When do you think you'll play with other people again?

samopn · Post by **samopn** » Mon May 25, 2020 5:20 am

I mean, playing whilst actual physically sitting next to someone.

I can't see it before next spring unless a vaccine is developed.

There's a bass player in one of my bands who is 90, and he doesn't think he'll ever play again.

What rubbish times....

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Mon May 25, 2020 7:13 am

My thoughts these days:

Who’d rent us rehearsal space? For years we rehearsed at a seniors centre. I’m sure that’s over.

Sit next to one another, indoors, huffing and puffing, spraying saliva? Not likely.

I don’t see getting together with other musicians until there’s an effective vaccine or treatment developed. Maybe never again.

hyperbolica · Post by **hyperbolica** » Mon May 25, 2020 7:34 am

Vaccine or treatment will be ready by the end of the year. It will take some time to distribute. We'll be playing certainly by this time next year. Maybe small groups can play on an outdoor patio. Quartet can get spaced out properly.

Two guys in my quartet are high risk, and I would hate to be the one that passed something on to them. I've been pretty careful, but it just takes once.

samopn · Post by **samopn** » Mon May 25, 2020 7:54 am

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 7:34 am Vaccine or treatment will be ready by the end of the year.

Not guaranteed... remember the common cold is a type of coronavirus and we haven't worked out a vaccine or treatment for that and we've been looking for the best part of century.....

hyperbolica · Post by **hyperbolica** » Mon May 25, 2020 8:05 am

samopn wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 7:54 am Not guaranteed... remember the common cold is a type of coronavirus and we haven't worked out a vaccine or treatment for that and we've been looking for the best part of century.....

Obviously no guarantees, but if you read the reports, there are multiple groups with positive interim results. I think there is room for an optimistic outlook.

samopn · Post by **samopn** » Mon May 25, 2020 8:29 am

I agree, always room for optimism.... otherwise I use my trombones as nice shiny plant pots

samopn · Post by **samopn** » Mon May 25, 2020 8:34 am

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 7:34 am Quartet can get spaced out properly.

... do you mean in the physical sense or the "60's" sense

? I'm all in favour of the 2nd option (in fact, some of the players I know are already there)

bigbandbone · Post by **bigbandbone** » Mon May 25, 2020 8:46 am

I'm 68 with underlying conditions. I was all set to buy another bass trombone this summer so one could be left ar our FL condo and no more checking through as baggage.
I'm holding off on that purchase. Not sure if or when live wind music, rehearsals or performances, will come back.

slipperyjoe · Post by **slipperyjoe** » Mon May 25, 2020 9:56 am

I'd give it at least a year once a society finally abandons wishful thinking and implements mass testing, contact tracing and issuance of N95/R95 respirators (with training) to all households and workplaces.

Vaccines within a year, reliance on cloth masks (https://tinyurl.com/y759lve9) and likely 6' minimum distancing are examples of wishful thinking.

Post by **BGuttman** » Mon May 25, 2020 10:40 am

slipperyjoe wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 9:56 am I'd give it at least a year once a society finally abandons wishful thinking and implements mass testing, contact tracing and issuance of N95/R95 respirators (with training) to all households and workplaces.

Vaccines within a year, reliance on cloth masks (https://tinyurl.com/y759lve9) and likely 6' minimum distancing are examples of wishful thinking.

I don't think N95 respirators are in the cards for everyone. They don't work properly with facial hair. Paper masks can keep me from infecting other people but won't protect me from some drunk Trumpian breathing heavily in my face.

I'm a prime candidate for terminal COVID, being over 70, overweight, diabetic, and hypertensive. Spending most of my time cooped up in the house.

We are planning for an orchestra season 2020-2021, but our Governor has yet to allow sports stadia or performing arts venues to open. None of my summer bands have shown any activity. In fact, Hollis NH has canceled the usual ceremony in the Town Square that I would normally play today.

I'm about 50% confident that we'll be playing live gigs before the end of the year.

Burgerbob · Post by **Burgerbob** » Mon May 25, 2020 10:42 am

2021.

norbie2018 · Post by **norbie2018** » Mon May 25, 2020 10:58 am

Optimistically speaking a vaccine won't be available until the 3rd quarter of 2021, at least according to Dr, Peter Hotez an epidemiologist who appeared on the Joe Rogan Experience. Granted, he is one scientist and other scientists have differing opinions, but I'd take the conservative approach. Expecting a vaccine that has been vetted and safe for human use by the end of the year is a pipe dream. If a vaccine or treatment is found it will take some time for people to feel comfortable being close to one another even after it has been widely distributed/available.

slipperyjoe · Post by **slipperyjoe** » Mon May 25, 2020 11:13 am

BGuttman wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 10:40 am I don't think N95 respirators are in the cards for everyone. They don't work properly with facial hair.

Correct.

This (issued 2017) made me chuckle:
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/Fa ... 17-508.pdf

and I shaved my beard. I'm now sporting a modified 'Zappa' which allows me to take care of necessary outdoor chores, while also taking steps to avoid my seriously COVID-delusional and intrusive immediate neighbors. I had a full beard for 35 years, so daily shaving is weird, but absolutely worth it. Better cleanish shaven than dead.

slipperyjoe · Post by **slipperyjoe** » Mon May 25, 2020 11:17 am

norbie2018 wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 10:58 am Optimistically speaking a vaccine won't be available until the 3rd quarter of 2021, at least according to Dr, Peter Hotez an epidemiologist who appeared on the Joe Rogan Experience. Granted, he is one scientist and other scientists have differing opinions, but I'd take the conservative approach. Expecting a vaccine that has been vetted and safe for human use by the end of the year is a pipe dream. If a vaccine or treatment is found it will take some time for people to feel comfortable being close to one another even after it has been widely distributed/available.

A pipe dream and an unrealistic campaign promise in the U.S.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Mon May 25, 2020 11:24 am

I can see playing soon in a small group (e.g., quartets, quintets) outside (patio, driveway, etc.) spaced 6-8 feet apart. Very little danger of exchanging virus in such situations. Not worried about "spewing" particles from my trombone bell. Remember that by far the greatest risk is extended person-to-person contact; VERY low probability of virus transmission from "contaminated" surfaces.

Playing in an ensemble indoors is another story. Count me out on that one. I don't anticipate doing that for 8-12 months – or possibly more. Fingers crossed for rapid development and broad distribution of an effective vaccine. Unfortunately, that's not a sure thing, so I'm trying to be patient and cautious. Spouse and I are in high-risk category (age), so unwilling to take chances. We wear masks whenever we are at all close to others, do not use masks on our daily walks for exercise and mental health because we maintain our distance.

hyperbolica · Post by **hyperbolica** » Mon May 25, 2020 12:29 pm

samopn wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 8:34 am
hyperbolica wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 7:34 am Quartet can get spaced out properly.
... do you mean in the physical sense or the "60's" sense ? I'm all in favour of the 2nd option (in fact, some of the players I know are already there)

Yeah, some of us are already kind of permanently spaced out.

dxhall · Post by **dxhall** » Mon May 25, 2020 6:33 pm

When I think of playing my horn in a group, I think of this fatal choir practice:

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-su ... nging.html

I think we’re a long way away. End of 2020 is a pipe dream.

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Tue May 26, 2020 2:05 am

Possibly never. No chance of the opera working before the end of September, but realistically next year may be the earliest chance and even then, without audiences filling the theatre, the finances don't add up... who knows, the opera may be finished and I won't be freelancing at my stage of life. The last thing I played was 'Nixon in China'... a funny and very tough thing to end up on.
Gotta hope things turn out better.....

Chris

SimmonsTrombone · Post by **SimmonsTrombone** » Tue May 26, 2020 4:06 am

My church small wind ensemble began rehearsals yesterday - outside in a member’s driveway. We were spaced apart. I’m not very concerned with this situation as I think the sunlight, temperature and constant breeze lower infection possibility greatly. Inside is another story. I wear the mask I wear for mixing chemicals with P95 filters and organic vapor filters.
On the bright side, the latest CDC report shows a much lower actual death rate than WHO had predicted, and researchers in the UK say they are not finding enough infected people to properly test a vaccine.

Conn100HGuy · Post by **Conn100HGuy** » Tue May 26, 2020 6:59 am

Five of us (2 trumpets, 2 horns and me on trombone) performed at our church last Sunday. With our county in Pennsylvania in the "yellow" phase of reopening as of 5/22, groups of 25 or fewer can get together. For that reason my big band will start rehearsing this coming Thursday. It's anybody's guess when we can perform again.

bigbandbone · Post by **bigbandbone** » Tue May 26, 2020 7:33 am

Burgerbob wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 10:42 am2021.

Could you be a little more specific!

bigbandbone · Post by **bigbandbone** » Tue May 26, 2020 7:43 am

FOSSIL wrote: ↑Tue May 26, 2020 2:05 am Possibly never. No chance of the opera working before the end of September, but realistically next year may be the earliest chance and even then, without audiences filling the theatre, the finances don't add up... who knows, the opera may be finished and I won't be freelancing at my stage of life. The last thing I played was 'Nixon in China'... a funny and very tough thing to end up on.
Gotta hope things turn out better.....

Chris

I know how it feels to think about "the last gig you played before COVID19" and remember it as a real stinker! I got a call to cover the bass book in a big band I had never heard of or played with before. Absolutely the worst big band I've ever played with! But the check didn't bounce.
I hope that's not my last gig ever!

samopn · Post by **samopn** » Tue May 26, 2020 8:08 am

Yes, I feel the same about "the last gig"

I used to play for a very long time in a local wind band and I left last year because I was sick to death of playing the same thing year after year after year (and sick of some of the internal politics, but that's a different matter!). They asked me to fill in with them for a gig the week before the lockdown and my heart sank when I saw the programme - same old thing.

And that's what I will remember, playing a boring gig with boring music that I could do with my eyes shut.

Funnily enough, this spring my diary was more full than it'd been for years so if the virus had held out for another month I'd have had a fantastic memory of "my last season"

... but let's be optimistic.

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Tue May 26, 2020 9:43 am

I hope I haven’t played my last gig. I just bought a new DE set up. (Very nice by the way!)

Cotboneman · Post by **Cotboneman** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:37 pm

I have serious concerns that many groups will be able to return to normal this year. I live in Arizona, which yesterday (June 2nd) reported over 1,000 Covid-19 hospitalizations, and that number is going to be going up. During the stay home order period there were strong indications that the pandemic had peaked here, but since the governor eased restrictions it has gone the opposite direction.

I play into two community groups, with members whose ages average well over 65, thought the orchestra has some younger players as well. These folks (including me) are highly vulnerable, so I do not know what management will do. I have to make some decisions either way whether or not I can participate in any of these groups. or gig this fall. That truly hurts my heart, but what else can be done? As wind players, we can't wear masks, and being socially distant (6 feet or more) is very impractical in the rehearsal spaces available, for many reasons. I know that I am not alone in feeling like 2020 might be a wash out musically for large ensembles.

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:45 pm

BC’s provincial health officer reported only 4 new cases and there were 207 active cases as of yesterday. 2,229 people have recovered.

I am thinking that maybe one of my groups might start up again in Sept if this progress were to continue.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:38 pm

The Dutch Music Association is writing a protocol using some German and Austrian research as a basis. They'll probably say it's safe to have a rehearsal with brass musicians, when they're 2 meters apart. The Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra already started. They also say that for choirs it's an different situation, they have a higher risk of spreading Covid-19. For a band with one/two singers it's advised to stay at least 8meter away while singing.

FWIW

8parktoollover · Post by **8parktoollover** » Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:00 am

I already am

KRRath · Post by **KRRath** » Thu Jun 04, 2020 9:47 am

Our brass quintet played at a VFW ceremony on Memorial Day. We were spaced apart six feet or more on the lawn on a hilltop overlooking the cemetery, which is in a valley that creates a natural amplification chamber (this creates a beautifully surreal effect when our trumpet player plays Taps). The ceremony was shorter than usual and everyone was observing social distancing. It's a small town so there aren't large crowds. Most of the audience listened from their vehicles.

Our quintet rehearses in a member's two-stall garage. We can be apart, yet still run through our gig books.

It looks like all four of the area summer community bands will be cancelling their seasons.

Mikebmiller · Post by **Mikebmiller** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:40 pm

My last gig was backing up an Elvis show at the Flat Rock Playhouse in N.C. the first week of March. It turns out we were the last show there for all of 2020. I am scheduled to play Sister Act in September, but the theater director has told me he doesn’t think it will happen. All my groups are on heold for now. Although the number of cases here is pretty low, it is holding steady and not going down. I am not counting on any real gigs for a long time.

imsevimse · Post by **imsevimse** » Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:53 pm

I had my last gig with a brass quartet the 21st of May in a church, or outside the church mostly. We also played two hymns inside the church from the organ gallery.

Yesterday two friends who are professional players asked me to play trios this weekend. We have done this for ages. We usually meet three to five players and play the repertoire we got, but I declined the offer. Except from the gig in the church I have been isolated since 17th March. I do not want to go by community train these days. I practice a lot at home with play-along.

A big band who rehearse on the net has asked me to join but as my internet connection is too slow I can not participate. I have ADSL by phone and you need fibre or else the lag is destroying the experience.

I think the possibilities to meet and play music on the net will increase. There will be better apps to support what we want to do. This is the positive about all this, but unfortunately it demands faster connection than the one I have.

/Tom

FOSSIL · Post by **FOSSIL** » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:14 am

We were told yesterday that there will be no mainscale opera until 2021. My company is looking at small projects and virtual performance later in the year.

Chris

Tromboned · Post by **Tromboned** » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:12 am

So I just had a socially distant compliant rehearsal last night with a community band. We practiced outdoors with everyone six feet apart. Rehearsals were typically two hours so they split the band in half with woodwinds the first hour and brass & percussion the second. We had about 25 people during the brass hour with the director. Masks were worn to and from our marked spots as well as between songs. Everyone had their own music copies that they either printed or scanned on iPads. Everyone also brought their own chairs & stands. It wasn't quite a normal rehearsal but it was nice to play with other people again.

LeTromboniste · Post by **LeTromboniste** » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:25 am

First rehearsals with colleagues since mid-March was yesterday and today. Feels really good to get started again, even if it's on a very small scale.

MStarke · Post by **MStarke** » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:11 am

The coming weekend I will have my first little gig.

It's a funeral in the family, so not really a happy event.
Still I am looking forward to playing some trumpet/trombone duos with my brother.

He did two simple arrangements (My Way and You Raise Me Up) and we also play a little from the Joe Alessi/Michael Sachs duet books.
As it takes place outside it won't be so much of an issue regarding distancing.

marccromme · Post by **marccromme** » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:39 am

We started practicing with a full brass band indoors in a small church room spread out over the floor last week, and continue so now. Quite different acoustic experience with 2 m to the next trombone or tuba, but great fun.

Conn100HGuy · Post by **Conn100HGuy** » Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:09 am

Our big band had booked a birthday party for last April before the virus hit the fan. Now that South Central PA has entered the "green" phase of reopening, we're going to be able to play after all! The setting will be outdoors (in a large party-type tent). Our birthday boy requested a big band and asked us to include 5 charts that he knows from his HS jazz band, including the ever-popular Sing, Sing, Sing. We've also asked him to join the band to play a few tunes with us. Pretty cool, huh?

slipperyjoe · Post by **slipperyjoe** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:18 am

“When you do testing to that extent, you’re going to find more people,” Trump said during the rally. “You’re going to find more cases. So I said to my people, ‘Slow the testing down, please.’”

(Trump denied today that he was kidding, "I don't kid.")

American exceptionalism was not supposed to mean this:

(cases per million people)

Identifying airborne transmission as the dominant route for the spread of COVID-19:
https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020 ... 2009637117
(full .pdf is available; a very readable journal article; scary stuff)

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:26 am

Fauci testified today that there is no direction to slow down testing.

Which begs the question: what colour is the sky in Trump’s world?

imsevimse · Post by **imsevimse** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:06 pm

I think I will play with "other people" tomorrow again for the first time since 21/5. We will meet in a garden and play jazz in a distance of 2 meters from each other. The weather will be very hot so it is not rain that could mess this up but sun. What about if it is too hot to be outside? They predict 32°C in the shadow, which means it could be unpleasant in the sun.

I hope we do this. It will be fun to meet and play jazz again.

/Tom

Post by **BGuttman** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:22 pm

One of my bands will have a reduced concert season starting in mid July. Sadly I cannot join them because I have developed cataracts and will be in the surgery cycle.

StevenC · Post by **StevenC** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:24 pm

imsevimse wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:06 pm I think I will play with "other people" tomorrow again for the first time since 21/5. We will meet in a garden and play jazz in a distance of 2 meters from each other.

How many musicians are in the group?

Cotboneman · Post by **Cotboneman** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:46 pm

I've played duet and trio "driveway" trombone practices and concerts this spring and throughout the pandemic, but it's been in open air and we space ourselves out. That's gone okay, but I don't see being in a confined space with an 80 piece ensemble in two and a half hour rehearsals for a long time. In the hot spot that Arizona has become. it is way too dangerous.

Cotboneman · Post by **Cotboneman** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:47 pm

BGuttman wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:22 pm One of my bands will have a reduced concert season starting in mid July. Sadly I cannot join them because I have developed cataracts and will be in the surgery cycle.

Please be well!

imsevimse · Post by **imsevimse** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:30 pm

StevenC wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:24 pm
imsevimse wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:06 pm I think I will play with "other people" tomorrow again for the first time since 21/5. We will meet in a garden and play jazz in a distance of 2 meters from each other.
How many musicians are in the group?

We are six of us. Trumpet, sax, trombone, piano, bass and drums

/Tom

slipperyjoe · Post by **slipperyjoe** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:45 pm

One thing United States public health officials and WHO are (purposely? purposefully?) neglecting to mention adequately, but is documented in published research, is that transmission of aerosolized viral particles is likely the predominant route of COVID infection. This means that the 6' / 2 meter social distancing standard is worthless. One aerosol expert suggested thinking about how far away one can smell barbecue or cigarette smoke outdoors. That's how far aerosols can travel. Outdoors.

Read the article (and references therein) that I referenced above.

Your gig may be your funeral. And possibly someone else's.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:03 pm

slipperyjoe wrote: ↑Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:45 pm One thing United States public health officials and WHO are (purposely? purposefully?) neglecting to mention adequately, but is documented in published research, is that transmission of aerosolized viral particles is likely the predominant route of COVID infection. This means that the 6' / 2 meter social distancing standard is worthless. One aerosol expert suggested thinking about how far away one can smell barbecue or cigarette smoke outdoors. That's how far aerosols can travel. Outdoors.

Of course cloth face coverings / masks / shields do not stop transmission of microscopic particles as small as barbecue odor, cigarette smoke –– or corona virus (all of which are much smaller than the "pores" in the cloth or gaps in the shield). The reason that these strategies work (and they seem to be pretty effective) is that transmission of sufficient virus to make you sick is load-dependent. As I understand it, you must get enough virus, over a period of time (probably not a very long time, however) to get sick from it. The tiny amount of aerosolized virus wafting gently in the air doesn't hit that critical quantity. But having an infected person breathe directly toward you (or worse yet cough or sneeze) from a close distance can be – literally – fatal.

I think Dr Fauci's advice is still valid (he follows it himself). Stay away from others if possible. When around others, wear a face mask and keep your distance (at least 6 feet / 2 meters). If someone is coughing, sneezing, or otherwise suffering – get the hell away from them. Fast!

Please all – be careful!

slipperyjoe · Post by **slipperyjoe** » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:42 pm

The 6' / 2 meter distance (in the U.S., it varies among countries) was based on COVID virus-laden exhalation droplets falling and presumably landing on a surface (e.g., the ground) within that distance and before reaching another person's respiratory system. It isn't realistic for many droplet scenarios including sneezing, coughing and likely just talking. It is nowhere near adequate for exposure via aerosols. From a cursory examination of recent research, it's clearly bullshit. You can be certain that your favorite public health officials know that it's bullshit.

Masks are presumed to reduce exposure by limiting atomization, and hence aerosol production, from individuals during exhalation. Aerosols (and droplets) escape through any gap between a mask and skin, but production may be reduced somewhat - apparently enough to be observed in data sets. Masks may not protect individuals during a particular scenario, but they may provide some protection for a population overall (which seems paradoxical, but that's what the data say).

Any gathering of people (e.g., gigs, rehearsals) is an aerosol producing event. People would have to be far more than 6' away to avoid aerosolized virus 'wafting gently in the air.' Assuming otherwise is wishful thinking. As we've seen in the U.S., wishful thinking continues to be deadly.

Basbasun · Post by **Basbasun** » Wed Jun 24, 2020 1:35 am

I played in a church yesterday. Trio, cornett tenorsax tuba (me on tuba playing walking) . Funeral of a very dear friend.

Bach5G · Post by **Bach5G** » Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:21 pm

I got an email this morning indicating that we are welcome to return to our rehearsal space in September. This is good news but also very surprising, as we rehearse in an out building the grounds of seniors center. I pointed out that my trombone is approximately 104 inches long. Therefore, the airflow has to travel nearly 8 1/2 feet before it leaves the bell. That seems to be appropriate social distancing