Trombone Chat Brass Choir Christmas Video

Mikebmiller · Post by **Mikebmiller** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:58 am

Ladies, gents, and bass trombone players,

As most of us have nowhere to play these days, I would like to propose that we do a collaborative video with members of this forum. I was thinking of some sort of Christmas bone choir tune. I have actually gotten pretty good at audio and video editing during this time and I am willing to put it all together. What we need is a nice trombone choir arrangement of some sort of Christmas tune and any number of players who want to be part of the project. I would need to cap it at about 20-30 as my computer really starts slowing down when I get more tracks than that.

So, does anyone have suggestions for some music? Something with 8-12 parts would be nice. And I would need either a midi backing track or a recording of a previous performance for people to listen to while doing their video.

So if you are interested in participating, post up and let's get something going.

[Edit from BGuttman]

Upload your finished videos here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

[/Edit]

Post by **BGuttman** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:15 am

See if you can find the Jingle Bones books. Sorta like Tuba Christmas but for trombones. One of our old Forum members used to run the one in Indiana.

I tend to like 4 part books (a la Tuba Christmas). I had something by Kjos called "Christmas Time". 3 of the 4 parts are available in bass clef. The 2nd part is only available in treble clef Bb or Eb (and C). I used to have an 8 part choir playing these in the lobby of my orchestra's Christmas concert.

Post by **Bonearzt** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:35 am

I'll give it a shot!

Mikebmiller · Post by **Mikebmiller** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:38 am

Bruce,

I guess it depends on how many people want to play. If we have a bunch, I would rather have something with 8 parts or more.

Mikebmiller · Post by **Mikebmiller** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:42 am

Here is some 8 part stuff. Has anyone played any of these?

https://mcgintymusic.com/product-catego ... mas-music/

SwissTbone · Post by **SwissTbone** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:03 am

I have some stuff I could share. But nothing for 8 bass trombones. 8 trombones, yes.

Mikebmiller · Post by **Mikebmiller** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:12 am

8 bass bones would be a mess. 6 tenor and 2 bass is a nice mix.

Post by **BGuttman** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:16 am

SwissTbone wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:03 am I have some stuff I could share. But nothing for 8 bass trombones. 8 trombones, yes.

With a choir of just bass trombones we could look at the Tuba Christmas stuff. Still 4 part, though.

hyperbolica · Post by **hyperbolica** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:19 am

Sounds like fun!

Post by **BGuttman** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:27 am

Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:12 am 8 bass bones would be a mess. 6 tenor and 2 bass is a nice mix.

How about alto doubling the top lines?

I'd be interested, though I haven't done this before. Willing to play the parts that nobody wants (generally 3rd in a 4 part, or 5th and 6th in an 8 part).

Mikebmiller · Post by **Mikebmiller** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:24 pm

I have become a bit of a guru on split screen music videos lately. I have done 4 for my community band and am working on several more. Once you get the process figured out, it's not that hard. The hardest part is picking the music and getting people to make their videos.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:41 pm

I'll play alto if there's an alto part! But I can play whatever part is leftover too. There are many amazing players who could do a better job here on the forum.

LeTromboniste · Post by **LeTromboniste** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:06 pm

I'd be happy to to play as well unless there's too many of us. Always happy for opportunities to take my modern trombone out of its case!

Post by **BGuttman** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:25 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:41 pm ...There are many amazing players who could do a better job here on the forum.

Too bad I'm not one of them

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:57 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:25 pm
harrisonreed wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:41 pm ...There are many amazing players who could do a better job here on the forum.
Too bad I'm not one of them

Don't beat yourself up, Bruce. I'm sure almost anyone here has better swing chops than I do. And legit chops. And you name it...

mahlertwo · Post by **mahlertwo** » Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:08 pm

https://musescore.com/user/12682446/scores/6178785

Here's a quartet arrangement of White Christmas that I did. I could probably expand it to 8 parts (Working on a 12-part arrangement of a video game theme, in fact). Short and not too difficult.

vetsurginc · Post by **vetsurginc** » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:19 am

MStarke · Post by **MStarke** » Thu Oct 29, 2020 8:36 am

Would also love to take part!

Any part would be great.

Thanks for your initiative!

Mikebmiller · Post by **Mikebmiller** » Fri Oct 30, 2020 9:41 am

Looks like we have plenty of interest. So now it is just a matter of finding the right music. My ideal tune would be something with at least 8 parts, preferably in a jazzy style and even with a rhythm section. I have a piano and drummer that I can probably get to help. So post up your suggestions for music.

sungfw · Post by **sungfw** » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:18 pm

mahlertwo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 10:08 pm https://musescore.com/user/12682446/scores/6178785

Here's a quartet arrangement of White Christmas that I did. I could probably expand it to 8 parts (Working on a 12-part arrangement of a video game theme, in fact). Short and not too difficult.

Just a note that the copyright for White Christmas is still in force,* so performance and mechanical royalties (not to mention permission to arrange) are in play with that song.

* US copyright law fixes the copyright term for works created by an individual at the life of the composer plus 70 years post-obit. Irving Berlin, the composer of White Christmas, died in 1989, so the song remains under copyright until 2059.

Mikebmiller · Post by **Mikebmiller** » Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:28 pm

It has been my experience that you can post copyrighted stuff on FB and YouTube all day long as long as you don't try to monetize it.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:02 am

Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:28 pm It has been my experience that you can post copyrighted stuff on FB and YouTube all day long as long as you don't try to monetize it.

As long as the original (and you arrange it yourself) or an official arrangement is on the YouTube list, you can pretty much do whatever you want with it on that platform. Pretty sure White Christmas would be on that list.

Posting your arrangement for others to print as above, or showing it legibly in the video is illegal, however.

mahlertwo · Post by **mahlertwo** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:29 pm

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:02 am
Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Fri Oct 30, 2020 6:28 pm It has been my experience that you can post copyrighted stuff on FB and YouTube all day long as long as you don't try to monetize it.
As long as the original (and you arrange it yourself) or an official arrangement is on the YouTube list, you can pretty much do whatever you want with it on that platform. Pretty sure White Christmas would be on that list.

Posting your arrangement for others to print as above, or showing it legibly in the video is illegal, however.

Harrison, I know you're in the military, but would you mind not turning me in?

Finetales · Post by **Finetales** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:50 pm

Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:24 pmThe hardest part is [...] getting people to make their videos.

Yuppppppppp. This 100%. I'd pick a reasonably-sized piece and invite everyone in the world to sign up. The way these things usually go, if 80 people say they're in, you'll be lucky to get 8 submissions by the end of 2020. But maybe TromboneChat will be better than the average Internet collab recording project...only one way to find out!

And I'm down to play as well, on whatever brass instruments you like. I'd be happy to arrange one of my old Christmas multitracks (or the 2020 one that I haven't recorded yet) for a bunch of trombones if anyone's interested.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 5:15 pm

mahlertwo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:29 pm
harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 1:02 am

As long as the original (and you arrange it yourself) or an official arrangement is on the YouTube list, you can pretty much do whatever you want with it on that platform. Pretty sure White Christmas would be on that list.

Posting your arrangement for others to print as above, or showing it legibly in the video is illegal, however.
Harrison, I know you're in the military, but would you mind not turning me in?

I wrote that just trying to look out for everyone here. I'm not going to "turn anyone in", lol. I don't care, I would never do that, especially for something that is so innocently motivated, and I'm not a lawyer or law enforcement professional. I'm just very interested in how copyrights and licensing works, because it's actually not hard to do things the right way, but also because the law contradicts itself in our favor. For example:

1. Arranging a piece that is under copyright onto printed or digital sheet music is illegal. You need permission from the copyright holder. No one can get in trouble for this unless they make the arrangements available.

2. You can record any piece of music as an audio recording in the US as long as it has already been released and you pay the obligatory mechanical license fee which is like $.095 per recording (ie CD or download) you make/sell, and you don't even have to ask permission. You are even allowed to arrange the song to fit the instrumentation and setting and your goal as an artist as long as you don't change the lyrics or make major changes to the structure of the piece. That's crazy, because technically your arrangement is illegal when you print it out, but becomes legal(ish) after you record your tune and pay the mechanical fee. You definitely still can't make this arrangement available or sell it or claim any rights over that version as printed music, and your CD must credit the original copyright holder and use the actual song information.

3. Putting anything in number 2 above to a video and making it available or using the original piece from any legal CD or recorded version in a video is also illegal, unless you pay the sync license. There is no obligatory fee, and you can't get the license without asking. The copyright holder can say no.

4. Youtube is the solution - if the song is on their list, you can pretty much do anything in #2 and #3 and they have deals to take care of the licensing. You can arrange a piece (but not make that arrangement "available"), you can record it, you can put it synced with a video, you can even just rip the original piece off the CD and put it in your video. The copyright holders don't care, because YouTube will monetize the video and put ads on it. Then they pay the copyright holders, and if the video is popular enough they pay you too if you're monetized. This is how Chris Bill records all of the arrangements he does.

So, for this project, you're 100% good as long as the parts aren't publicly made available or sold, and we complete the project.

Mikebmiller · Post by **Mikebmiller** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 7:48 pm

Finetales wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:50 pm
Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:24 pmThe hardest part is [...] getting people to make their videos.
Yuppppppppp. This 100%. I'd pick a reasonably-sized piece and invite everyone in the world to sign up. The way these things usually go, if 80 people say they're in, you'll be lucky to get 8 submissions by the end of 2020. But maybe TromboneChat will be better than the average Internet collab recording project...only one way to find out!

And I'm down to play as well, on whatever brass instruments you like. I'd be happy to arrange one of my old Christmas multitracks (or the 2020 one that I haven't recorded yet) for a bunch of trombones if anyone's interested.

If you are willing to do an arrangement that would be excellent! If it is something that has not been played a zillion times, that would be excellenter. Something in the 3-5 minute range with 8 or more parts would be perfect.

mahlertwo · Post by **mahlertwo** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:34 pm

Working on a Carol of the Bells arrangement now, if that's not too overplayed.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:34 pm

mahlertwo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:34 pm Working on a Carol of the Bells arrangement now, if that's not too overplayed.

Post by **BGuttman** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:13 pm

Love Carol of the Bells. Works nice as a round.

Every Christmas Carol is probably overplayed. Generally by Christmas Day I'm tired of all of them. But there are many who love them no matter how much they are played.

mahlertwo · Post by **mahlertwo** » Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:25 pm

I'm working in the themes from We Three Kings and Greensleeves to keep things interesting.

Finetales · Post by **Finetales** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:05 am

There are plenty of lovely Christmas carols that you never, or almost never, hear. "Bring a Torch, Jeannette, Isabella" is one of my favorites. "I Saw Three Ships", "Lo How a Rose E'er Blooming", "Masters in This Hall", and "The Holly and the Ivy" are woefully underplayed, and I would argue that "In the Bleak Midwinter" is far from overplayed as well.

I love Christmas and Christmas music so I never get tired of any of it, but there are some real gems that usually get overlooked.

mahlertwo · Post by **mahlertwo** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:58 pm

https://musescore.com/user/12682446/scores/6425950

First draft of Carol of the Bells.

Mikebmiller · Post by **Mikebmiller** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:58 pm

Whoa - I like that. Sounds like a Bach organ fugue. I might suggest that we take the tempo a bit slower than what you have in the MIDI. That would take some serious gymnastics for the basses.

So when you have that finished, upload a midi file with the tune and a click track. I can prepare a backup track with a count off to a group clap that precedes the MIDI and lets me synch up all the videos. We need to have people post up here as to what part they want to play. It's fine to have more than one on a part, but since there are 12 parts, let's cap it at 24 people total. That's about the max my video software can handle before choking to death.

I will post a link to a google drive folder where everyone can upload their videos.

A few tips for making a nice looking video that I have learned from doing a few of these:

- Find a spot to record without a lot of junk in the background

- Try to keep your music stand out of the shot. We want to see your face and your horn, not your stand.

- Use a tripod or get someone else to hold the camera/phone rather than just putting it on your stand.

- If you have something with a better mic than your phone, use that. Smart phone audio is acceptable, but not great.

- Wear something festive.

This will be a fun little project and I look forward to seeing what some of you guys look like.

mahlertwo · Post by **mahlertwo** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:55 pm

Second draft is up at the same link.
Also, made a sign-up sheet:

hyperbolica · Post by **hyperbolica** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:28 pm

Could you please make music available through some neutral format outside of musescore? Musescore is great for active arrangers, but not so much for casual or less often users. Pdf and mp3?

mahlertwo · Post by **mahlertwo** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:33 pm

I'm still tweaking it (although the parts are changing very little). Once I'm satisfied, I'll put up the pdf and wav files.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:22 pm

I just signed up. Let us know when the parts are good

MStarke · Post by **MStarke** » Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:08 am

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:22 pm I just signed up. Let us know when the parts are good

Same for me!
Signed up for the second alto - if someone else is really keen on that one, I am also happy to play tenor or bass.

Will need to figure out on how to record (and sync?) both audio (via an audio interface) and video (via mobile).
As I have never done that, any advice?

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:19 am

MStarke wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:08 am
harrisonreed wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:22 pm I just signed up. Let us know when the parts are good
Same for me!
Signed up for the second alto - if someone else is really keen on that one, I am also happy to play tenor or bass.

Will need to figure out on how to record (and sync?) both audio (via an audio interface) and video (via mobile).
As I have never done that, any advice?

You clap your hands when the backing track tells you to

That's what the clapper board you see in "making of" movies is for.

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:52 am

Is it possible to either give out both a click and non-click backing track (so I can use my own click/hiss sound and open back cans), or a midi version with the tempo data you're using?

I'm used to using a hiss instead of a click in my DAW and "detect tempo" or midi

nogginbone · Post by **nogginbone** » Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:47 am

I'd love to try and take part, but I'm a bit novicey.

You can keep the volume of my contribution down low so I don't spoil the sound. I've been trying to record myself, but finding it a challenge to keep in time to a click track. So I might not suceed also.

I understand if you're going for a more pro sound and being more selective, but I like the challenge of trying to do this.

nogginbone · Post by **nogginbone** » Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:57 am

Due to risk of people (ie probably me) not returning videos in time, can I sign up for a part that someone else is already doing?

I would really like to give this a go to push myself, but worried that I won't be able to do it to a good enough standard and/or in time.

mahlertwo · Post by **mahlertwo** » Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:33 am

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:52 am Is it possible to either give out both a click and non-click backing track (so I can use my own click/hiss sound and open back cans), or a midi version with the tempo data you're using?

I'm used to using a hiss instead of a click in my DAW and "detect tempo" or midi

I know nothing about how MIDI actually works. Not an audio person, purely a composer/arranger. Which is kinda funny, because I'm a computer engineering student, so I should know how it works, buuuuut... If I post the MIDI file with everything else, will that work for you?

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:47 am

mahlertwo wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:33 am
harrisonreed wrote: ↑Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:52 am Is it possible to either give out both a click and non-click backing track (so I can use my own click/hiss sound and open back cans), or a midi version with the tempo data you're using?

I'm used to using a hiss instead of a click in my DAW and "detect tempo" or midi
I know nothing about how MIDI actually works. Not an audio person, purely a composer/arranger. Which is kinda funny, because I'm a computer engineering student, so I should know how it works, buuuuut... If I post the MIDI file with everything else, will that work for you?

That would, as long as it is the same tempo as the other backing track(s). Thanks!!

Oh, is this project A=440?

I'm excited!

glenp · Post by **glenp** » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:58 am

I’d like to participate. I’m new to the forum, so my post might not show up for a few days.

I’m thinking 3rd, 4th, or 5th parts but am willing to play any tenor part. I’ll hold off on putting my name in the sheet until my post is visible.

Also, what tempo are we thinking? The current tempo is pretty fast for some of those triplets.

Mikebmiller · Post by **Mikebmiller** » Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:38 am

Mahler dude -

Thanks for doing this. I think it will be great.

It looks like the whole tune is in a straight tempo with no changes or ritards. That makes recording easy. When you have the final draft, send me an mp3 of the midi file. I can create a backup track with and/or without a click using Cakewalk. I will add a clap to the beginning of the track so that I can see the spike on the wav form to line up the video.

Depending on how much interest we get, we can have up to 2 players per part. If we don't get 24 people, some people can play more than one part.

For those of you who have not done this sort of thing before, here is the process:

I will post the backup track. Download it to your phone or other device. Then with another camera or phone, make a video of yourself playing whatever part you want while listening to the backup track. Label the file with your name (your actual name) and the part you are playing and upload it to here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

It has been my experience that Apple/Iphone people can't ever seem to figure out how to upload their files to Google Drive. If that is the case, you can put your video on Icloud and share it using a link.

I need a week or 2 to do all the editing, so if we could get the vides in by the end of the month, I can have it done well before Christmas.

mahlertwo · Post by **mahlertwo** » Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:40 pm

So do I need to include a click track, or can you make that with the MIDI?

Mikebmiller · Post by **Mikebmiller** » Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:52 pm

I can do it. Some people like a click and some don't, so I can do 2 versions.

mahlertwo · Post by **mahlertwo** » Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:26 pm

Parts, score, .wav and MIDI are available:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

harrisonreed · Post by **harrisonreed** » Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:31 am

Thank you. I'll start working on this immediately. A=440 right?