joining the "olds" crowd

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:16 pm

Very nice. Looks great. Those have a distinctive sound.

ttf_scottfsmith · Post by **ttf_scottfsmith** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:10 pm

Quote from: SBMaestro on Jul 19, 2015, 08:36AMI was curious if anyone out there has an Olds with a serial number lower than mine--or is this indeed the "oldest Olds?"

I have a 1xx but its a bigger xx than Robbs. The very early Olds trombones are interesting, there was a lot of evolution right at the beginning and then from SN ~500 through the whole TIS manufacture there were few changes. Along with not being dual-bore there are differences in the bell bore and in the sound, and the TIS mechanism is a bit different. The inners on mine look like later Olds instruments. Its interesting to play as a historical specimen but I don't play it very often. I'm going to sell it when I get around to it, I don't keep anything I'm not playing.

ttf_Douglas Fur · Post by **ttf_Douglas Fur** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:58 pm

CB56
The color shift is amazing. Is it so in real life or is this a photo effect? It looks like a high copper alloy. Does that contribute to the sound?
In another vein, I had attributed the "fillets" on the braces as a Reynolds detail. Does anyone know where they came from?
I ask because I bought a Reynolds Medalist off a forum member and I'm trying to sort out its pedigree. From its serial number, "Cleavland", RMC sheild and info of the Hornucopia and Contemporary Corner sites I think it's an early Medalist. C.C. suggests early Medalist were made by Blessing but it doesn't look Blessing. It looks totally Reynolds in detalis, fillets and Nikel silver bits.
I'm wondering what it's design antecedents are.
Any comments?
Duff

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:20 pm

Quote from: Douglas Fur on Aug 05, 2015, 01:58PMThe color shift is amazing. Is it so in real life or is this a photo effect? It looks like a high copper alloy. Does that contribute to the sound?Olds advertised the bell as "Re-O-Loy"; I suspect it's actually gold brass. The spacers in the braces appear to have a higher copper content (maybe red brass), as does some of the tubing on the f-attachment on R-20's.

QuoteIn another vein, I had attributed the "fillets" on the braces as a Reynolds detail. Does anyone know where they came from?The three-piece Recording brace is a modification of the one-piece Super brace. Olds patented it in 1938.

ttf_cb56 · Post by **ttf_cb56** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:16 pm

Just got back from picking up my second Olds Recording.
This one is a 1966 vintage.

Yes the color shift is pretty much as photographed. (The bottom darker picture is pretty spot on) I suspect Olds used a yellow tinted lacquer on these but don't know for sure. I was surprised when I removed the lacquer. I expected a more brownish red tint to the raw brass. Maybe after the raw brass tarnishes a bit it will look more like I expected. Either way it's a beautiful horn.

I'll probably leave the lacquer on the '66 because it's in pretty good shape.
I didn't notice a huge difference in the tone after I removed the lacquer. Maybe a bit brighter?

Right now the '66 is soaking in the tub. I'll do some side by side comparison tomorrow and get a picture of the two side by side for lacquer/no lacquer comparison.

ttf_cb56 · Post by **ttf_cb56** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:30 pm

Picked up a nice Olds 3 and Holton 80A in the deal also.

ttf_Bret Steed · Post by **ttf_Bret Steed** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:19 am

I just acquired a FREE 1974 Olds Recording with F attachment from an 80 year old women I work with

The horn is in great shape and plays very well. The best part is the F attachment - Its unbelievably open! Low D down to low C really pop with ease... I was not expecting that from this horn with its flat wrap and smallish bore size

It pretty ridiculous...in a good way

The horns intonation is great. The horn, although it may be small, shares a lot of similarities to my Elkhart 8h I had a few months ago and a Williams 8 I played a few months ago as well... It's just an awesome horn!

ttf_Bret Steed · Post by **ttf_Bret Steed** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:30 am

I'm so happy with this Olds Recording... I had a really nice Los Angeles Super years ago that responded well and had a great sound, but it played soooooo flat that first position was tuned to A instead of Bb

That kinda put a bad taste in my mouth for Olds, but this Recording has redeemed the Olds company for me

ttf_cb56 · Post by **ttf_cb56** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:41 am

Cool. Nothing like an Olds. Some folks love them others hate them.
One of these days when I have some cash, I'm going to go looking for an F att. bell for my Recording(s)
just in case I ever need one. (Usually don't)

ttf_cb56 · Post by **ttf_cb56** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:45 am

Oh, here are my two bell sections side by side one lacquered one not.
Photo doesn't do justice. There's a bigger difference when viewing in person.
The one on the left has the lacquer. I'll try to get a better picture (Maybe outside) later

ttf_Bret Steed · Post by **ttf_Bret Steed** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:51 am

Quote from: cb56 on Aug 06, 2015, 07:41AMCool. Nothing like an Olds. Some folks love them others hate them.
One of these days when I have some cash, I'm going to go looking for an F att. bell for my Recording(s)
just in case I ever need one. (Usually don't)

Well, I'm VERY impressed my the F attachment, so if you get the chance to buy one, I think you'll enjoy it! - The horn plays wide open! I owned a straight LA Recording about 3 years ago... That horn played very well, but this horn seems a bit more refined. This will definitely become my "go to" pit horn, 3rd bone, (big band) and bass bone for light big band bass parts!

ttf_cb56 · Post by **ttf_cb56** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:24 am

Brett,
I owned an Olds Superstar a few years ago with the same wrap and loved the way it played. I sold it to a buddy of mine that was in need of a new horn. He still plays it and loves it.

Tuning Issues: Every Olds horn that I have owned plays flat. This morning I did a little experiment. With the tuning slide pushed in all the way both of my horns play middle Bb in tune at 439. Of course that is only going to effect a few notes since anything out of 1st position can be adjusted. Is the difference between 440 and 439 enough of a difference to hear? IDK? Check for yourself http://onlinetonegenerator.com/frequency-sweep-generator.html

BTW just tested my Olds 3 against the Blessing 7C in both my horns. Even though the Olds 3 goes further into the horn they both play pretty much the same tuning wise. Both in tune at 439vps. I like the Bigger tone of the Blessing so I think I'll just keep using them. Was thinking about shaving the shank down on one but dunno if it's worth the effort now.

ttf_Bret Steed · Post by **ttf_Bret Steed** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 8:29 am

Yeah, remembering the tuning issues I had with my LA super, the first thing I did with this Recording was put it in front of a tuner. This particular horn plays in tune with the tuning slide about a half inch out, which is consistent with all of my other horns...

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:07 pm

These tuning issues...
I've never had a problem with tuning.

T.

ttf_cb56 · Post by **ttf_cb56** » Thu Aug 06, 2015 12:38 pm

Quote from: tsmart on Aug 06, 2015, 12:07PMThese tuning issues...
I've never had a problem with tuning.

T. I've seen some of your old posts saying that. Have you tried using a tuner to open Bb?

I've owned 6 (I think) Olds trombones and they've all been the same. Not a huge issue, just push in tuning slide all the way in and you're pretty much there.

ttf_Arrowhead99 · Post by **ttf_Arrowhead99** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:21 pm

I have an Olds Recording trombone, made in L.A.
I tried posting pics of the horn but I kept getting the "an error has occurred" message....
I LOVE this horn. I love the big open sound it has.
When I bought it (I think from some guy thru Yakaz or something) it didn't have a counterweight so I sent it off to Cayuga Music in New York and they had a custom made counterweight made for me, which looks eerily similar to the Oregon Ducks logo; I don't mind it though.
I noticed an anomaly with the serial numbers. The SN on the beginning of the gooseneck is 132251; however, the SN on the slide reads 132250- a difference of "1!"
1954?
Does it mean the bell and slide are from two different horns or do they use a successive numbering system?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:49 pm

I can't answer your question, but for the pictures issue:

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,75147.0.html

ttf_Douglas Fur · Post by **ttf_Douglas Fur** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:31 pm

Quote from: Arrowhead99 on Sep 02, 2015, 07:21PMI have an Olds Recording trombone, made in L.A.

I noticed an anomaly with the serial numbers. The SN on the beginning of the gooseneck is 132251; however, the SN on the slide reads 132250- a difference of "1!"
1954?

That sounds more like a mix up at the factory two parts next to each other and the wrong one gets grabbed.
DRB

ttf_JimArcher · Post by **ttf_JimArcher** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:43 pm

Quote from: Arrowhead99 on Sep 02, 2015, 07:21PMI have an Olds Recording trombone, made in L.A.
I tried posting pics of the horn but I kept getting the "an error has occurred" message....
I LOVE this horn. I love the big open sound it has.
When I bought it (I think from some guy thru Yakaz or something) it didn't have a counterweight so I sent it off to Cayuga Music in New York and they had a custom made counterweight made for me, which looks eerily similar to the Oregon Ducks logo; I don't mind it though.
I noticed an anomaly with the serial numbers. The SN on the beginning of the gooseneck is 132251; however, the SN on the slide reads 132250- a difference of "1!"
1954?
Does it mean the bell and slide are from two different horns or do they use a successive numbering system?
Prior to WW II Olds serial Nos. didn't match, I can picture a manufacturing line of bells and slides, same model, but slightly different Nos. I have a 1935, 1936 pre-Super that's like that. Yours is ca. 1954 and just the one digit off.

[Olds made counterweights specifically for the Recording, an aftermarket option. I tried for sev. years to locate one (you'd think an old repair shop somewhere in the US would have one); there've been a couple on eBay over the years, sold for >$100 as I recall.]

(Fixed quote)

ttf_SBMaestro · Post by **ttf_SBMaestro** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:39 am

A point of clarification--early Olds trombones MAY or MAY NOT have slightly differing serial numbers on their slide and bell sections. I have 3 very early Olds trombones, and all 3 have matching serial numbers. For those who have slightly different serial numbers on their bells as compared to their slides, keep in mind that early on, Olds offered "S"(mall), "M"(edium), and "L"(arge) variants (and "ML" for Medium Large, I believe, as well) for both the slide and bell sections, and those letters would be stamped on the slide and bell sections, right next to the serial number.

So it seems likely that if the original purchaser wanted a "L" slide with a "M" bell, Olds would simply grab whatever was in their inventory and put them together, whether the serial numbers matched or not. I don't know how long this practice continued, but keep in mind that Olds made over 1 million instruments by the time the original facilities closed down in the late 1970s.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:18 pm

The less common sizes (S, SM, L, and SYM) usually have matching numbers; those horns were made in much smaller quantities. The high-volume sizes (M's and LM's) frequently don't have matching numbers; in fact, the majority of the ones I've seen don't match.

I don't have enough data to be definitive, but I have a suspicion that one is more likely to find matching numbers in the earlier serials.

ttf_boneheaded518 · Post by **ttf_boneheaded518** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:02 pm

I just picked up an Olds Ambassador off of eBay for $30. I've always liked vintage horns and it should be fun to have this one all fixed up. Anyway, it seems to me from what I've read that the general consensus is that the Super, Recording, Studio, etc models are more popular than the Ambassador. So those of you that have played Olds more than I have, what do you think? How does the Ambassador stack up? Also, my Ambassador is all silver with the gold wash on the inside of the bell. Was that very common for them to produce? I haven't heard of any like that before

Forgive me if these are silly questions...

ttf_cb56 · Post by **ttf_cb56** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:14 pm

The ambassador was the student line by olds. That being said, they are very good if you don't mind a somewhat heavy horn. Imo they play similar to the super. A silver plated ambassador with a gold wash bell? Oh yeah, that's a keeper.

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:34 pm

Quote from: boneheaded518 on Sep 03, 2015, 04:02PMI just picked up an Olds Ambassador off of eBay for $30.
This one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/391228634743

QuoteAnyway, it seems to me from what I've read that the general consensus is that the Super, Recording, Studio, etc models are more popular than the Ambassador.More popular? There's way more Ambassadors out there than any other Olds. The pro models are certainly more collectible.

QuoteAlso, my Ambassador is all silver with the gold wash on the inside of the bell. Was that very common for them to produce? I haven't heard of any like that beforeThat was a popular finish at one time, though it had kinda fallen out of style by the post-WWII era. I don't recall ever seeing an Ambassador with that finish.

ttf_Arrowhead99 · Post by **ttf_Arrowhead99** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:53 pm

I've had Olds' with matching serial numbers and others that were wildly different, so I was always curious....

I've heard through the grapevine that Earl Williams was the one who invented the fluted slide but couldn't get credit for it on the patent because he was an employee of the company. I don't know how long he worked for the Olds company, but it's interesting to think that maybe at one time he had his hands on a lot of the horns.

I have an interesting cameo look on my Recording. I guess it's the type of brass they used that over time gives that effect, or maybe it just needs to be polished with a rag, lol.

The Olds Ambassador- I had one (Fullerton) and I donated it. I thought it was really nice for a student horn.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:58 pm

i found a nice one with zero dents or scratches. i cant seem to find out what the silver is. nickel? chrome?

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Sun Sep 06, 2015 11:19 pm

Quote from: barking on Sep 06, 2015, 10:58PMi found a nice one with zero dents or scratches. i cant seem to find out what the silver is. nickel? chrome?Silver was an option on Ambassadors. Never heard of one being nickel plated (nickel plate was a standard finish on Studios and Specials at one time). Chrome? Not likely - though Olds did chrome plate some bugles back in the day, so it is possible they might have chromed an Ambassador or two at some point.

ttf_barking · Post by **ttf_barking** » Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:59 am

reason i ask is because it doesnt really look like silver plate and it doesnt look like chrome.maybe its not an ambassador. i didnt look for a name, just going by what he said.anyway,i should have it later today and then i will post some pics. i couldnt find a single dent on this horn. the guy took really good care of it. i think i am also gonna get that 3b silversonic and have it fixed up a little. this olds will be just fine in the mean time. i can also play the old getzen too LoL.

ttf_barking · Post by **ttf_barking** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 2:39 am

cant seem to get pics on this thread. anyway, this horn is as new. early 70 s silverplate olds ambassador with f att. plays great. doesnt seem like a student model. my friend who played it liked it alot too. he has some nice horns. not a ding or dent or scratch anywhere. this guy took very good care of it. played it through college and played for years with the jazz band at Hill AFB too. very careful guy . $200 seems ok. the guy who got his for 30 did better but no f att. LoL.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 3:16 am

Pictures:

http://tromboneforum.org/index.php/topic,75147.0.html

ttf_barking · Post by **ttf_barking** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 6:44 am

do i need to have a certain # of posts to attach a photo? i would rather attach than use photobucket and a url.

does anyone know what the bore is on an ambassador with the f att. ?

ttf_Euphanasia · Post by **ttf_Euphanasia** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:42 am

Quote from: barking on Sep 08, 2015, 06:44AMdo i need to have a certain # of posts to attach a photo? i would rather attach than use photobucket and a url.

does anyone know what the bore is on an ambassador with the f att. ?

The forum only allows you to attach links. No one can post photos directly.

The Ambassador F-Att is .495/.510 if it has the original slide.

What's odd is that an F-Att Ambassador in silver plate is a "Superstar." Even down to the color, which is silver plate with a clear coat on it so it looks a bit darker than plain silver. Is yours engraved "Ambassador"?

ttf_barking · Post by **ttf_barking** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 7:58 am

yes it is. the horn sounds great i might add. what is a superstar? was my ambassador a good buy for $200?

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:07 am

A working A-20 for $200 is a steal.

SuperStar is a "step-up" horn. It differs from the Ambassador in having round braces and the F-attachment has two tuning slides (you need both for an e-pull). Later Ambassadors also had the two tuning slides, although mine didn't (it was a Los Angeles).

I mentioned in the thread I linked to that you can post pictures to the Gallery and link to them there. The Gallery limits you to a picture up to 768 pixels wide by 1024 pixels high (don't ask me why only portrait is OK).

I have resized pictures for other people and I'd be happy to do it for you; you need to send me the pictures via e-mail and be patient -- I only have one laptop with the resizing software And I don't use it all the time. E-mail is [url=mailto:[email protected]][email protected][/url] (which forwards to my personal e-mail, so if you get a reply from somebody else it may be me).

ttf_JohnL · Post by **ttf_JohnL** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:18 am

Quote from: barking on Sep 08, 2015, 07:58AMwhat is a superstar?He's talking about the model V-20 SuperStar trombone. Take an A-20, put different braces on it, silver plate it, and you've got a V-20.

For comparison purposes, in 1978, a V20 listed for $625 and a silver plated A-20 would have cost $570 ($495 plus $75 for the silver plate).

ttf_barking · Post by **ttf_barking** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:25 am

maybe this will work

the horn has 2 tuning slides on the attachment. sn 945***

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:32 am

Quote from: barking on Sep 08, 2015, 08:25AMmaybe this will work[img]http://

[/img][img]http://

[/img]

Tags have to be nested. I think you want it to look like this:

Code:

Let's see what I can do with your pictures:

ttf_barking · Post by **ttf_barking** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:35 am

i got it now. works different than the other forum i am on. so the inner slide tubes are different sizes? duo bore ? i got a couple of nice bach mouthpieces with it and several mutes. the case is in great shape too. this will be a decent spare horn for when i have my silversonic done.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:47 am

The engraving looks rather late. I hope John Lowe can date it better. Yup. Great horn to use as a backup or when you are on hazardous duty (like parades or bar gigs). One parade I showed up and the tuba player didn't so I played tuba parts on the Ambassador. Had to blow my a** off, but it sorta worked.

ttf_barking · Post by **ttf_barking** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:54 am

i think the guy said 74 or 75.music trader seems to agree.

ttf_cb56 · Post by **ttf_cb56** » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:58 am

Nice horn. I had a V20 Superstar that I wish I would have kept. It had 2 tuning slide for the F tubing and one for the whole horn.

Your Ambassador

My old V20 Superstar.

ttf_barking · Post by **ttf_barking** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:18 am

my ambassador came with an olds 1 mouthpiece. should i try an olds 3 mouthpiece? i am currently using a bach 6 1/2 al. i havent settled on any mouthpiece , ive only heard that some people like their olds better with an olds mouthpiece.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 1:27 pm

The Olds 3 mouthpiece was designed for a straight horn. The Olds 1 was a little bigger to work better with the larger Ambassador with F.

I used a Bach 4C on my Ambassador with F (it was the largest mouthpiece I could get in small shank). H9 reason why a 6.5AL couldn't work.

ttf_watermailonman · Post by **ttf_watermailonman** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:03 pm

Quote from: barking on Sep 20, 2015, 02:18AMmy ambassador came with an olds 1 mouthpiece. should i try an olds 3 mouthpiece? i am currently using a bach 6 1/2 al. i havent settled on any mouthpiece , ive only heard that some people like their olds better with an olds mouthpiece.

Yes I have read that too. I wonder why?

I have three S-15, one R-15 and one R-20 add two older with TIS. To me they ALL sound better with lighter mouth pieces, that is mouthpieces with less mass.

I have an Olds 3. It works but I'm not particularly happy with that one.

/Tom

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 3:40 pm

I have the opportunity to pick up an Olds Super. Not exactly sure what it's vintage is, but it has the nickel tone ring around the bell. The seller wants to sell it for $150. Would that be a considered a "steal"? Also, are there any typical issues I should be looking for when it comes to Olds trombones?

ttf_cb56 · Post by **ttf_cb56** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:06 pm

Yes that's a steal of a deal if it's in good condition.
IMO Olds tend to play flat especially with non Olds mouthpieces (Others will disagree)
Both of mine are in tune with the tuning slide all the way in.

Played my Olds Recording on a few Dixie gigs this weekend. Love it!

ttf_Synth · Post by **ttf_Synth** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:57 pm

I actually play an ambassador for jazz, and I've noticed the tuning issues before. I make it work with my Conn 3, though.

ttf_barking · Post by **ttf_barking** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:12 pm

any fix for a olds that plays flat ?

ttf_cb56 · Post by **ttf_cb56** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 7:23 pm

Tuning slide all the way in.

ttf_Euphanasia · Post by **ttf_Euphanasia** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:39 pm

Quote from: Synth on Sep 20, 2015, 03:40PMI have the opportunity to pick up an Olds Super. Not exactly sure what it's vintage is, but it has the nickel tone ring around the bell. The seller wants to sell it for $150. Would that be a considered a "steal"? Also, are there any typical issues I should be looking for when it comes to Olds trombones?

That's a good deal, provided that it plays well. Check for wear on the inner slides. The inners should have ridges on them along the legs before you get to the stockings. If not, the inners have been replaced. Other than that, typical trombone stuff. Make sure the slide is smooth and there are no significant dents, especially in the outer slide. The outers are nickel and can be difficult to work on.