"Un" Soldering a bell?

[Ramhorn]

Hi all, I have a question. Would it be possible to unsolder a bell rim? I have a Bach bell that I would like to try it on if it is doable.
Thanks.

[Elow]

It’s probably doable. You would just need to heat it up and let the beads of solder pop up and wipe them. Make sure to wipe the solder away from you or your clothes, i wipe it into a sink. I’ve ruined my favorite pair or yeezys by just wiping it off and it landing on my shoe.

[bbocaner]

It's still going to be soldered, no? Just less excess in there. Perhaps heat it up and then blow around the bead with compressed air, then repeat over and over again. That's going to be very very messy, though!

[paulyg]

It's still going to be soldered, no? Just less excess in there. Perhaps heat it up and then blow around the bead with compressed air, then repeat over and over again. That's going to be very very messy, though!

High-pressure air, a torch flame, and molten solder? Nothing can go wrong!

FWIW I think there's a reason that Bach bells are not offered with unsoldered construction. If you're looking for a middle ground between a Conn Old-Style (two-piece unsoldered bell) and a Bach Style (one-piece soldered) there are plenty of bells out there with soldered two-piece construction (new Conns, lots of the popular Shires bells, ect).

It's hard to imagine what an unsoldered one-piece bell would play like. Perhaps there are some mad scientists on the forum who have tried it. I would think that it would be way too bright.

[Ramhorn]

Yes I am mainly curious to see what a one-piece unsoldered bell would sound like. Enjoying the comments so far. Thanks.

[harrisonreed]

It's still going to be soldered, no? Just less excess in there. Perhaps heat it up and then blow around the bead with compressed air, then repeat over and over again. That's going to be very very messy, though!

It's hard to imagine what an unsoldered one-piece bell would play like. Perhaps there are some mad scientists on the forum who have tried it. I would think that it would be way too bright.

Someone must've bought something like that at some point from Edwards or Shires back when they would make you literally anything you asked for. Like the dude who had shires put together a bass bone with the extra large red brass bell, red brass crooks, red brass slide....

Doesn't PC Parts Picker let you choose incompatible parts too?

[mrdeacon]

I'm sure the answer is yes you can though I don't personally know the process behind doing that.

The real question is why?

Bells are designed the way they are for a reason. I would expect a Bach bell convert to that spec to play terrible. If you were to have Edwards or another company spin you a one piece bell from scratch with proportions and weight to work with a unsoldered rim that's another story and I'm sure it could play great!

Moral of the story is don't bother. You'll probably end up sinking $1000+ into this project and end up with a bell you couldn't even give away.

[JoeStanko]

So much disinformation here..get the facts first.

[harrisonreed]

So much disinformation here..get the facts first.

I never get this post, and people post this a lot. At least call people out or try to set the record straight. Otherwise it just clouds the water further.

[BGuttman]

Soldering a rim wire is very difficult (if not downright impossible) to undo. Much easier to build it unsoldered in the first place. If you want to try an unsoldered Bach rim, get one before it has its rim wire soldered. But that makes comparison between soldered and unsoldered muddier because there are so many other factors that can show differences in how the two bells play.

[timothy42b]

But that makes comparison between soldered and unsoldered muddier because there are so many other factors that can show differences in how the two bells play.

Get two unsoldered bells and compare. I haven't done it but I'll bet they are different.

Then get two soldered bells and compare. Ditto.

There's a good chance the bell to bell variation is greater than the soldered to unsoldered.

[elmsandr]

Soldering a rim is a one-way street. Once it is in, its there.

Shires is your go-to if you want to compare one piece bells with and without solder (I think, they make some that way, 7 or 8 style). Does Edwards make one piece bells? They didn’t for a long time, I’m not aware of that changing, but haven’t looked in a long time.

To Tim’s note, I have played multiples from the Edwards catalog of the “same” bell soldered and unsoldered. I’d say that the main effect of the soldering is larger than the variance in the individual flares of the same style, but not by as much as it would seem given the conversations here. In a conference room with a horn that’s new to you, I’d give a good player better than even odds to pick out the soldered rims. I would not go as far as 75%, though. I would also not say that a listener on the other side would do as well. The effect as I perceive it is larger behind the bell than out front.

Cheers,
Andy

[bbocaner]

7 and 8 are two-piece that have been “thinned In the flare” to have some characteristics of one-piece bells. The 5 is the true one-piece which would make the number 6 the unsoldered version, but I’ve never heard of a 6.

[Kevbach33]

7 and 8 are two-piece that have been “thinned In the flare” to have some characteristics of one-piece bells. The 5 is the true one-piece which would make the number 6 the unsoldered version, but I’ve never heard of a 6.

Apparently type 8 bells are rather uncommon, even compared to type 2s that aren't the 2RVE. I'd imagine a type 6 bell would be a very special order. According to Shires, "One piece bells typically have more flexibility." However, "Unsoldered bead favors broad, wider, and more diffuse sound and softer, more covered articulations." Kinda undermines the purpose of a one piece bell by going too far, doesn't it? Or am I reading it too literally?

Yet the opposite is totally ok, the type 1 bell, a traditional two piece bell with soldered bead. Per Shires again, "Two piece bells tend to have great stability and density to core of sound. Soldered bead favors pointed articulations and centered sound, more stability to the sustain of tone." That's a lot of stability, and it works, though the type 7 tends to displace/replace it now.