Restoring/caring for raw brass inner slide on early 20thc trombone

[harpo]

I've recently acquired an early 20th century trombone from Vienna. This is for fun and a bit of a project to try to get it ship-shape again. (It has snakes and a kranz, which makes it a thing of beauty - so really playing the right notes, or any notes for that matter, is quite secondary!! )

The slides appear to be raw brass. I've cleaned the insides of the outer and the outsides of the inner with Hagerty https://www.thomann.de/gb/hagerty_coppe ... polish.htm Copper/Brass polish. They certainly are moving better, but I find that every time I get it moving, go away for a day, and come back then a wipe of the slide comes of with black tarnish.

Any suggestions/advice?

The slides are okay, but there is a small hole in one of the inners - it looks like a worn out or imperfect repair. It's not big enough to really affect the playing - not like a water key falling off for instance.

Slide_hole.jpg

My first stop will be the local instrument repair shop, but any other advice on maintaining an antique instrument like this would be very welcome!

[Bonearzt]

Easy first, the hole/crack in the inner probably won't affect anything until you move the outer beyond it.

The "tarnish" is typical of raw unprotected brass, and the residue is from the brass polish and the tarnish coming off from the remaining polish. This is a reason most of us techs don't recommend using such a polish on the slide tubes.
I think if you would use Trombotine or another cream, the tubes shouldn't tarnish so easily.
But again, that's the nature of raw brass.

Some pics of the entire horn especially the snakes would be cool!

Eric

[harpo]

Thank you. Already using trombonite, which I will continue to use, and it is getting cleaner. Will avoid polish now it has had it's first clean!

snakes2.jpg

bell.jpg

You can't (probably) read the writing on the bell int he photo. It says Anton Dehmal Nachfolger, which equates to Dehml's successor Franz Klimesch, who worked 1907 - c.1950.

I'll get some more photos on the next sunny day, but after these the camera ran out of battery.

The snakes are definitely smiling.

snakes.jpg

It's a dual bore (actually tapering all the way from .49" to .57" as measured inside at the top of the slide).
Floating slide brace, spring loaded slide barrels.

The only mouthpiece I have which fits is an unbranded small shank from my very first trombone, and it doesn't fit very well - i.e. is practically swallowed up by the trombone! I will get myself something that fits better in time.

[Bonearzt]

Very cool!

[LeTromboniste]

Nice. I was watching that one.

I use trombotine on my raw brass slides. It works better as lubrication on unplated metal than the liquid stuff (Slide o Mix or Yamaha), and it slows down tarnishing a lot. When you clean the tubes and reapply, I find it sometimes needs to be done a few times in a row, until the slide wipes off clear and not black or green, then do the final application of cream and spray with water and play.

[LeTromboniste]

For mouthpieces, German horns typically want something between large and small shank – the closest fit will be with a euro/medium shank. But they also don't usually react so well to the shapes and proportions of modern American style mouthpieces. Schmidt has a nice line of traditional German mouthpiece models based on designs from the early 20th century that is worth exploring. Here in Switzerland, Egger will probably be copying earlier mouthpieces (mid-1800s) as well that should work really well with traditional German trombones, but I don't know when that will become available.

[harpo]

Thank you - and most interesting. I was starting to come to the same conclusion re trombotine, but it is really nice to have it confirmed. I will persevere.

Any ideas or advice on repairing the small hole? My local repairer (who has only seen the photo) will take a look, but is worried about touching it at all in case it gets worse. My stream train enthusiast neighbour, while not offering to do anything himself, suggests that it should be an easy enough job to do if I can find the right person. The hole is so small that to be honest I know it is there from a visual inspection, but it doesn't affect the playing.

Re mouthpieces, I was looking at Schmidt, and also Breslmair. The latter wrote a research piece on a contrabass trombone made by the same manufacturer as my trombone, and in use with the VPO 1927-1995.

[Oslide]

I may be wrong, but isn't it so that in those early years the tubes for trombone slides were cut from sheet metal, rolled up, soldered to form a tube, and then drawn?

This 'hole' - and there seems to be another one above on the same line - looks to me like a section of the soldered seam of the tube that has come apart slightly. I wouldn't be worried too much about this.

[AndrewMeronek]

That's just a beautiful looking horn. I'd love to see more pics.

[JohnL]

This 'hole' - and there seems to be another one above on the same line - looks to me like a section of the soldered seam of the tube that has come apart slightly. I wouldn't be worried too much about this.

If it were a seam opening up, the crack would follow the seam. The lower crack in particular has got some curve to it - and not the sort of curve I would expect from a spiral-welded tube, either.

I figure those cracks are the combined result of wear, corrosion, and (possibly) cold work resulting from dent repair.

[harpo]

Thank you all - there's not "like" button, but "like-like-like" etc. on all your replies! I will post more pictures and update as I find out more. But at the moment we are suffering the nightmare of the insurance people phoning on Friday to say that they are arriving on Monday to redecorate most of the rooms in the house. So spent the day choosing one shower room, one ensuite, wallpaper, etc., and tidying. All trombones being put safely away. My wife is a harp teacher (hence my forum name) and has 25 small harps arriving tomorrow (from one of her schools, where they had been loaned out). Honestly it would make a great reality TV show! It will be total chaos!!!

[ssking2b]

I have a 1910 H N White "The King" trombone with brass slides. I used Wright's Brass Polish to clean the slides up, and then FLITZ to further clean and protect them. Finally I polish the slides up with non-abrasive car polish and goodbye black crap. The slides are slick, and good for about 3 months of use before I need to do it again.