horn!!!!). That Bach was my everything until I had an accident involving the outer slide falling out and down a set of stone stairs, I will leave it at that….

I brought the heavily damaged slide to a very respected repair shop and was told that getting this repaired will be borderline impossible. I was crushed but since summer vacation in Northern Germany, near Bremen, with the family was looming, my Dad suggested we bring this to the famous Lätzsch store. It was summer time and not pretty busy in the sites, I guess, because Mr. Nienaber looked at the slide and recommended 4 hours worth of sight seeing in Bremen which we happily did. When we came back, the side was like new, hardly any sign of repairs, and side action was completely restored.

He has helped me several times since, including adding a second valve to a single valve German trombone, and helping finding a fitting model when I was holding a fellowship with Dresden Staatskapelle which required me to play on a German trombone.

He is the real deal, and, I am convinced of that, among the best repairman in all Europe.

[MStarke]

For me the Lätzsch contra is clearly the best available contra in the market.
Also every Lätzsch bass trombone (most of them the Cieslik model from my knowledge) that I heard (and played some of them) sounded and/or played fantastic.

And I have heard multiple stories of the level of craftmanship reg repairs.
In Bremen there is also Thein, close to Bremen there is Kromat, also a great (!) brass workshop.
It's not too far from Hamburg, but still I am missing a shop on that level here...

[Burgerbob]

For me the Lätzsch contra is clearly the best available contra in the market.

[Retrobone]

One of my old Lätzsch Modell Kuhn trombones from the early 60's next to a Holton Tr 150 from 1975.

I love the old German style Lätzsch trombones. I have three of these. I'll post a new picture of all of them tomorrow.

There is a link between these two instruments. I wonder if anyone here knows what I'm getting at?

[Retrobone]

Pictured are three Lätzsch Modell Kuhn trombones. Left to right. Mid 50's Weite 2, early 60's Weite 4, and mid 50's Weite 4. The one on the right I bought already in Australia in the mid 1980's. It was languishing in a store room at a school in Sydney. Apparently having been bequeathed to the school by a German emigré trombonist who had formerly taught there. I bought it for a very reasonable price and was probably the only person who knew that this was a top-level professional instrument.
Explanation about the description Weite. It means "width" and refers to the bore size of the trombones. The Lätzsch German trombones were/are produced with 5 different (dual) bore sizes. Same design but with increasing bore sizes. Weite 1 is the narrowest and Weite 5 is the widest. Generally, the orchestral 1st trombone would play on a Weite 2 instrument (bore 12.4/12.9 mm). The second on Weite 3 or 4, and the bass on Weite 5. It is a logical system. In Vienna however, for years the whole section played on Weite 4 instruments. Different tradition. Nowadays this German style trombone is not found in the Vienna Phil, and is also out of favour in German orchestras as well, although many bass trombonists in Germany still play the Lätzsch German style bass (often the Cieslik model)

These below are the Lätzsch bore sizes. Other builders use their own preferred measurements. Markus Leuchter offer three bore sizes, for instance, and Helmut Voigt four.

Weite 1 11.9/12.4 mm (.468/.488")
Weite 2 12.4/12.9 mm (.488/.507")
Weite 3 12.9/13.4 mm (.507/.527")
Weite 4 13.4/13.9 mm (.527/.547")
Weite 5 13.9/14.4 mm (.547/.567")

So we have smaller bore sizes than American-style trombones, but wider bell throats and diameters (23cm). Also snake decorations on the bell and slide bows, and the nickel silver rim (1cm on Lätzsch trombones). All three and in Goldbrass. The middle trombone has nickel outer slides (not lightweight...), slide crook also gold brass on all three. All three have the long water key... a favourite option of mine. Traditionally the German slide is longer than a standard American trombone. You can see from my last post with the Holton that the overall length is shorter on the German trombone. Shorter and wider bell section accounts for this.

[Tbarh]

One of my old Lätzsch Modell Kuhn trombones from the early 60's next to a Holton Tr 150 from 1975.

I love the old German style Lätzsch trombones. I have three of these. I'll post a new picture of all of them tomorrow.

There is a link between these two instruments. I wonder if anyone here knows what I'm getting at?

Does the link between the two Horns have something to do with the Vienna philharmonic ,maybe ?

[Retrobone]

Does the link between the two Horns have something to do with the Vienna philharmonic ,maybe ?

Bingo!

[hornbuilder]

Tim,
Would you mind comparing slide dimensions?
Specifically, the length of the outer tubes. Then maybe a photo of the 2 slides next to each other.
Cheers!

[slipmo]

Absolutely stunning Tim! And nice to see you here!!!!

[Retrobone]

I thought I'd resurrect this thread because i made recording and video using the old trombones discussed and pictured above. Enjoy!